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kraftiekortie
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19 Jan 2022, 8:46 am

I don't know of many Jews like that.....I used to know a few of those, and I disagreed with them wholeheartedly. You don't find many of these "pitiable" Jews nowadays, primarily because most did not experience the trauma some Jews of a few generations in the past did.

I don't believe in total pacifism----but I believe in exhausting all diplomatic channels before I engage in violence.



Fireblossom
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19 Jan 2022, 11:10 am

With the direction this topic has taken, I don't think it's appropriate for the Haven. PPR would be a better place for this.



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19 Jan 2022, 11:20 am

I can't help but thinking that this could happen in America unless all Americans cut their ties with the orange man and his goons. Instead of the brown shirts maybe his followers could be the orange shirts?



kraftiekortie
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19 Jan 2022, 11:54 am

In any natural sense, Kristallnacht will evoke a significant response. How can it not evoke one?



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19 Jan 2022, 11:58 am

QFT wrote:
I just ran onto Kristallnacht in one of my google searches, and this reminded me of the first -- and probably the only -- time I heard of it. I was walking down the campus of University of Michigan (which means I was between ages 24 and 29 since thats when I was doing my first ph.d. there) and some girl stopped me and invited me to some event about Kristallnacht. I asked her what the heck it is, she explained it to me. Apparently I was too busy with whatever else I was doing, so I never came.

Now, this vivid memory reminds me once again of the fact that I wish I was younger. You see, when I walk down the campus nowdays, nobody ever invites me anywhere. And if anyone would, it would be men, certainly not women. Women seem to avoid even say hello to me. But that woman, on the other hand, approached me. And also apparently she knew I was Jewish. But nowdays nobody knows I am anything except for the weirdo. I just wish I could go back in time and feel accepted again. Too bad I didn't go to her Kristallnacht event or whatever. I don't know why I was missing all those opportunities at the exact time when I was spending all those hours on dating sites.


I am also Jewish and I had a similar experience in 6th grade where I had the chance to attend a production of "The Diary of Anne Frank" and I turned it down. Luckily, I have since learned a lot about her and about the holocaust. I believe you have plenty of time to learn about "Kristallnacht" and especially in a few weeks.



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19 Jan 2022, 11:59 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't know of many Jews like that.....I used to know a few of those, and I disagreed with them wholeheartedly. You don't find many of these "pitiable" Jews nowadays, primarily because most did not experience the trauma some Jews of a few generations in the past did.


I do see your point that a lot of individual Jews are no longer like that. I was more talking about Jewish traditions. I guess non-whiny Jews following whiny traditions is part of the NT phenomena that occurs both among Jews and non-Jews alike: people have herd mentality, so they do something because other people do it, even if they don’t share the feelings that originated it.

That girl I talked about in OP is a good example of it. Her whole tone was as if she talked about a normal social event. I didn’t even know it is anything negative until I asked her to explain what it means. And even when she was explaining she wasn’t crying either — unlike people of older generation that would. Yet here she was doing it.

Now the reason I make a big deal out of it is that it extends buying just once in a year events. Look at the fact that 80% of Jews vote Democrat. That too can be traced to their persecution complex. From rational point of view they should vote Republican at least for three reasons:

8 ) Republicans are more supportive of Israel than democrats are

9) A lot of Jews are rich and Republicans support rich

10) The moral values that Republicans support (anti-gay, anti-abortion,etc) are coming from Old Testament

Yet, despite those three things, Jews vote Democrat. That’s because

11) Jews see themselves as a persecuted minority, and democrats support persecuted minorities

So the fact that 80% Jews vote Democrat shows that point 11 outweighs point 8, which is precisely what I am trying to point out.

Now, if I ask most secularized Jews why they vote Democrat, they wouldn’t mention 11. Instead, they would cite reasons unrelated to Jewishness. But to me that just shows that it *is* 11, it is just that it’s been suppressed on subconscious level. I mean let’s say those reasons are X, Y and Z, let’s say they have nothing to do with Jews, and let’s say they are extremely convincing. Well, why don’t 80% of non-Jews vote Democrat because of X, Y and Z? Why is it only 80% of Jews that do that? So the fact that on the surface those reasons are not related to Jewishness, yet statistically they are, shows that there is something subconscious going on.

Are Jews preachy about voting Democrat? For the most part, no. My moms former landlord was Jewish and he wasn’t pushing any liberal views on anyone. Yet here he was, voting democrat. If I look just at him, I would say he didn’t do it because he is a Jew, he did it for unrelated reasons. If I look at a lot of other Jewish individuals, I could say the same thing. But it I put them all together, I get a statistics, and I can’t overlook statistics. So maybe some of them are Democrat due to things truly unrelated to Jewishness. But then there have to be others whose reasons *are* related to Jewishness, they are just very well suppressed. There are have to be those kinds of Jews to amount for said statistics. Who are they? I don’t know, since apparently they do good job in suppressing it. Was my moms former landlord one of them? I don’t know. But they have to be out there to account for the statistics.

