Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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ASPartOfMe
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10 Oct 2022, 11:09 pm

Biden vows air defense systems for Ukraine after missile attack

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U.S. President Joe Biden pledged to Ukraine President Volodomyr Zelenskiy on Monday that the United States will provide Ukraine with advanced air systems after a devastating missile barrage from Russia.

Biden spoke by phone with Zelenskiy to give assurances about continued U.S. support and to condemn the "senseless attacks" from Russia that hit civilian targets.

"President Biden pledged to continue providing Ukraine with the support needed to defend itself, including advanced air defense systems," a White House statement on the phone call said.

Biden also told Zelenskiy the United States and its allies and partners would continue imposing costs on Russia, "holding Russia accountable for its war crimes and atrocities, and providing Ukraine with security, economic, and humanitarian assistance," the White House said.

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lostonearth35
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11 Oct 2022, 6:16 pm

I'm really depressed. I guess there's nothing I can do but lie down and wait to die. I wish I could, but my anxiety won't let me.

nadyia
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11 Oct 2022, 9:55 pm

I'm frustrated beyond belief.

All sides are beyond reckless.
There were heaps of opportunities to negotiate a compromise over the last year, but both sides kept coming up with excuses.
What are they actually aiming for? Fossil fuel hegemony, stocks and bonds going up on Wall Street or their Russian counterpart, or what?

*btw I'm neither Ukrainian nor Russian --- other EE --

goldfish21
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12 Oct 2022, 1:20 am

Uk figures putin's russia getting desperate:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... 0e607c7273

Makes sense. Hopefully they just lose and go home vs. go nuclear.

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magz
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12 Oct 2022, 1:42 am

nadyia wrote:

I'm frustrated beyond belief.

All sides are beyond reckless.
There were heaps of opportunities to negotiate a compromise over the last year

Can you give me a couple of examples of these "heaps of opportunities"?
Preferably with descriptions of the desired "compromises": What Russia shows to be willing to give up? What Ukraine can afford to give up?
How to ensure this "compromise" wouldn't be another Minsk Agreements, only buying time to regroup and try again?

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cyberdad
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12 Oct 2022, 2:14 am

Interesting podcast from Tulsi Gabbard on the secret war waged by the US military industrial complex against Putin using Ukraine as chess pieces.

I agree with her, the stakes seem remarkably high, if Putin chooses to not lose face and launch nuclear weapons (as he has threatened to do) then it literally means the end of the world.

The video Gabbard is referring to, released to New Yorkers if Putin launches a nuclear attack is this one

If you follow the nice lady's instructions you will likely delay your death by several hours if you are lucky before you slowly die of radiation poisoning,

And the reason we are pledging our very lives for Ukraine is??

magz
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12 Oct 2022, 2:22 am

cyberdad wrote:

I agree with her, the stakes seem remarkably high, if Putin chooses to not lose face and launch nuclear weapons (as he has threatened to do) then it literally means the end of the world.

Not necessarily.
Seeing how poorly Russian army does, it's entirely possible NATO can defeat them with conventional forces only.
That's the plan announced in case of tactical nuclear weapons being used or other form of military damage reaching NATO territory - and it looks realistic.
But the most desired plan for NATO is to let Russia collapse without such confrontation. Similarily to how the Cold War ended.

cyberdad wrote:

And the reason we are pledging our very lives for Ukraine is??

In my case: because if Russia succeeds in Ukraine, we'll be next.
In the case of everyone else: because if Russia succeeds in Ukraine, it will encourage every agressive dictator to try the same. And it will prove nuclear blackmail works.
And chances for someone launching the bomb at some point would become even higher.

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ASPartOfMe
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12 Oct 2022, 3:34 am

We are in a cycle. Putin threatens to use nukes and does not do anything and loses credibility while the West feels emboldened and does more. Putin threatens and does nothing again, the west feels yet more emboldened, does more and the cycle goes on. If this goes on the west will conclude Putin is all bluff and they are free to do whatever they damn please. This might be true or Putin might reach a point where he or a person who overthrows him concludes using a nuke is the only way to regain credibility.

The assumption has always been that once a nuke of any sort is used the slippery slope toward inevitable world destruction has begun. Due to the stakes that might not be true. The combination of the stakes and the uncertainty is unnerving, to say the least.

As far as that Public Service announcement it is as ridiculous as those hiding under our desks duck and cover drills from my elementary school days. The best place to be in New York in case of a nuclear attack is midtown Manhattan because you will be vaporized instantly. I am 20 miles outside of midtown so my death might be a slow agonizing one. My "hope" would be that since the region would be targeted by multiple warheads one will target my area directly.

magz
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12 Oct 2022, 3:52 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:

We are in a cycle. Putin threatens to use nukes and does not do anything and loses credibility while the West feels emboldened and does more.

What exactly does the "emboldened" West do?

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cyberdad
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12 Oct 2022, 4:09 am

magz wrote:

But the most desired plan for NATO is to let Russia collapse without such confrontation. Similarily to how the Cold War ended.
.

The problem is Putin knows this as well. it may well be that he never launches nuclear missiles but by agitating his giant ego we are playing a game of "Russian Roulette" where those spinning the wheel will likely have nuclear bunkers to wait out a nuclear winter and the rest of us "Schmucks will pay the price.

magz
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12 Oct 2022, 4:17 am

cyberdad wrote:

magz wrote:

But the most desired plan for NATO is to let Russia collapse without such confrontation. Similarily to how the Cold War ended.

Unfortunately, just like with regular narcissists living among us, an ego giant enough can be agitated by literally anything you do or don't do. And just like countless psychologists tell us on how to approach our regular narcissists: the only person responsible for what Vladimir Putin does is Vladimir Putin.

The only thing the rest of us can do is: prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

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nadyia
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12 Oct 2022, 4:18 am

cyberdad wrote:

Interesting podcast from Tulsi Gabbard on the secret war waged by the US military industrial complex against Putin using Ukraine as chess pieces.

interesting video, thanks.
I gather you're from the US.

The theory that's now circulating on our alternative media sites concerns fossil fuel.
Following the 1990 BASF/Wintershalk-Gasprom alliance, Germany and Russia were becoming increasingly more powerful geopolitical players in Europe. On top of that, Russia is now building pipelines outside of Europe too.

The bottom line is, you have to be naiive to think that America is throwing away billions like bonbons, unless there's some ulterior gain.
This, when they can't even feed their homeless or subsidize treatments for their cancer patients.

Putin started this war, but I'm sure American Elites will become richer due to it, like in ww2.

magz
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12 Oct 2022, 7:58 am

I agree everyone has their motives but I disagree these motives need to be ulterior. They can be much simpler.

Like, here, we're very motivated to help Ukraine because we don't want to be next. Selfish? Kind of. Ulterior? I wouldn't say so.

In case of US, I believe they simply want to keep their leading position in the world.

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kraftiekortie
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12 Oct 2022, 9:11 am

Relative democracy versus strident, bullcrap autocracy-----that's the choice many in eastern and central Europe have.

I respect those who lived under a Soviet-style system, and don't want it again!

goldfish21
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12 Oct 2022, 11:16 am

magz wrote:

Yes, in all cases there is mutual benefit or people and governments wouldn't be aligning themselves with Ukraine to smash the russians back. It's not just about right and wrong, it's about protecting other countries as well as maintaining power & control for sure.

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goldfish21
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12 Oct 2022, 9:43 pm

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