Why I don't think there are "Xinjiang atrocities"?

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SkinnedWolf
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30 Mar 2022, 2:06 pm

magz wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
The banning standard is determined by the platform itself, and the platform usually greatly exceeds the government standard for its own security (although we do not know what "government standard" is).
I wonder if the platforms themselves know...
Unclear rules and possibility of harsh punishments promote overzeal.

I have not run a platform. But there are some signs that they probably don't know.
A. Different platforms have huge differences in the details of the standard. However, because the platform does not expose these standards, it requires very good proficiency in each platform to master. This standard changes irregularly.
B. Some platforms even ban words such as "kill" and "die". It doesn't make any sense to the authorities.

There is an old saying in China that "if the punishment is unknown, the power is unpredictable".
I think that non-disclosure of standards may have the following benefits for governments:
A. The newly revised standards are very sensitive, and often the government wants to go unnoticed.
B. When it comes to the approval of cultural products, having higher freedom in standards will bring revenue to the relevant departments.
C. Put more pressure on the platform, so that the platform can prevent incidents more sensitively than the official.

But most new negative social events are free to talk about.
In some cases, these discussions will attract a lot of attention, and there is a high probability that the government will come forward to resolve the incident.
There are also cases where the discussion itself is not prohibited. But related discussions don't appear prominently. It's unclear whether it was the platform itself or a government request. When the influence is large enough, this transforms into the former.
In the rarest cases (of course "rare" is inaccurate since I don't hear about these events), the discussion is outright banned.


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SkinnedWolf
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30 Mar 2022, 6:18 pm

I tried to find a perspective from a "typical" Uyghur.

I tracked all the answer records of a Uyghur active on a question-and-answer platform after 2018. (a big project)
He claimed to be "the father is Uyghur and the mother is Mongolian", "Muslim", "Communist", "the inheritor of Khumai (a special Mongolian singing method)". From Ili, Xinjiang. Born around 2000. Currently studying in Henan University.
His speech involved a lot of Uyghur/Mongolian culture/language/history, showing photos taken inside the mosque, and sharing life content in many places suggesting his special appearance.
So I think his identity has a high degree of credibility.

Some speeches are sometimes in colloquial Chinese, which I have slightly modified to accommodate the translation software while retaining the original meaning.
Some of the speeches were off topic, and I only intercepted the key parts. The full text can be viewed via the link.
I have intercepted all his political views (except communist philosophy) and life sharing involving Xinjiang/Muslim/Uyghur, not deliberately selected. Any content does not represent my opinion.
anti-US/UK content warnings

What do you think of the white paper "Several Historical Issues in Xinjiang" issued by the State Council Information Office?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/336065952/answer/760750927

Quote:
The Uyghurs (uygur) mean unity and cooperation, and are a multi-source ethnic group. If we compare the appearance of the Uyghurs in the eastern area with the Uyghurs in the Kashgar area, we can find that some Uyghurs are almost the same as the Han Mongolians, and many have single eyelids. Moreover, most of the Uyghurs are descendants of the Uyghurs, and they have been blending with other ethnic groups in the process of development. Only a few are Turks. So just because some Uyghur ancestors are Turkic to demand Uyghur integration into Pan-Turkic, I can only laugh.


What do you think of the BBC's claim without evidence that "a large number of Uyghur women have been collectively sexually assaulted and tortured"?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/442948814/answer/1752700376
Quote:
We can't imagine what we haven't seen done
When we frame others and have no evidence, we are most likely to refer to what we have done
This applies to everyone
In other words, the bbc's framed accusation shows that their country has done so.


I would like to ask everyone, what is Xinjiang like now?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/263484382/answer/2372854016
Quote:
Stability with progress
Since the arrival of the new secretary
There are fewer security checkpoints, and it is more humane. This time I only checked my mobile phone once when I went home, and the key word is still very common "Dad" (Uighur)

This seems to imply that the use of Uighur on social media could be censored in Xinjiang for cellphone content

Why protect minority languages?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/286064796/answer/2339470188
Quote:
I feel like I don't need to say more, everyone understands what I'm trying to say

He hinted that the Uyghur language environment has regressed in recent years

"Marx" and "Lenin" appeared at a wedding in India. What impact did communism have on the local area?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/499987724/answer/2336917277
Quote:
The Communist Party will liberate India!