Speaking of my moms former landlord, he didn’t care about Jewishness either. In fact he liked to mock Jewish traditions in a friendly way. Yet it just happened that all of his friends happened to be Jewish. A lot of them didn’t care about their Jewishness any more than he did.
So why did it just happen that they were all Jews? I guess one contributing factor is that he was a math professor and his friends were math professors too. Jews are statistically over-represented in academia. But that doesn’t fully explain it. What I mean by Jews being over-represented in academia is that in general US population only 2% are Jews but in academia it’s 30% (by the way I don’t know whether it’s 20%, 30% or 50%, I just pulled the number out of the air; I do know that it’s 2% in overall population though) Now, why did my moms former landlord befriend those 30% instead of befriending the other 70%? Now he had a large circle of friends, probable few dozen. All fall into those 30% Yet he said he didn’t care about Jewishness So why would he say he didn’t care about Jewishness, yet his statistical choices indicate that he did? That’s why I say it’s something subconscious

Or another example is my father. Both of my parents are Jewish. My mother always knew she wanted to marry a Jew. So the fact that she married a Jew is no surprise. But my father always said that Jewishness didn’t matter to him, neither in terms of whom he marries, nor in any other respect. So if he didn’t care about Jewishness, why did he marry my mother? You see, he wasn’t in academia. So in his surrounding 98% were non-Jews and only 2% were Jews. Why did he pick someone out of 2% if he doesn’t care about Jewishness? He claimed he married my mom because he liked her personality. But that doesn’t address this statistical question that I just pointed out.

As far as my fathers political views — unlike American Jews — he actually sympathized with Republicans. But you have to keep in mind that it’s only American Jews that statistically vote Democrat. For Russian Jews it is common to vote Republican. Seeing that my dad lived in America for only 3 years, didn’t even learn English properly and then returned back to Russia, he fits quite well with the Russian Jewish statistics. Now, one trait that Russian Jews *do* share with the rest of the Jewish community is dislike of Putin. And my father shared that trait too. As a matter of fact, my father hated Putin right away, while for my mom and my grandma (moms mom) it took a while to get there. And also my father was a lot more strongly opposed to my returning to Russia than my mother. And that’s despite the fact that my mother and her mother (my grandma) both care about Jewishness more than my father.Now, keep in mind: statistically it is Jews who dislike Russia and Putin so much. If you look at Russians who aren’t Jewish, they tend to be proud of Putin. Not all I guess, but they usually won’t hate them on the level of my dad. So why did my dad share a Jewish trait of hating Russia and Putin if he didn’t care about Jewishness? That again shows that his Jewishness runs on subconscious level rather than conscious.

Now you can give me all the reasons in the world as to why one *should* hate Putin, but they wouldn’t address the question why Jews hate him more than non-Jews. If you say one should hate Putin because Putin is a dictator, why don’t Russian non-Jews hate him for that reason? Yet this is precisely the reason Russian Jews cite. I am yet to hear any Russian Jew say they hate Putin because he is an antisemite. If anything, I heard they thanking him for fighting against antisemitism. What they say they hate him for is that he is a dictator. But then why don’t Russian non-Jews hate the dictator?

You see what I am getting at. There is something subconscious that make the Jews act as Jews even if on the conscious level they won’t acknowledge it. That’s why Jews are more opposed to Putin despite not being able to state any Jewish-related reasons, and that is also why my dad joined them despite claiming not to care about his own Jewishness to begin with.

Now if upyou ask me how it relates to the other point I was making, here is how. My claim is that Jews have persecution complex. This implies that they would be a prime victims of any dictator. So that would explain why they would be more scared when Putin acts like one. Now, as you said, most of the Jews today don’t go around whining. My dad certainly didn’t. Yet he shared the political views that can be traced to that. So that’s the point I am making.

And then the other Jewish trait is Jewish mother. Again overprotective nature of Jewish mother can be traced to the history of Jewish persecution. Now some Jewish mothers might not share those traits, but my mom certainly does. Probably even more than other Jewish mothers because the other factor that comes into play is that I have Asperger and yet another factor is that I am the only child. I think it’s those three things feeding into each other. If you have a Jewish mother with NT child, she would be more overprotective than non-Jewish moms but still a lot less over-protective than my mom. If you have aspire child with non-Jewish mother then their mother might respond to Asperger with neglect as opposed to over-protection (I remember people on wrong planet complaining about their neglectful parents and wishing I could trade places with them). But if you have a Jewish mother and an aspire child then these two things feed into each other and you get the suffocating relationship that I am in.

Now, back to the topic I talked about. If you focus on my moms Jewishness being a factor, you will see something interesting. Because my mom is Jewish, she spoiled me. As a result of being spoiled, here I am on Wrong Planet complaining. So when I am complaining, I am “acting Jewish” without meaning to. Most of the girls I complained about weren’t Jewish (I don’t have anything against dating a Jew, it’s just that statistically I am more likely to run onto non-Jew). So on the surface there is nothing Jewish in my desperation to date them. Yet the trait of desperation is still a Jewish trait, since it can be traced to being spoiled by my Jewish mother. Just something interesting to think about.



kraftiekortie
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19 Jan 2022, 12:05 pm

Desperation occurs within all ethnic groups. I don't find it to be a particularly "Jewish" trait.

Self-deprecating humor is a Yiddish theater trait. I believe it stems from a certain fatalism which happens when an ethnic/religious group is in a diaspora situation.

I understand you have regrets that you didn't talk more to this woman who invited you to a Kristallnacht-related event. I have these sorts of regrets, too. I once liked a librarian in Maine. We struck up a nice conversation. She gave me her number----but I lost it (like an idiot!)

The way I figure it: It's in the past. I might have regrets----but I wouldn't let it ruin my day.



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19 Jan 2022, 1:13 pm

Aspinator wrote:
I can't help but thinking that this could happen in America unless all Americans cut their ties with the orange man and his goons. Instead of the brown shirts maybe his followers could be the orange shirts?


