Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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magz
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23 Feb 2022, 10:03 am

And Little Green Men never existed, yes? Or were they orchestrated by Washington, too? BTW, congratulations for shipping up over half a million protesters without leaving trace. [/sarcasm]

With all respect - I'm not rerlying solely on "Western media". It happens for example that my distant relative used to live in Donyetsk region. He had to fly because for his Western ties, he was sentenced to death as a "traitor". That's the "freedom" and "security" we're talking about.


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carlos55
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23 Feb 2022, 10:28 am

magz wrote:
And Little Green Men never existed, yes? Or were they orchestrated by Washington, too? BTW, congratulations for shipping up over half a million protesters without leaving trace. [/sarcasm]

With all respect - I'm not rerlying solely on "Western media". It happens for example that my distant relative used to live in Donyetsk region. He had to fly because for his Western ties, he was sentenced to death as a "traitor". That's the "freedom" and "security" we're talking about.


The “little green men” your referring to happened in Crimea in 2014 made up of the Russian army, but the Russian army was there already stationed there for the last 300 or so years.

Even when Ukraine became independent they allowed the Black Sea fleet to remain.

Ive not Heard- the term “little green men” used in relation to these two republics.

Russia officially abolished the death penalty around 1991 I’m not aware of any “death penalty” in that part of the world.

Of course your western family member living in a predominantly Russian area under seige is going to be made uncomfortable and will likely have death threats made against them by the local population but that’s not the same as arrested and sentenced to death otherwise they would indeed by dead.


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magz
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23 Feb 2022, 10:34 am

1. My family member isn't Western. He's Russian-speaking East Ukrainian.
2. Who says death sentence was made by any legal court? Who said any legal courts exist in the "republics"? They were "traitors" and got direct death threats from the separatists.
3. If you know nothing about Little Green Men in Eastern Ukraine then you weren't following the topic. Which wouldn't have been a sin if you didn't claim you know more about it than "mainstream media" do.


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The_Walrus
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23 Feb 2022, 11:00 am

Well said, magz.

I don’t doubt that many people in Donbas feel more Russian than Ukrainian, but I also think the conflict would have collapsed a long time ago if the Russians hadn’t kept stoking it.



carlos55
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23 Feb 2022, 11:03 am

magz wrote:
1. My family member isn't Western. He's Russian-speaking East Ukrainian.
2. Who says death sentence was made by any legal court? Who said any legal courts exist in the "republics"? They were "traitors" and got direct death threats from the separatists.
3. If you know nothing about Little Green Men in Eastern Ukraine then you weren't following the topic. Which wouldn't have been a sin if you didn't claim you know more about it than "mainstream media" do.


Death threats by the separatists / local population is exactly what I meant and yes things would be crazy in an area of land under an emergency cut off from any national system of police / courts while under bombardment.

I’m still confused by your term “little green men” unless you mean the Russian army has rolled into these areas?

In which case maybe/ probably now since the decision on Monday.

I’m sorry for what happened to your family member and I’m not saying Russia is an angel now or historically but this crisis was certainly whipped up by Washington in its drive to put its missiles on russias borders with NATO expansion.


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magz
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23 Feb 2022, 11:28 am

It was a "public secret" that Russian army with removed distinctions was present in the region not controlled by Ukrainian government. Russian soldiers mysteriously died in "accidents" during "exercises".

As with any crisis, everyone tries to gain or at least not lose, including Washington - but it all started with Yanukovych refusing to sign EU-Ukraine treaty that had been earlier negotiated and people starting mass protests over it. NATO was only hovering as a distant possibility when things went military.


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24 Feb 2022, 11:08 am

Well, it’s happened Hitler … ( Putin) has invaded the Sovereign Nation of Ukraine . And the UK and NATO are not going to lift a finger .. although it might result in a WW3 scenario , if they do …..? Because they do not want War , and because the Ukrainian gov. Has most likely already been seriously undermined .
So because it is not happening to them , Ukraine will suffer the consequences . This thought process could be applied
To any smaller Nation now. And now we have a country being slaughtered along with its population .
Next , this may sound aweful , but am quite sure that Trump while he was in office . Gave Putin the go ahead on
Any action like this based on : during their buddy buddy interactions , Trump probably advised Putin of the rest of the world not being willing to stomach a War that might have many casualties, Or possibly result in many countries engaging in a world war. Regarding slowing or stopping Putin.
I wish , I had been in Las Vegas , so I could have put odds on this type of thing happening. I would be wealthy .
No mainstream news network is showing any of this occurring in real time here . it’s almost offensive that, we the Sheeple are being treated in such a way .

