I changed my mind on Putin

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I thought it was? I thought Kievlian Rus simply changed its name into Russia at some point?

If you say it wasn’t, from where did Russia emerge? And did Russia and Kievlian Rus ever exist as two separate countries at the same time?

Ethnic groups with shared histories and languages can through circumstance drift apart, and gain whole new national identities. After all, Germany, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and Austria all have common ethnic and linguistic origins, but today regard themselves as different nationalities with their own histories.
Same with Russia and Ukraine. In that case, the Ukrainians have seen the Russians as aggressors and exploiters in recent centuries, spurring on the Ukrainians to have their own national identity.

My understanding is that the Tsardom of Muscovy is the state that Russia directly emerged from and that the Tsardom of Muscovy was originally elevated to prominence as a vassal state by the Golden Horde.

Multiple Rus city-states existed in the period prior to the Mongols of which Kievan Rus was one, Vladimir, Moscovy, Novogorod are some examples of others. These city-states would have had some degree of shared identity, but they were never combined into a nation state.

Kiev was the 'most senior' of the Rus city states for awhile but gradually lost prestige and those city-states started to fight among themselves. The city was besieged by other Rus princes in the 1230s and then burned to the ground by Batu Khan in 1240. In 1320 the area passed into the control of the Lithuanians, but still ultimately under the Golden Horde. In 1362 Lithuanians drove out the Golden Horde.

Russia should not claim that Ukrainians are Russians.

This is rather like saying that Americans are British—except in reverse.

An analogous situation would be one where Americans were the “older” state, the British broke from the Americans, and now the Americans are claiming that the British are actually Americans.

Indeed, I would agree that Kievan Rus’ was an “ancestor state” of both Muscovite Russia and Ruthenia.

Today’s Russia is the direct descendant of Muscovite Russia. Ukraine is one of the direct descendants of Ruthenia.

Russians and Ukrainians are more like close cousins than brothers.

Nothing you nor I can do about it.
Why worry until it happens.

Serenity prayer:
"To accept the things I cannot change; Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference. "

Also, I adhere to the Federation's Prime Directive:
"The Prime Directive (also known as "Starfleet General Order 1", "General Order 1", and the "non-interference directive") is a guiding principle of Starfleet that prohibits its members from interfering with the natural development of alien civilizations.[1]"

I am here to observe you hoomans, not to interfere in your petty politics.
If you choose to skrew yourselves, so be it.
I will make a footnote of the end of humanity in The Hitch Hiker's Guide To The Universe.

Good luck.
You hoomans will need it.

Exactly. In fact its more like the British Empire.

Imagine if the Queen, and Boris Johnson, together decided to invade the Indian subcontinent to undo what Gandhi did ,and restore the British Raj...or undo what George Washington did...and send armies to reconquer us here in the American colonies...and attacked Kenya, and Tanzania...etc etc..

Exactly. During the Dark Ages there were many rival city states among the Slavic peoples of extreme eastern Europe known as "Rus". Kiev was emerging as the greatest. And a unified Russian state probably would have coalesced around Kiev, and would have become a unified Russia. But a Russia with the Ukrainian people (and their language dominating). But in the 1200s Kiev was laid waste by the Mongols and Genghis Khan. Burned to the ground and massacred. So the Moscow principality to north, with its main rival gone, took off, and became the center of the emerging Russian state.The luck of the draw so to speak.

Hm, I've heard that Russia tricked the Ukraine ... but

IMHO the history shouldn't matter if the population of a country wants to stay independent.

The people of the Ukraine do not want to be part of Russia and do not want to live under Putin's political regime. A few small sections closer to the Russian border have more diverse opinions on the issue, but the line that Putin has tossed about "liberating" the people is propaganda, not truth.

Putin is former KGB and a bully. He knows what to say, but actions speak louder than words.

This helps explain it.

So it took a whole week for somebody to agree with me? what happened to the brains trust on this forum?

These are not good examples since Europeans entered Africa and India as invaders and evil overlords the first time.

Ukraine has historic, linguistic, ethnic, religious and cultural contacts with the rest of Russia since the beginning of time. Ukrainians are the biggest minority in Russia with hundreds of thousands of people of dual ancestry living in both Ukraine and Russia.

Not with Moscow.
Raise of Moscow was all about brutal conquering other Russian duchies, including massacre of Novgorod - one of the two cradles of Ruthenian culture, the other one being Kiev that resisted such a "unification" for centuries.

Moscow likes the narrative of "Mother Russia" but from Kievan point of view, Moscow is just a bully younger sister trying to control the whole family.

Funeral's example was the Nazi occupation of Europe. Trouble is that the Nazi occupation of Europe was thought of as criminal at the time. And Hitler only enslaved Europe for less than four years.

The British Empire was taken as being legit by the western world, and also it lasted a few centuries. So the British Empire is a much more comparable entity to the Russian Empire (both that of the Czars, and that of the later Soviets) than Hitler's occupation of Europe.

The empire of Czarist Russia (which became the old Soviet Union) was essentially a colonial Empire, much like those of Spain, Portugal, France, and Britain. The only difference being Russia's empire was not based upon sea power because its colonies became contiguous with the mother country on land.

If you remove ocean Czarist Russia was much like the British Empire under queen Victoria.

That part of the modern Russian Republic that is west of the Urals (Russia-in-Europe) is the governing part of both Russia and its colonies. Its the equivalent of "England".

The former Soviet Republics west of the Urals (ie also in Europe) -namely- Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, and the Ukraine, are equivalent to Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, in the UK.

The former Czarist, later Soviet, ruled areas in Central Asia, and the Caucasus, ( Armenia, Georgia, Azergijan, Kazahkistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenostan) are the equivalent of Britains colonies in Africa and in Asia (Egypt, India, Nigeria).

And that part of the modern Russian Republic east of the Urals (ie in Asia) is Siberia. Siberia is the equivalent of Austalia ( an empty wilderness, a storehouse of raw materials, and a dumping ground for convicts).

So after the fall of the Soviet Union Russia was reduced to the Russian Republic itself... the equivalent of England-plus-Australia. Both its AfroAsian colonies, and its European associated nations had all split away (the equivalent of the UK losing India and Ireland).

Imagine if England were to elect a Mussolini type fascist dictator. And imagine if that dictator were bent on restoring the Old British Empire ala under Queen Victoria. And imagine him using military force to try to reconquer the fomer colonies to achieve that. Thats Putin. Putin is known to have longed for the restoration of the old Soviet Union- ie to reunite the form soviet republics into one geopolitical unit. His first victim happened to be European (like Ireland). Though his dress rehersal for his invasion of Ukraine was his brutal suppression of Chechnya (an Asian type Muslim ethnic minority region within the Russian Republic).

Well, it doesn't matter who you are, if that's your take you're only repeating the official Russian position and completely missing Ruthenia and later Ukraine's history.