Trump seems to like Jews. He has Jews in his family and he moved US embassy to Jerusalem. In fact I remember in one of his speeches where he told dark-skinned foreigners to go back to where they came from, he mentioned that they hate Jews. So if he mentions hatred of Jews as a negative, this logically implies that he doesn’t hate them. Of course you don’t like the fact that he hates people of color (as evident by that very talk). But let’s give a credit where it’s due: he doesn’t hate Jews.

Now, that very assumption that he hates Jews also proves my point. Because the underlying assumption behind this is that Jews are one of the minorities: so if he hates minorities, he must hate Jews too. But why assume that Jews are the minority? I mean there are more non-British than there are British, yet British don’t have a minority status. Yet Jews do. That’s one example of the persecution complex I am talking about.

I for one enjoyed that part of his speech. No, not because I hate any of those colored people. I enjoyed it because I felt proud that Jews were one of the people he did *not* hate. And not only that, he phrased it like hatred of Jews is an instant deal breaker (he said “and they hate Jews; very simple: they hate Jews”). But I doubt that other Jews share my sentiment. Other Jews probably went like “wow he will hate us too” and totally overlooked that sentence of his. Which shows they are clinging onto their persecution complex.

The situation with Putin and Ukraine is a similar example. One reason Putin cites for invasion of Crimea is that Ukrainians are anti Semitic and he wanted to protect Crimean Jews from Ukrainian antisemitism. Now, I don’t think that’s his main reason. I agree it’s just an excuse. But still, as a Jew, I feel proud to hear this. Yet most Jews don’t share this sentiment and support Ukraine.

Now, you can cite all the reasons in the world why one should support Ukraine, but the default question is: “ why don’t ethnic Russians support Ukraine for those exact reasons, why is it only Russian Jews who do?” And again, Russian Jews never cite their Jewishness as the reason for supporting Ukraine. The only one who ever mentions Jewishness in this particular context is Putin, as his reason for supporting Russia. So if support of Ukraine has nothing to do with Jewishness why are Russian Jews more likely to support Ukraine than ethnic Russians? That is one of the subconscious traits I am talking about. And that trait goes back to persecution complex. If Jews are a minority and Putin is dictator, then by default he must hate them even though his words point otherwise.

So to sum it up: Trump accuses dark skinned immigrants of antisemitism, Putin accuses Ukrainians of antisemitism. So both of them appear pro-Jewish in this particular way. Yet Jews don’t feel proud about it (except for myself of course) but instead they assume they are in danger because they are a minority and those types of presidents allegedly hate minorities. So this shows that their self perception as a minority group overrides some rather obvious signs that the respective presidents no longer view them as such. So instead of proudly declaring they are no longer a minority, they want to cling to their minority status and ensure their safety as such. Which again points to their persecution complex.

Again, you can give me all the reasons in the world to hate Putin and Trump. But the fact that statistically Jews hate them more than non-Jews still proves my point.

Actually I just remembered the first thing that drew my attention to this issue. Back in the distant year 2000, my grandmother (mothers mother) was upset that Gore picked Lieberman as wise president, because it would stop Gore from getting elected. Of course one question is why was my grandma, along with my mom, wanting Gore to be elected on the first place, which goes back to what I talked about Jews voting Democrat. But, putting this aside, here is far more important, and more obvious, question. Why wasn’t she proud that a Jew made it so far? But no, she wasn’t proud. Instead, she was worried this would trigger antisemitism. My mom said “at least he will get the Jewish vote”. And my grandma replied “no, Jews won’t vote for him, they will get mad”. So why would Jews get mad instead of proud? Again, persecution complex. Quite frankly, I was shocked when my grandma said it this way. It took me years to process that.



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19 Jan 2022, 1:20 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
With the direction this topic has taken, I don't think it's appropriate for the Haven. PPR would be a better place for this.


I originally posted it in heaven because I talked about the vivid memories of a woman talking to me and how I wish they could talk to me now.



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19 Jan 2022, 3:38 pm

Summer_Twilight wrote:
QFT wrote:
I just ran onto Kristallnacht in one of my google searches, and this reminded me of the first -- and probably the only -- time I heard of it. I was walking down the campus of University of Michigan (which means I was between ages 24 and 29 since thats when I was doing my first ph.d. there) and some girl stopped me and invited me to some event about Kristallnacht. I asked her what the heck it is, she explained it to me. Apparently I was too busy with whatever else I was doing, so I never came.

Now, this vivid memory reminds me once again of the fact that I wish I was younger. You see, when I walk down the campus nowdays, nobody ever invites me anywhere. And if anyone would, it would be men, certainly not women. Women seem to avoid even say hello to me. But that woman, on the other hand, approached me. And also apparently she knew I was Jewish. But nowdays nobody knows I am anything except for the weirdo. I just wish I could go back in time and feel accepted again. Too bad I didn't go to her Kristallnacht event or whatever. I don't know why I was missing all those opportunities at the exact time when I was spending all those hours on dating sites.


I am also Jewish and I had a similar experience in 6th grade where I had the chance to attend a production of "The Diary of Anne Frank" and I turned it down. Luckily, I have since learned a lot about her and about the holocaust. I believe you have plenty of time to learn about "Kristallnacht" and especially in a few weeks.


My regret has nothing to do with learning about Kristalnacht. It has to do with not connecting with that woman. Kristalnacht could have been a way of connecting with her. I obviously missed that boat. So unless I can find someone else with whom to connect over this particular topic, it would just forever be a reminder of my missed opportunities with 20-something women.