Oddly enough the Country of Russia, does not have anywhere near the same Landmass it has had as the USSR .
But yet the world is afraid to engage them. Then wait a year or two , and the domino effect will occur as Russia then
Will do the same with all bordering countries . Estonia Latvia ,etc. Ukraine is the domino that controls the Black Sea.

Am quite sure Trump most likely is gleefully calling Putin . Saying , See it’s just like I said , The world has no stomach for War .So enjoy your conquests . IMHO


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24 Feb 2022, 1:21 pm

Yep….Trump thinks he’s the life of the party.



kitesandtrainsandcats
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24 Feb 2022, 2:01 pm

It wasn't said here until me saying it right now; the plastic model building community has been quite concerned about the conflict because several well known and much loved kit manufacturers and aftermarket parts manufacturers are in Ukraine & as well as buying their products we care about the people who are the ones living there and making those things.

They are in danger and they are not happy campers about it.

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24 Feb 2022, 2:56 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
thinkinginpictures wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I see very little possibility that Russia will invade the Ukraine. Putin is flexing his muscles and trying to avoid a further expansion of NATO troops towards Russia's borders. He's a pragmatist, and is neither crazy or stupid.


People said exactly that about Hitler in the 1930s.


Yeah, I don't think we're dealing with Hitler here.


Even though the invasion has now begun, I still consider thinkinginpictures' posts to be hysterical anti-Russian nonsense. It's just ridiculous that he, living in Denmark (?), thinks his way of life is under threat from any of this. He also refuses to consider or research the extent to which the West has helped to create this crisis with the eastward expansion of NATO and other provocations towards Russia for the past 20 years or so.

The trouble is people like him have a constant World War 2 narrative (or the Hollywood version of it) running in their heads, where the West are always the good guys, and other countries are run by "mad dictators" who want to "take over the world" and who can never have any legitimate grievances nor ever be reasoned with.

I thought Americans and Brits were hysterically anti-Russian, but thinkinginpictures takes the biscuit.



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24 Feb 2022, 3:58 pm

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Just look at him eyeballing Peter’s crown.
You can tell he wants to break the glass and crown himself Czar.
He’s a known jewelry thief.
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/here ... kraft/amp/


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24 Feb 2022, 4:17 pm

RIP Ukraine, soldiers from all over the world, and ditto for tax dollars.


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24 Feb 2022, 4:44 pm

Is it nuclear war yet?

We need a smilie for sleepy.


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24 Feb 2022, 4:53 pm

Jakki wrote:
Well, it’s happened Hitler … ( Putin) has invaded the Sovereign Nation of Ukraine . And the UK and NATO are not going to lift a finger .. although it might result in a WW3 scenario , if they do …..? Because they do not want War , and because the Ukrainian gov. Has most likely already been seriously undermined .
So because it is not happening to them , Ukraine will suffer the consequences . This thought process could be applied
To any smaller Nation now. And now we have a country being slaughtered along with its population .
Next , this may sound aweful , but am quite sure that Trump while he was in office . Gave Putin the go ahead on
Any action like this based on : during their buddy buddy interactions , Trump probably advised Putin of the rest of the world not being willing to stomach a War that might have many casualties, Or possibly result in many countries engaging in a world war. Regarding slowing or stopping Putin.
I wish , I had been in Las Vegas , so I could have put odds on this type of thing happening. I would be wealthy .
No mainstream news network is showing any of this occurring in real time here . it’s almost offensive that, we the Sheeple are being treated in such a way .

Oddly enough the Country of Russia, does not have anywhere near the same Landmass it has had as the USSR .
But yet the world is afraid to engage them. Then wait a year or two , and the domino effect will occur as Russia then
Will do the same with all bordering countries . Estonia Latvia ,etc. Ukraine is the domino that controls the Black Sea.

Am quite sure Trump most likely is gleefully calling Putin . Saying , See it’s just like I said , The world has no stomach for War .So enjoy your conquests . IMHO


Ukraine and Belarus. The rest are Nato countries. Russia's military spending is a tiny fraction of Nato's.

The West is not going to do nothing: there will be sanctions, and the US will replace Russia's natural gas. This means: the US will sell their fracking-oil and gas to Europe, delaying Germany's plans to establish natural gas as a bridge to 100% renewables. Europe needs that cheap Russian natural gas, so they won't happily support sanctions, but the US will get their way.


