Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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Jakki
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16 May 2022, 2:32 pm

ironpony wrote:
Isn't the term rules of war in oxymoron really? If there is war that means there are no rules, kind of like what the Colonol in the movie The Bridge in the River Kwai said.



:scratch: :scratch: …….War …… :scratch: :scratch:


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kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 3:11 pm

We have the Geneva Convention. We should all follow its precepts more.

There's always been "rules" for war. Even "primitive" tribes have "rules" for war.



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16 May 2022, 4:08 pm

ironpony wrote:
Isn't the term rules of war in oxymoron really? If there is war that means there are no rules, kind of like what the Colonol in the movie The Bridge in the River Kwai said.

8O

..there are internationally agreed upon rules of war. That’s why there’s such a thing as “war crimes,” for people to be held accountable for atrocities like murdering civilians or using banned inhumane chemical weapons that cause people to die via horrific suffering. Humanity agreed that even if war continues to happen, that it would be conducted under a certain set of rules everyone agrees to abide by Or be punished for breaking.


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16 May 2022, 4:18 pm

That makes sense. When it comes to the rules of war what are the rules of a nation wants to take over another nation?



kraftiekortie
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16 May 2022, 5:17 pm

As far as NATO is concerned, all NATO nations have to intervene if a member of NATO is attacked.

We are short of acting like Ukraine is part of NATO----but we don't intervene militarily because Ukraine is not part of NATO. If it was, we would be obligated by treaty to intervene.



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16 May 2022, 6:45 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
Email today from a model kit retailer in Ukraine included this from their website,
https://plastic-models-store.com/index. ... post_id=44

Quote:
Hello friends!
WE FINALLY OPENED AGAIN!
After the war started we urgently closed our office and team was evacuated to a safe place.
Now we returned back to Kyiv! And we want to get back to normal life.
We have been in touch with every customer during this period and we are very thankful for hundreds of emails we received via email, eBay, amazon and facebook.
Your support of Ukraine is very important and impressive.

BIG THANK YOU FOR YOUR ORDERS
I would like to say a separate THANK YOU to every customer who placed an order to support our store during a difficult time without even knowing when we could ship it.
Thanks to your orders, we were able to pay the salaries of our team all this time, who were forced to leave their homes and be refugees.

There were several orders where you wrote: "No need to send anything, use this money at your discretion"
And one of the comments to the order was: Don't send me the models, go buy bullets!
By the way, all donated money in such way was transferred to my neighbors I personally know. We bought already 3 thermal rifle scopes to them who are fighting now on the frontline.

FEW WORDS about ruZZian invaders.
ruZZian army is an army of barbarians, marauders and thieves.

I personally know this from the stories of my wife's father, who was under occupation since February 26 for almost 40 days.

Their village is located 22 miles north of Kyiv. The Russians left his village at the beginning of April.
Before leaving, they buried the corpses of their soldiers under the forest near father's house.
They stole from empty houses everything that can be sold or that has value. They stole carpets, TVs, laptops, household appliances, batteries, screwdrivers, drills, boat engines. They also stole trucks from the poultry farm to take out the loot. Then we saw photos of these branded trucks on the territory of Belarus with an ugly letters V and Z on the body.

There are also a lot of audio intercepts where ruZZian soldiers communicate with their wives and mothers. They tell them how much money they were able to steal, how they steal sneakers, clothes, perfumes, blenders and teapots from Ukrainian homes.

This is not an army. This is a shame for the whole world. And we all need to stop them together.

SLAVA UKRAINI!




I rarely get emotional.
I am emotional about Ukraine.
"Russian warship, go f**k yourself." 8)


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
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Pepe
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16 May 2022, 6:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
We have the Geneva Convention. We should all follow its precepts more.

There's always been "rules" for war. Even "primitive" tribes have "rules" for war.


Unless we change the designation of what is a P.O.W. 8)
Yes, I am referring to something specific. :wink:


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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16 May 2022, 7:00 pm

ironpony wrote:
That makes sense. When it comes to the rules of war what are the rules of a nation wants to take over another nation?