Personally, I am equally happy to connect with Jewish women and non-Jewish ones. But if Jewishness would create a bond, then sure, I would happily use that bond too.

I don’t think it did in most cases though. Jewish women seem to avoid me just as much as non Jewish ones. In fact what originally hurt me is when I was ostracized in Jewish club (which they call Hillel) back in Minnesota in 2001. That’s what set me up on going to dating sites and wasting hours and hours that could have been used for physics. If not for Minnesota Hillel, I probably would have been in a much better place.

But in Michigan Hillel (I transferred to Michigan in 2004) it seems I had better luck of getting accepted. I remember I first came to Michigan Hillel in August 2004. Now, this happened to be either the day or the next day after my first long term ex broke up with me (and she wasn’t Jewish by the way). So I was just really sad about that breakup. No, I didn’t say anything. I was just standing there quietly and obsessing about it. Now, some girls tried to chat me up and were asking me questions. I was just giving them very short answers. Then the last question was “how do you feel like being surrounded by girls”. They probably took my silence as if I was shy around women, when actually I was sad about my ex.

Now, here is something that was REALLY stupid about that. I didn’t even like that ex that left me anyway. So why did I ignore those likable women because of a woman I didn’t like anyway? That was just stupid.

Okay here is why I didn’t like my ex. For one thing, she was very over-controlling throughout the second part of our relationship. For example, I mentioned to her that I like to take random busses to explore places, so she didn’t give me keys to her apartment so that I wouldn’t take a bus from her apartment somewhere. Now I did that from my place, not from hers. But she assumed I would do it from hers. She also read somewhere that autistics are sensitive to noises so she wouldn’t take me to any place loud even though I repeatedly told her this particular symptom doesn’t apply to me. Although the other factor is that she was ashamed to have me in front of her friends. She tried to have me around them as little as possible, and when I was, she was treating me like a third leg. There was one friend of hers who never got to meet me, not even once, yet she asked her why would she want to “procreate retarded children”. So how would she get that opinion of me if it wasn’t for my ex telling this to her? I actually confronted her about this. She said she stopped talking to her, which I seriously doubt. Perhaps she talked to her slightly less, but I doubt she cut all ties. When I asked her why didn’t she verbally stand up for me, she just yelled stop. Which quite frankly is hypocritical seeing that she wanted me to verbally stand up when my mom was criticizing her.

Now you could say maybe I only see it in the retrospect. Well, I know I saw it back then too. Here is the clear proof of it. When I moved from Minnesota to Michigan, I was happy to finally cut ties with her. But she was talking about moving to Michigan to join me either in October or in March. I dreaded that, and wanted to do all I could think of to prevent it from happening. The only thing I could think of was to stop returning her calls, and lie to her that my phone battery wasn’t working. Likewise I stopped answering her emails and lied that the university library was closed. It was 2004, remember, so back then I never used laptop yet and she knew it. I only checked email from the library, which was the truth. The only part that was a lie is that I said the library was closed for the summer when it wasn’t. However, I had a password from her email, so even though I wasn’t contacting her, I was regularly checking her email. Sometime in the early July I saw she joined three or four different dating sites. So I confronted her about it. The way I explained how I checked her email despite the library supposedly being closed for the summer, is I said I checked it at Kinkos, but I couldn’t afford to use kinkos too often since it’s expensive. In any case, she responded that “she and her friend was just goofing around”, she then went on to say that the only guy she allows in circle of her friends is that specific ex of hers whom I met since everyone knows she will never date him, and she added that I am more likely to cheat on her with my wondering mind. Now that email sounded believable, so I assumed that wasn’t an issue. Although there was new issue: when I called her on the phone about it (I said normally my phone loses its charge quickly but this one time I went out of my way to charge it well) she told me that she can have male friends because she knows how to keep that boundary but I shouldn’t have female friends because I am “naive due to my Asperger” so supposedly they will cross that boundary with me without my knowing it. Now that right there is the reason why I didn’t like that relationship: she put me on a lower status due to my Asperger, which is what she always did.

Now the way she finally broke up with me was in August. She wrote me that I have school she had her new job, she knows I am her soulmate, but we should lay off our relationship for 2 years until I graduate and then we can reconnect after that (actually it took 5 years not 2, but neither of us could predict how long it would take, and she assumed it would be 2; and no I didn’t say anything that would make her assume that, she just did all on her own). In any case, in response to that email I asked her: does what she just wrote have anything to do with those dating websites I confronted her back in July? Did she find someone? She said yes it does: she joined those sites and in fact several others in order to look for a mate becauseat she thinks it’s ridiculous how I didn’t respond to her messages in the summer. Then I pointed out to her that the reason I didn’t respond to those messages is that the university library was closed for the summer. But now that semester finally started, the university library was open, so I will respond to her messages from now on. But you see, she did NOT say that she thought I lied. Instead, she simply said that there might be other things that might be stoping from emailing me now. I found it insulting because it was like her saying that since I wasn’t smart enough to figure out when it’s difficult I wouldn’t be smart enough to figure out when it’s easy. And that was her thinking all along. For example when she assumed that just because I have trouble with social skills I must have sensory issues as well, that was the same exact concept. Then the other thing she told me that REALLY threw me off is that she knows I am her soul mate, she just wanted to date those two guys to “pass her time for the two years until I graduate” (again I never said it was going to be 2 years but whatever). So did she think I was *that* stupid that I would believe her I was her *soulmate* while those two guys are just someone for her to pass time with? Now when I pushed further she finally admitted that she doesn’t want to date me at all, not even in 2 years. So what should I say then? She knows I am her soulmate except that she won’t see me my whole life, I will just be her soulmate in an afterlife? No she didn’t say the latter, but you see why I felt so ridiculous.