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KMCIURA
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24 Feb 2022, 5:22 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Jakki wrote:
Well, it’s happened Hitler … ( Putin) has invaded the Sovereign Nation of Ukraine . And the UK and NATO are not going to lift a finger .. although it might result in a WW3 scenario , if they do …..? Because they do not want War , and because the Ukrainian gov. Has most likely already been seriously undermined .
So because it is not happening to them , Ukraine will suffer the consequences . This thought process could be applied
To any smaller Nation now. And now we have a country being slaughtered along with its population .
Next , this may sound aweful , but am quite sure that Trump while he was in office . Gave Putin the go ahead on
Any action like this based on : during their buddy buddy interactions , Trump probably advised Putin of the rest of the world not being willing to stomach a War that might have many casualties, Or possibly result in many countries engaging in a world war. Regarding slowing or stopping Putin.
I wish , I had been in Las Vegas , so I could have put odds on this type of thing happening. I would be wealthy .
No mainstream news network is showing any of this occurring in real time here . it’s almost offensive that, we the Sheeple are being treated in such a way .

Oddly enough the Country of Russia, does not have anywhere near the same Landmass it has had as the USSR .
But yet the world is afraid to engage them. Then wait a year or two , and the domino effect will occur as Russia then
Will do the same with all bordering countries . Estonia Latvia ,etc. Ukraine is the domino that controls the Black Sea.

Am quite sure Trump most likely is gleefully calling Putin . Saying , See it’s just like I said , The world has no stomach for War .So enjoy your conquests . IMHO


Ukraine and Belarus. The rest are Nato countries. Russia's military spending is a tiny fraction of Nato's.

The West is not going to do nothing: there will be sanctions, and the US will replace Russia's natural gas. This means: the US will sell their fracking-oil and gas to Europe, delaying Germany's plans to establish natural gas as a bridge to 100% renewables. Europe needs that cheap Russian natural gas, so they won't happily support sanctions, but the US will get their way.


Well, Germans put a brake on almost finished Nordstream 2 pipeline before US announced sanctions. Their high level politicians have also admitted that it was a mistake to view this project as a business affair only.

When it comes to Russia's status on international arena, it has been downgraded from a superpower to being a world's resource supplier. Their budget relies heavily on export of gas, oil, coal, precious metals but also grain. Most of production was sold to Europe. If the business links are severed, this will be a double-edged sword. Over here, we will be hit with massive price hikes of energy, food and other goods, which is a rather bad prospect. There will be a huge scale economical crisis. But this also means that Russia will be starving for money to fuel their war machine AND will also be in crisis.

They can of course sell their natural resources to China, but China will have an upper hand in any negotiations and will be able to get heavily discounted deal when it comes to pricing. By selling their good to China for cheap, Russia will earn enough to get by, but will also feed growth of one of their biggest rivals on geopolitical arena. Yes, these two countries often share common interests, but it is a matter of convenience, not mutually friendly bond.

What sucks the most is that US, Germany and few other countries backed off from denying Russia an access to SWIFT. Why? Because it will be bad for business. There are even politicians who openly say that it will hit the wealthiest, both in western countries and Russia, and that it must be an absolute last resort. As always, people's lives matter less than money of the rich.

When it comes to other countries bordering with Russia, the situation is a bit different. Ukraine has a large Russian minority and in region of Donetsk people identifying as Russians (or neo-Russians) are the majority. This has helped Putin to destabilise the eastern part of Ukraine by igniting and fuelling separatist movements. He won't be able to do the same with Estonia, Latvia, Poland, because there are no significant Russian minorities and their enclaves over here. So there's no chance of using the same strategy - if he ever decides to invade, it will have to be a very aggressive campaign, facing NATO forces head-on. Ukraine isn't a part of NATO and it was weakened by years of war within its borders.

As for Belarus - it is a puppet country for decades now. And seeing that Lukashenko "gave" Russia a freedom of positioning their troops, crossing border and doing hit and run raids from Belarusian territory, we can safely say that Belarus is no more - this is just a label for what is de facto a region of Russia.

If this conflict will indeed spark WWIII - lets hope that Putin is still sensible enough to believe in MAD doctrine. Otherwise, my country (and many others) will most likely end up being a radioactive path of ground separating western Europe from Russia.



shlaifu
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24 Feb 2022, 6:00 pm

^^ Nordstream2 has been a contentious issue for years, but the Germans, when in doubt, will side with American interests. The US is the hegemonic power in that part of the world.
That doesn't mean it's good for anyone, because frankly, the US doesn't even have the best in mind for its own citizens.


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