Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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ironpony
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12 May 2022, 12:44 am

I don't think the sanctions are working. Russia still keeps fighting and they don't care about sanctions so far. I mean if sanctions were that good, they would have beaten other nations at war before it seems.



auntblabby
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12 May 2022, 1:30 am

i wonder what persuaded the GOP to stop openly supporting russia in this?



magz
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12 May 2022, 1:54 am

auntblabby wrote:
i wonder what persuaded the GOP to stop openly supporting russia in this?
Popular opinion pressure, I suppose.
That's what's making quite a work in Germany right now.


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magz
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12 May 2022, 2:02 am

ironpony wrote:
I don't think the sanctions are working. Russia still keeps fighting and they don't care about sanctions so far. I mean if sanctions were that good, they would have beaten other nations at war before it seems.
Sanctions are preventing places like North Korea from building enough military power to stand a chance at war.
Sanctions are working but they're not a magical wand. It takes time. From what I know, Russians already became unable to rebuild the high-tech weapons and ammo without access to global electronic markets.
Soviet Union collapsed after 10 years of Afghan war and sanctions. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

We don't have magical wands. Solutions that work usually take time and effort.


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Pepe
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12 May 2022, 2:40 am

auntblabby wrote:
i wonder what persuaded the GOP to stop openly supporting russia in this?


I believe it was the actual invasion.
Trump liked the threat pootin was using, but when he invaded, pooting was the bad boy.


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Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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magz
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12 May 2022, 2:54 am

Yes, the actual invasion and what it looks like has shifted perception of Russia in the so called free world.


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magz
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12 May 2022, 3:30 am

In the meantime, Finland has officially announced willing to join NATO "without delay".
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61404062
Estonians rejoice, I suppose - instead of being NATO's northeastern tip, they'll become part of NATO's eastern wall.
Medvedev is threatning with nukes - that's apparently his current assignment.


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auntblabby
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12 May 2022, 3:39 am

this all makes me appreciative of my advanced age, for once.



magz
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12 May 2022, 4:04 am

auntblabby wrote:
this all makes me appreciative of my advanced age, for once.
I have kids...

But, seriously, we've rebiult from ruins many times, we can do it once more.

First signs of recession here... for the first time in my adult life. Well, our govt is doing the right thing on the international scene but they suck at domestic affairs and finances, they've been for the last 8 years. This plus covid plus war makes even our resilient economy suffer. Prices growth is only accelerating.
Well, I still remember being poor. My kids don't and it might not be easy for them but we can manage.


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Pepe
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12 May 2022, 4:20 am

auntblabby wrote:
this all makes me appreciative of my advanced age, for once.


It is nirvana for those in their later years without children.
It is a good place to be. <sigh> :heart:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


ironpony
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12 May 2022, 8:35 am

But the problem with government sanctions is gas and oil are much higher in price now as long as other goods, so why is the solution to punish everyone, while imposing a sanction that Putin is not going to change his mind on and still murder more and more Ukrainians? The sanction solution just seems incredibly impotent at this point and it punishes everyone.



kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 8:40 am

The sanctions are weakening Russia's military power-----especially to rebuild materiel that was damage, and to build new materiel. All that comprises much of the effectiveness of the sanctions.

I hope you don't advocate us just ignoring Putin, and allowing him to run roughshod over Eastern Europe.....



ironpony
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12 May 2022, 8:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The sanctions are weakening Russia's military power-----especially to rebuild materiel that was damage, and to build new materiel. All that comprises much of the effectiveness of the sanctions.

I hope you don't advocate us just ignoring Putin, and allowing him to run roughshod over Eastern Europe.....


Oh no I am not advocating to ignore Putin, I am just saying I think it's going to take a lot more than sanctions. For example, if sanctions are so effective, why didn't they stop wars before? Why didn't the US use them on Germany and Japan during WWII instead of having to use harsher methods of fighting? Or why didn't they use them on North Vietnam instead of fighting, etc.



kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 9:05 am

Sanctions have been more effective this time than in the other instances you mentioned.

The sanctions are imposed primarily to avoid having some nation like the US have a direct war-confrontation with Russia.



magz
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12 May 2022, 9:38 am

ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
The sanctions are weakening Russia's military power-----especially to rebuild materiel that was damage, and to build new materiel. All that comprises much of the effectiveness of the sanctions.

I hope you don't advocate us just ignoring Putin, and allowing him to run roughshod over Eastern Europe.....


Oh no I am not advocating to ignore Putin, I am just saying I think it's going to take a lot more than sanctions. For example, if sanctions are so effective, why didn't they stop wars before? Why didn't the US use them on Germany and Japan during WWII instead of having to use harsher methods of fighting? Or why didn't they use them on North Vietnam instead of fighting, etc.
Unlike these examples, Russia has not built independence from global supply chains before starting the war.
They depend on Western electronics and other high-tech in building advanced weapons. That makes them sensitive to sanctions even on military level.


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12 May 2022, 11:07 am

magz wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
The sanctions are weakening Russia's military power-----especially to rebuild materiel that was damage, and to build new materiel. All that comprises much of the effectiveness of the sanctions.

I hope you don't advocate us just ignoring Putin, and allowing him to run roughshod over Eastern Europe.....


Oh no I am not advocating to ignore Putin, I am just saying I think it's going to take a lot more than sanctions. For example, if sanctions are so effective, why didn't they stop wars before? Why didn't the US use them on Germany and Japan during WWII instead of having to use harsher methods of fighting? Or why didn't they use them on North Vietnam instead of fighting, etc.
Unlike these examples, Russia has not built independence from global supply chains before starting the war.
They depend on Western electronics and other high-tech in building advanced weapons. That makes them sensitive to sanctions even on military level.

They’re also dependent on the modern international interdependent nature of the global economy more than ever today. They export a lot of food, oil & gas, and other things. Cutting them out of the global finance and trade loop is definitely helping. Even if putin himself isn’t that personally affected, many ultra wealthy Russian oligarchs as well as the common working class people are All affected.. and they will put pressure on the Kremlin to end the war so they can conduct business. People vote with their wallets and will demand what’s good for their own personal income/survival. If the pressure is great enough, some high level powerful Russians may just plot to remove putin as their president and then begin to change things. Stopping money from flowing for long enough can have a dramatic effect. There’s a lag time, though.. businesses and people have savings - money has to stop long enough to burn through their cash to make them desperate enough to demand or force change. No ultra rich person wants to become poor and no working person wants to starve to death. Give it time; sanctions are doing their job.


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