Talk to the people at the Nuremberg Trials. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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16 May 2022, 8:55 pm

Quote:
This is a stunning loss for Russia: Kurt Volker

May 17, 2022

Former U.S. ambassador to NATO provides insight on a potentially pivotal setback for Russia in its war on Ukraine on 'The Story.' #FoxNews #TheStory


Another Russian military disaster.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


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16 May 2022, 9:01 pm

Quote:
Russian ‘tank graveyard’ after 52 vehicles blown up in one battle as Putin forced into retreat
2,448,585 views
May 13, 2022


Drone footage show a Russian Z tank "graveyard" littered with 52 vehicles that were blown up by Ukrainian troops in a single battle.

The woefully unprepared Russian battalion was bombed to smithereens trying to cross the river Donets in Ukraine in another humiliating setback for Vladimir Putin's forces.

The embarrassing news comes as Russian forces were forced back from the outskirts of the eastern city of Kharkiv.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the counteroffensive had "liberated" the country's second-biggest city and surrounding villages and given his troops a clear line to attack occupying forces in the strategic town of Izyum.

"The occupiers are gradually being pushed away," Zelensky said as he hailed the effort of his "superhuman" forces.

"I am grateful to all our defenders who are holding the line and demonstrating truly superhuman strength to drive out the army of invaders."



_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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16 May 2022, 9:03 pm

Image


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


ironpony
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16 May 2022, 9:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
As far as NATO is concerned, all NATO nations have to intervene if a member of NATO is attacked.

We are short of acting like Ukraine is part of NATO----but we don't intervene militarily because Ukraine is not part of NATO. If it was, we would be obligated by treaty to intervene.


Oh sorry, I meant what are the rules of war when it comes to a country like Russia invading another country, since another poster said Russia was breaking war rules. What would the rules for Russia be in this case, is what I meant.



Pepe
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16 May 2022, 9:27 pm

ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
As far as NATO is concerned, all NATO nations have to intervene if a member of NATO is attacked.

We are short of acting like Ukraine is part of NATO----but we don't intervene militarily because Ukraine is not part of NATO. If it was, we would be obligated by treaty to intervene.


Oh sorry, I meant what are the rules of war when it comes to a country like Russia invading another country, since another poster said Russia was breaking war rules. What would the rules for Russia be in this case, is what I meant.



Seriously?
You can't work that out for yourself?


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


ironpony
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16 May 2022, 9:41 pm

Pepe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
As far as NATO is concerned, all NATO nations have to intervene if a member of NATO is attacked.

We are short of acting like Ukraine is part of NATO----but we don't intervene militarily because Ukraine is not part of NATO. If it was, we would be obligated by treaty to intervene.


Oh sorry, I meant what are the rules of war when it comes to a country like Russia invading another country, since another poster said Russia was breaking war rules. What would the rules for Russia be in this case, is what I meant.



Seriously?
You can't work that out for yourself?


Well I would assume that invasions in general go against the rules, but that is just my assumption. The poster before was saying it as some specific code of conduct during an invasion was broken.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 May 2022, 10:10 pm

ironpony wrote:
When it comes to the rules of war what are the rules of a nation wants to take over another nation?


Why not just plug rules of war in to Google and see what it coughs up?

As it turns out, the rules of war, the law of war, is very much a thing and there seem to be lawyers who specialize in it.
I tried it just now and found things like,

:arrow:
Quote:
10 things the rules of war do
19 October 2016
The rules of war, also known as international humanitarian law:

from The International Committee of the Red Cross

and

:arrow:
Quote:
The 'Rules Of War' Are Being Broken. What Exactly Are They?
June 28, 201810:43 AM ET

on NPR

and

:arrow: at the US Department of Defense a 1236 page PDF, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE LAW OF WAR MANUAL
Description of Changes Promulgated on May 31, 2016

a few excerpts from the foreword, preface, and introduction,

Quote:
The law of war is a part of our military heritage, and obeying it is the right thing to do.
But we also know that the law of war poses no obstacle to fighting well and prevailing. Nations
have developed the law of war to be fundamentally consistent with the military doctrines that are
the basis for effective combat operations. For example, the self-control needed to refrain from
violations of the law of war under the stresses of combat is the same good order and discipline
necessary to operate cohesively and victoriously in battle. Similarly, the law of war’s
prohibitions on torture and unnecessary destruction are consistent with the practical insight that
such actions ultimately frustrate rather than accomplish the mission.