Anyway, back to those Jewish girls. As I mentioned, she wasn’t Jewish. But I went to that Michigan Hillel the very first time exactly the day she broke up with me, or perhaps tge day after. I didn’t go there before because I assumed that — unlike the library — it probably was closed for the summer. But I never tested my assumption. So who knows maybe I could have been going there in the summer. But I was too busy studying string theory to look into that. After all I thought that my relationship status as taken addresses my loneliness issue — even if I am taken by the woman I know I don’t like as evident by my not returning her calls. Which was really stupid on my part. If I disliked her so much that I avoid returning her calls, why were I acting as if I don’t need anyone else because of being supposedly with her?! That was just stupid!

And then of course the day she broke up with me, I came to Hillel. Three or four girls at Hillel were trying to chat me up, yet I was pretty much ignoring them because I was processing whatever happened with the ex whom I didn’t even like. By the way those girls were a lot more attractive than my ex. For one thing my ex was 220 lbl (100 kg) while those three girls were all of normal weight.

And it wasn’t just that day that I ignored them. I didn’t go to Hillel other than that one time and one other occasion several months later.

Although that Kristalnacht girl didn’t meet me at Hillel, she stopped me as I was walking across the campus. I have no idea how she knew I was Jewish unless she remembered me from one of the two occasions I was at Hillel. I didn’t ask her whether she did or not, it didn’t occur to think about it till now. But it’s a good question now that I think of it. Because if she did remember me from Hillel, despite the fact I been there only twice and several months ago, that would mean she really liked me. Although again, there are ways to tell a Jew by their face. But that is something only Russians are good at, Americans not so much. Plus I was told I don’t look too distinctly Jewish, although some say I do. It’s also possible she was just stopping people at random and I just happened to be one of the random people she stopped. But it seemed like she knew I was Jewish, but I don’t remember the details to really know if my assumption was true or not. Too much time passed. But, if she knew, than this would mean she actually saw me as a person rather than just a weirdo — in contrast to people nowadays.

The other example of being seen as a person was the following. So I was undergrad back then, which is even before all this Minnesota and Michigan stuff (I did bachelors at Berkeley, masters in Minnesota, first PhD in Michigan, three postdocs in India and now in New Mexico I am doing the second PhD). So anyway, I was sitting on a public computer playing chess. One girl said to the other one “I like it, the semester is over, we got to play chess”. I felt really embarrassed they saw what I did. And now I probably would too: I don’t like when people look at my screen. But here is one aspect of it that I didn’t notice back then, yet looking back I really miss. She referred to me as “we”. She considered me as “one of us”. Nobody sees me that way nowadays.

Then there was another incident, also from Berkeley. So I was at the university library, looking for books. So I had this huge pile of books I was carrying and I accidentally dropped them. A group of girls ran up to me and began picking them up. None of the girls would ever do it nowadays.

Now, I know I don’t have any evidence that those girls wanted to date me. Probably not. But the fact that they saw me as “one of us” already means a lot, in comparison to right now when nobody ever sees me that way. If I am “one of us” then who knows maybe one of them would have dated me, if only I wasn’t burried in books all day. But right now that they don’t see me as “one of us”, I just don’t stand a chance.

Now the two girls that I suspect *did* want to date me were the two cashiers: one in that little shop in Minnesota and the other in Jimmy Jones in Michigan. In both cases I came late at night, often way past midnight, after my long day of studies. I wanted to buy something to eat right before I collapse into bed. Both of those girls kept trying to chat me up, but I kept ignoring them since I couldn’t wait to eat my food and go to sleep.

Now the stupidest thing about it is that the reason I was finishing homework so late is because I spent hours on dating sites, where nobody was ever responding to me. So why didn’t it ever occurred to me that, instead of hitting my head against the brick wall for hours on end, I could have talked to those girls?

I guess it’s because once I started to fixate on dating sites, I was assuming dating sites was the only place to look for women. Which was really stupid of me. Right now that I am finally fixating on women in the “real world” I am only using dating sites to distract myself from obsessing why women of the real world won’t talk to them. So now I regret why didn’t I take such opportunities back then which just presented themselves all on their own? That was just really stupid of me.

Few years ago, after a conference in Lansing I actually went to Ann Arbor. Not just because of Jimmy Jones girl, but because I was nostalgic about that place. For example, I finally walked to a town named Dexter and the other town named Selsia if I spell it correctly, I was always curious about neighboring towns but could never make it there since I don’t drive. So one reason for my visit was to see them which I finally did. But then of course, since I was already there, I went to that Jimmy Jones and asked the guys if they could trace someone who used to work there back in 2006. I didn’t even remember her name, so of course they couldn’t help me. But at least I tried. I was really hoping they would have some Archived directory of their past employers. They haven’t.

I also went to Minnesota to a physics conference and then after the conference tried to find the Minnesota cashier. In this case, I remember her name. But unfortunately that cosy little store was taken down and replaced with the CVS. I asked people at CVS if they could find the girl named such and such that used to be at that former store back in 2002. Of course they couldn’t.

