Is it Marx's fault for the wrong-doings of communism ?

Post Reply New Topic

I seem to think that if Karl Marx had lived to see the regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Kims and so on, I think he probably would have disagreed with the dictatorial laws and policies put in place by them with it as I seem to think they probably were not really completely communist regimes. I look at North Korea for example and think there is nothing much there it is to do with the ideas and principles of communism when it seems to be more like a kingdom that makes the living and dead presidents of that country more like kings and gods. It seems to be all about the cult of personalty surrounding the leaders.

Karl Marx was just a writer of political philosophy he died in 1883, how can he be responsible for anything in the 20th century.

I think Marx's ideas are generally sound enough, in as far as I can understand them (he does have a rather complicated and inaccessible communication style). Just that every time anybody tries to put the ideas into practice, some selfish bastard gets in on the act and betrays they whole project.

Exactly. I can't understand why some people say that Karl Marx himself is responsible for the deaths of millions when he had died in the 19th century.

Karl Marx seems to have not taken basic human greed and avarice into consideration; either that, or he believed that such vices could be "evolved" out of the humanity by applying Communist principles to the general population.  In any case, his system was (and still is) flawed and doomed to failure.

^
I always thought it was more a critique of the status quo than an attempt to prescribe an intervention in detail, though I've not read everything he wrote. Didn't he think that capitalism would shake itself to pieces and that communism would simply evolve out of the ashes, rather than having to be artificially imposed?

It was a call to action. Thats why he called one his books "The Manifesto". But did say two seemingly contradictory things- that his revolution was "inevitable", and that "we have to take action". But those arent really contradictions. Why not speed up "the inevitable"?

But if he were brought forward in time to the mid 20th century in a time machine its doubtful he would approve of all of the regimes that bore his name. And would be appalled by some of the regimes. Might even go back to his own time, rethink things.

^^ I've heard "Karl would be pissed if he only knew" from several different people that have read him. IMHO, He forgot about the age old platitude, power corrupts. Or did he address it?

he did. his answer is called "communism".

Marx was a product of his time which was in the middle of imperial European empires, enslaved populations in the colonies world, poor people in Europe living in abject poverty, colonial cartels, commoners ruled by an aristocratic class and royal families who used soldiers to maintain law and order.

Marx's doctrine did not forsee the actual establishment of communism in the same way Buddha never dreamed entire nations would follow his teachings as a national religion.

Karl Marx wrote Das Kapital, and "The Communist Manifesto".

Hitler wrote "Mein Kampf".

The problem with Marx's ideas is that they dont work.

The problem with Hitler's ideas is that they worked all too well.

In Hitler's books he says that he is all about tyranny, racial supremecy, militarism, and genocide. And thats exactly what you got with him.

Marx said that he was all about "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need". Most idealistic thing imaginable. Trouble is when its put into action it results in ...tyranny, mass murder, etc. (often hard to distinquish from the results of Nazism).

So Marx wasnt an outright villain the way Hitler was, nor even Stalin (who mass murdered in the name of Marx) was.

Marx imagined that his global workers' revolution would start in western europe or in the US. In an advanced industrialized country. He would be shocked to learn that Russia (which he considered backward) would be the first country to put his ideas on the map. And he would be more shocked to learn that his ideas would spread from Russia to the third world, and would be a rallying creed against European colonialism (which Marx considered to be a 'progressive force drawing backward peoples into civilization').

Imagine his shock that the two purest communist nations in 2022 are China and North Korea, Marx was a product of his time He believed in the inferiority of non-white people. His manifesto was for the white man.

a "traven" remembers this;

Neither China, nor North Korea, are "pure Marxist". China is very capitalistic. In fact ironically China is more like the Dickensian bare knuckled capitalist England (and US) of Marx's own time (that mercilessly exploited workers)- than England and the US themelves are today. And North Korea is beyond Marxism into its own philosophy of "self reliance", and also is a hereditary monarchy. He would probably call North Korea "an oriental despotism" (his term for the traditional Asian empires of old).

But what about the value of...badges?

Nature is about ability and need, though. You could just call that life; there is nothing idealistic about it. Civilization is about luxury, and this is where you will get tyranny, mass murder, etc.

Marx must have done something right if so many people still love nitpicking him. He's like the Jesus it's okay to hate.