Quote:
1.3 DEFINITION OF THE LAW OF WAR
For the purposes of this manual, the law of war is that part of international law that
regulates the resort to armed force; the conduct of hostilities and the protection of war victims in
both international and non-international armed conflict; belligerent occupation; and the
relationships between belligerent, neutral, and non-belligerent States.6


Quote:
1.3.2 The Law of War’s Relationship to Other Bodies of Law. An issue that often
confronts law of war practitioners is the relationship of the law of war to other bodies of law,
especially when rules in those bodies of law may appear to conflict with rules reflected in the
law of war. These apparent conflicts are often resolved by considering the principle that the law
of war is the lex specialis governing armed conflict.11 How a law of war rule relates to a
particular rule that is not grounded in the law of war may depend on the specific legal rule in
question.

In general, the law of war may relate to other bodies of law through: (1) law of war rules
superseding rules in other bodies of law with respect to armed conflict; (2) construing the rules in
other bodies of law to avoid conflict with law of war rules; (3) law of war rules informing the
content of general standards in other bodies of law, should such standards be construed to apply
to armed conflict; and (4) law of war treaties explicitly incorporating concepts from other bodies
of law.

In some cases, it may be difficult to distinguish between these approaches, and different
entities may apply different approaches to achieve the same result.12 Although there are different
approaches and although the ultimate resolution may depend on the specific rules and context,
the law of war, as the lex specialis of armed conflict, is the controlling body of law with regard
to the conduct of hostilities and the protection of war victims.13

1.3.2.1 The Law of War as the Lex Specialis Governing Armed Conflict. The
maxim lex specialis derogat legi generali means that “[a]s a rule the special rule overrides the 10
general law.”14 The rule that is more specifically directed towards the action receives priority
because it takes better account of the particular features of the context in which the law is to be
applied, thus creating a more equitable result and better reflecting the intent of the authorities
that have made the law.15
The law of war has been developed with special consideration of the circumstances of
war and the challenges inherent in its regulation by law. Thus, for example, the exigencies of
armed conflict cannot justify violating the law of war.16 Moreover, lawmakers sometimes have
considered peacetime rules appropriate to apply during armed conflict, and in certain of these
cases, they have explicitly incorporated such concepts into the law of war.17
Thus, traditionally, the law of war has been described as the only “authoritative rules of
action between hostile armies,” or as superseding ordinary law in the actual theater of military
operations.18 Similarly, law of war treaties have been viewed as a clear example of a lex
specialis in relation to treaties providing peacetime norms concerning the same subjects.19



Quote:
1.3.2.2 Construing Other Laws to Avoid Conflict With the Law of War. Potential conflicts between the law of war and other law may be resolved by construing such other law to
avoid conflict with law of war rules.
Underlying this approach is the fact that the law of war is firmly established in customary
international law as a well-developed body of law that is separate from the principles of law
generally applicable in peace.20 Lawmakers have been understood not to amend that well-
developed body of law, absent affirmative evidence of an intention to do so.21 In a similar
fashion, for comparison, the GC deliberately excludes from its application the nationals of
certain States in order to avoid creating complications or inconsistencies in procedures should
both the GC and the law applicable to normal diplomatic representation apply.22
In some cases, treaties explicitly clarify that they do not affect States’ rights under the
law of war.23 For example, the 1944 Chicago Convention on civil aviation explicitly provides
that it does not affect the freedom of action of States during armed conflict.24 However, even
when not explicitly stated, infringements on the law of war through international agreements that
primarily address situations other than armed conflict are not to be presumed.25


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Pepe
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19 May 2022, 2:20 am

Quote:
Analysis: Vladimir Putin knows a quick victory in Ukraine has become impossible - now he's settling in for the long haul

Vladimir Putin is coming to realise his best option would be to wage a years-long, protracted war in Ukraine - giving himself the optimum platform to be re-elected as Russian President in 2024.
Alexey MuravievSkyNews.com.au Contributor

May 19, 2022


https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/a ... erallPos=5


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.