The other desperate thing I did is I went to Adventist church here in New Mexico hoping to connect to one of the people at the Adventist club back in Michigan (yes I was going there regularly, but only for Bible studies, it never occurred to me to reciprocate their attempts — including female attempts — to socialize; again, stupid). This time I was more lucky. I actually ran into one of the girls who used to go there. She was really excited and was calling all her friends that she met me in the desert. She is married though. But at least we could have been friends. But somehow I couldn’t reciprocate her excitement, even though she was excited for the very same thing I was: she also missed Michigan. I guess it’s a social skill: if someone says something with which I 100% agree, I don’t know what to say, since they already know everything I know. So eventually her excitement dissipated. Which is sad, really. Because she was sharing a lot of common memories with me. I remember me telling her how I went to the Japanese restaurant during my visit there and how that 60 year old Japanese lady recognized me, and she told me that she knows that lady too and that this restaurant was taken down a year after my visit. I also told her about that little shop that was taken down (not the one with either of these girls, a different one; but I liked that food and cosy atmosphere and was kinda sad it was gone) She related to it too. She also remembers that shop and also was sad it was gone. So it was just really nice to bond with her over all this.

One thing that I suspect contributed to this bond dissipating is that I asked her whether or not she would be able to see her future kids as her own (she is white, her husband is black, so their kids would be brown). I said it to her in the car, and they were both in the car even though I was directing my question to her. I said it literally a minute or two before they dropped me off at my place. They both went very quiet. Then I apologized to her over text after I came to the dorm and she said they both accepted the apology. But I noticed she no longer expressed this enthusiasm after that.

Then the other thing that happened is that I read on the internet of the incident where a new firefighter in Detroit gave watermelon to the rest of the firefighters the first day he went there. Now this was one of their customs that a new person serves food to old people. But the part where he made a mistake is that he picked watermelon instead of other food. Because he was white and most of them were black, and white person serving watermelon to black people is considered racist since it serves into racist stereotype that blacks like watermelon. It was the first time I heard of that stereotype as well as the fact that it’s racist. It really puzzled me because even if blacks did like watermelon, I don’t see why it would be a negative. But in any case, few days later I was at a church lunch and her husband was eating watermelon. So my first thought was why would he eat it, if he doesn’t want to feed that supposedly-racist stereotype. I decided to take a photo of him and post it on facebook with the remark “the only n****r who isn’t afraid to eat watermelon”.,Now, neither of them were on my Facebook at the time (U added them several months after that) so they didn’t see that remark (a friend of my ex — not the ex I talked about, a different ex —- who was on my Facebook convinced me to delete it few days after it was posted). But her husband did see that I was goofing around and he looked stunned. He didn’t know what it was about though, he actually asked me the exact question that I had. I guess it’s because he is from Haiti so he doesn’t know that whole American culture thing. And I didn’t use N word to his face, only on Facebook. So he was more stunned than anything else. But in conjunction with my remark about their kids few months earlier, I don’t think it helped.

Yes I was welcome to her weekly Bible studies (that’s where they were taking me home from) but I noticed that instead of them taking me home it was always one other guy who goes to the Bible study taking me home. Yes she would still mention to people how she remembers me from Michigan, but not as often and not as enthusiastically. Also I remember when she first met me she talked about various plans for the summer, such as us going camping together and so forth. None of this took place. The only thing she takes about that did take place (besides Bible study) is that she told me about “run for the zoo” event that happens every year where they were both going and she invited me along. Now, she mentioned that event to me (along many other things) during first week we reunited, long before either of my two remarks. Yes I went there after those remarks, but that’s just because I already was told about it so I mentioned it myself and she offered me a ride, why not. Yes she found me after I finished the race and the three of us walked around the zoo. But she wasn’t talking to me as much as she used to. No she wasn’t making me feel ostracized like everyone else does, but she didn’t have the connection that she used to have either.

But in any case, I guess she is married anyway. I just can’t look past the fact that she reminds me of the past. I wish I could meet one of those other girls I remember. I really miss the good old days.



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19 Jan 2022, 4:59 pm

QFT wrote:
I think Jews are hurting themselves more than anyone else by such commemorations. Especially Jewish men. It’s not very masculine to commemorate ones defeats. If Jews wanted to be proud they would be better off remembering King David rather than Anne Frank.

Both commemorating historic disasters and celebrating victories have their place. Hanukkah and Purim are holidays that celebrate victories.


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19 Jan 2022, 6:12 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
QFT wrote:
I think Jews are hurting themselves more than anyone else by such commemorations. Especially Jewish men. It’s not very masculine to commemorate ones defeats. If Jews wanted to be proud they would be better off remembering King David rather than Anne Frank.

Both commemorating historic disasters and celebrating victories have their place. Hanukkah and Purim are holidays that celebrate victories.


You can't say "both Hannukah and Holocaust Remembrance has their place". You have to keep in mind: Hannukah is ancient holiday, Holocaust Remembrance is modern. And, as it happens, none of the ancient holidays are defeatist, yet almost every modern one is. The only ancient holiday that is "sad" is Yom Kippur. But even that holiday is not defeatist since it has nothing to do with victimhood it has to do with repentance. Yet almost all modern Jewish holidays *are* defeatist.

That shows that Jews changed their attitude from victorious (King David) to defeatist (Anne Frank). That change took place probably few generations after Jewish temple was distroyed in 70 AD, since that is when Jews were scattered abroad, to face persecution for the 2 millenia that followed. Now remember, Jesus was crucified in 33 AD. So, as a Christian, I know that the disraction of the Jewish temple was a punishment for the death of Jesus. And said punishment penetrated their very culture.

Then there are some theories that claim that antient Israelites are different from today's Jews. One theory says 2 southern tribes *are* Jews while 10 lost tribes are Europeans (and they even plotted which tribe corresponds to which European nation). And the other theory says that none of those 12 tribes were Jewish and instead Jews are Khazar conversts. I personally favor the former rather than the latter. Although I am not claiming to believe in any of those theories. They are just theories and as a theoretical physicist I like to theorize :) Who knows maybe all 12 tribes are Jews, thats also possible. I just don't know one way or the other.

But in either case. One of the two things must have happened. One is maybe its the same group of people that radically changed as a consequence of the punishment for crucifixion of Jesus. The other possibility is maybe it is simply two different groups of people. And then of course there could be in-between possibilities. Such as two sothern tribes were particularly responsible for killing Jesus and not the other northern tribes, etc.

But in any case, the point is that "what we regard" as ancient Jewish holidays (regardless of whether their actual authors belong to the ethnic group that is today regarded as Jews), those are drastically different from the modern Jewish holidays. What makes it even more interesting is that

12) A lot of today's Jews no longer observe Biblical Judaism. They eat pork and so forth.

13) A lot of today's non-Jews *do* start to keep Biblical Judaism. Good examples would be Seventh Day Adventists, United Church of God, Assembly of Yahweh and British Israelism

14) Messianic Jews who were born Jewish yet embraced Christ lost their right of return to the State of Israel, despite the fact that they keep kosher and keep biblical holidays. Yet secular Jews, who eat pork and so forth, still have their right of return to Israel.

So points 12, 13 and 14 show that today's Jews no longer define themselves based on faith in Judaism. Some other things, such as holocaust rememberance, are perhaps a bit closer (although I wouldn't say it would define them either). Rejection of Christ seems closer to their identity than embrace of Judaism -- at least as far as Right of Return is concerned as well as the other examples of reaction of fellow Jews. Jews are a lot more pissed at Messianic Jews (who for the most part keep kosher) than at secular Jews (who for the most part eat pork).

And that again goes back to persecution complex. The "religious reasons" to hate Christians is that deifying a person is considered idolatry based on their interpretation of Torah (they don't regard Messiah to be God). But then what about the following observations:

15) Hare Krishna would be considered idolatry too, yet Jews have a lot more problem when their fellow Jews convert to Christianity than they do when their fellow Jews convert to Hare Krishna.

16) Secular Jews who reject the existence of God altogether shouldn't, logically, care about idolatry. Yet they still have problems with Jews who believe in Jesus

17) There are some Christian sects that don't believe that Jesus is God. Jehovah Wittnesses is one. Christodelphans is the other. Yet Jews wouldn't want their fellow Jews to join those sects either. But, from Jewish standpoint, there is nothing wrong to believe in "wrong Messiah" as long as you don't deify him. For example, a lot of Jews believe that Rabbi Shneerson is the Messiah. And the other Jews that don't agree with them still accept them because they don't deify Shneerson. Now, how is the belief that Jesus is the Messiah any worse than the belief that Shneerson is the Messiah? I guess the Jews would say because Jesus is even less qualified for this, that, and that other reason. But still, if "being wrong about Messiah" isn't a sin, then who cares if someone picked supposedly less qualified Messiah such as Jesus? As long as they don't deify Jesus (which, again, Jehovah Wittnesses and Christodelphians don't do), there is no idolatry.

The point I am trying to make is that Jewish hatred towards Christianity is due to their persecution complex, particularly in light of point 16.

As a Messianic Jew, I keep Biblical holidays. I also keep dietary laws (I abstain from pork and sea food). But no, I don't observe holocaust remembrance day cause it has nothing to do with any of that. I have a lot more respect for Biblical Judaism than for modern Jewish culture. And of course I observe Biblical Judaism in the Name of Jesus, as the rest of the Messianic Jews do.

Although then again you have to be careful as to what part of modern Jewish culture you are looking at. I respect Jewish devotion to education, and obviously I am proud of Jewish scientists such as Einstein and Feynman. I just have more respect towards Einstein than towards Anne Frank. Yet Anne Frank is the one who is a lot more firmly associated with Jewishness, which kinda proves my point.



Last edited by QFT on 19 Jan 2022, 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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19 Jan 2022, 6:34 pm

@QFT

No in terms of engagement I am simply talking about female attention (not whether it translates into friendship). I recall in highschool catching a bus and an absolutely stunning girl around my age starting talking to me. We continued talking on the bus but once I got off I never saw her again. Another example is when I was in my late 20s travelling on an airline I had the fortune to sit next to a woman who can only be described as a supermodel. She accepted that I was also a young man and we found common stuff to talk about (we both liked adventure/wildlife and talked for hours about safaris and hiring a boat and island hopping. After the flight we went our seperate ways.

In both cases had I been in my 40s both girls would have been creeped out if I initiated conversation, When you are closer in age there's a more organic connection that isn't going to be sparked when the age disparity is greater. But don't despair, there's other ways you can compensate like dressing immaculately and going to a lot of trouble with grooming and smelling nice. I'm afraid you can't "force" a smile (especially if you have been conditioned over many years) but you can change your attitudes and be more "care free" and loosen up. The more you relax and not carry expectations when you interact with females in public then the less anxious you will be and your face will show it.

On the matter of whether Jewish people should stop holding onto things that happened in the past, My understanding is that Jewish history is an important part of Jewish identity. So it doesn't surprise me if a young perky jewish girl is more engrossed in Kristallnacht (as if it happened yesterday). That doesn't stop her from being interested in other things like boys, clothes, fashion etc...just like any other girl her age.



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19 Jan 2022, 8:21 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Another example is when I was in my late 20s travelling on an airline I had the fortune to sit next to a woman who can only be described as a supermodel. She accepted that I was also a young man and we found common stuff to talk about (we both liked adventure/wildlife and talked for hours about safaris and hiring a boat and island hopping. After the flight we went our seperate ways.


I had almost exact experience. So I was also in my 20-s, and the woman that was sitting next to me on the plane started chatting me up. She told me she was a celebrity. Yes she probably told me which one, but I don't know celebrities that well, so I couldn't really tell one way or the other. But she also mentioned she was married. So I felt a bit weird talking to a married woman. But she kept trying to actively engage me. She kept touching me as she was talking to me, and after the flight was over she offered a hug; I kinda shied away, so she offered a side hug, and I did that. Then she gave me her email address. I emailed her. She responded once or twice, but that was it.

On a different note, a sister of a senator approached me in a math class back in 2005, which was probably around the time of airplane lady (I don't remember if it was a year before or a year after). But then she rejected me when I told her that my mom babies me and I could never explain to her that just because my mom babies me it doesn't mean I want to be babied (she assumed I would expect it from someone in a relationship). She still wanted to be close friends, she just didn't want to date me. "As a friend" she wanted to take good care of me, as she assumed I wanted her to (since my mom does this). Yet that very thing disqualified me from being a dating material. This got me upset, so as I kept acting upset in passive aggressive way, this friendship dissipated on the space of weeks. My regret here is that I didn't explain the thing about my mom back when she asked. Because she DID ask me about my mom, few different times, yet I kind of brushed it off since I didn't regard it as important. And then when I finally realized it was important it was too late.

And then also I found on a dating site Miss Nebraska, whom I had long distance relationship with in 2013--2014 (but she was unusual Miss Nebraska: she was in devote Christian family and apparently there was some other Miss Nebraska from the same year, 2002, who was a different woman -- she told me it was different contests). In her case, she broke up with me a year and a half later due to some trust issues, but she never told me what they were. They ranged from her thinking I cheat on her when skype connection didn't work properly to her thinking I cheat with her due to a visit of my mom's landlord's granddaughter whom I only talk once in few years. We were in a long distance relationship (due to her being devoted Christian she couldn't travel and meet me without her parents even though she was in her 30-s). So the fact that in the space of 2 years we only met twice has probably contributted to the trust issues.

If you ask me why such high qualities ladies approach me despite my Asperger, thats because they have other things that would counterweigh their apparent rating. In case of sister of a senator, she had a bipolar. In fact one of the things that she was upset about was that I was focused on "my mom" as the reason why she won't date me, while ignoring the fact that her bipolar is also one of the reasons. As far as Miss Nebraska, she was actually overweight. In fact, she told me that she had to rapidly lose weight in order to even qualify for Miss Nebraska contest, and then she gained it back afterwords. She told me she had a scar from losing weight. From what I know now people get those scars when they have weight loss surgery. But thats not what she told me. She said she lost it by nearly-fasting and the scars was due to lose skin due to such a rapid weight loss. I don't know if its true or not. But in any case, those cashiers, as well as Hillel girls, are all more beautiful than the Miss Nebraska. Although I would still take Miss Nebraska rather than them because of the title.

I don't have any regrets about the airplane lady since like I said she was married. But as far as the other two, yes I have a lot of regrets. I feel like with each one of them things could have totally worked out if only I were to phrase this little thing or that other little thing differently.

But that, still, is a different feeling from women such as cashiers with whom I never even tried. At least with Miss Nebraska I tried and I saw how it went. But with those cashier ladies, it was totally stupid of me that they never crossed my mind until several years later.

What about the airplane lady that you met? Was she also married?



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19 Jan 2022, 8:44 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Desperation occurs within all ethnic groups. I don't find it to be a particularly "Jewish" trait.


Everyone is prone to desperation, but the ones who were sheltered as kids are more prone to it. So since Jewish mother is more sheltering, thats why people who had Jewish mothers (which means Jews) are more prone to desperation.

kraftiekortie wrote:
Self-deprecating humor is a Yiddish theater trait. I believe it stems from a certain fatalism which happens when an ethnic/religious group is in a diaspora situation.


If you are referring to my mom's landlord, it didn't occur to me before, but good point. The way I took it to be is that he was just making fun of religion because he was an atheist. But now that I think of it this way, yes maybe it was a Jewish type of self depreciation. Just different flavor from the one I would see in the movies. But then again there is a difference between movies and real life.

kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand you have regrets that you didn't talk more to this woman who invited you to a Kristallnacht-related event. I have these sorts of regrets, too. I once liked a librarian in Maine. We struck up a nice conversation. She gave me her number----but I lost it (like an idiot!)


So why didn't you ask her for her number again? Were you simply too shy to do it? Or did you simply not find her (as in you didn't know when her hours are)?



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19 Jan 2022, 9:49 pm

QFT wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Both commemorating historic disasters and celebrating victories have their place. Hanukkah and Purim are holidays that celebrate victories.


You can't say "both Hannukah and Holocaust Remembrance has their place". You have to keep in mind: Hannukah is ancient holiday, Holocaust Remembrance is modern. [...] The only ancient holiday that is "sad" is Yom Kippur.

What about Tisha B'Av? It's a traditional fast day that commemorates several ancient disasters.


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