Biden issued a statement saying that "the top leader of the "Islamic State" committed suicide in the US military attack. What other details should be paid attention to?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/514691168/answer/2334592197
Quote:
What we should be wary of now are extremists hiding among civilians, who are currently "more terrifying to us than terrorists who openly come out to fight with weapons"


What are some academic terms that are easily misunderstood by ordinary people?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/365069639/answer/2330658419
Quote:
Jihad in Islam is easily misunderstood as "sacred-war", but it actually means struggle.
But the sacred-war ended when the Muslims took Mecca back. All those who are now in the name of sacred-war are doing bad things and have their own bad purposes.
All jihad is for yourself, and Allah is omnipotent and does not need you to fight for him.


What do you think should be done to strengthen the unity of the Chinese nation?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/503649628/answer/2330009114
Quote:
Zhou Enlai pointed out that the customs and religious beliefs of ethnic minorities must be respected.

He may be implying that minority customs or religious beliefs are not fully respected.

Why can't China make zombie disaster films like Resident Evil and Train to Busan? Is it because of the SARFT?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/50579794/answer/2329988552
Quote:
No matter what disaster happens, please move closer to the party branch closest to you
Law always has legal effect


Who can tell me why I am alive?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/57065901/answer/2328713004
Quote:
For the realization of communism
Realizing the Chinese Dream of the Great Rejuvenation of the Chinese Nation


There are good and bad comments about the Taliban on the Internet. Can you share your views?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/481274601/answer/2328462329
Quote:
People's Government!


Why did the Versailles system propose one nation/language and one country?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/512857879/answer/2321708613
Quote:
Language is an important part of a nation's culture

He suggested he was unhappy with the current government's handling of the Uighur language

Should the Chinese be disgusted and opposed to Tsarist Russia, the Soviet Union, and how Russia should respond to Putin's expansion?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/24962363/answer/2314431595
Quote:
recognize the real interests
When America was beaten down by us
we can fight against russia


What do you think of Kazakhstan as a country?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/39768893/answer/2311518419
Quote:
Kazakhs country with strangely confident


Is there any necessary connection between race and religion?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/38822289/answer/2300784818
Quote:
There is no necessary connection. Adhering to the separation of races and religions starts from me.

As a Uyghur Muslim, this statement is strange. He may be against indoctrinating non-Muslim Uyghurs with Islam.

The White House denies inciting the unrest in Kazakhstan, accusing Russia of "spreading false information". Russian media said that the United States has not been mentioned. What information is worth paying attention to?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/510168075/answer/2300776128
Quote:
Thousands have now died.
There must be foreign intervention, this event feels like Urumqi in 2009. It's a pity that some foreign kz criticized our government at that time.
Support governments to quell unrest, except in the United States.

I don't understand what he means by "kz"

What do you think of Xinjiang uncle helping tourists and showing party badges in order to refuse tourists who insist on giving money?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/509572598/answer/2296456613
Quote:
This is what we Xinjiang people look like.
simple. good.
Apart from the incidents that occurred due to brainwashing by extremist ideology, I believe that you have never heard of being robbed or hacked in the pastoral areas of Xinjiang.


Which notorious terrorist organizations do you know?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/425581785/answer/2262023748
Quote:
the United States of America


Foreign media said that an explosion at a mosque in northern Afghanistan killed more than 100 people. What is the real situation?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/491266416/answer/2164295974
Quote:
Divide Muslim groups from within to achieve unrest in Afghanistan
Come on America!


I just met two Mongolians. I asked them in Mongolian if they were Mongolians, but they answered me in Chinese. Why?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/448959312/answer/2146907940
Quote:
A few of us Uyghurs sit together and speak in a mixture of Uyghur and Chinese. Some people have been speaking Uighur. Some people have been speaking Chinese.


What do you think of a freshman in Hubei University of Technology who was "dissuaded" by the school for secretly photographing the bottom of a girl's skirt?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/487264310/answer/2127934320
Quote:
Support school practices. Because I have older sister and younger sister.

(Additional content posted in the comment area)
Quote:
Will there be an only child of the Uyghur ethnic group?


How to evaluate people who are inclined to the Taliban on the Internet?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/481061440/answer/2099822563
Quote:
The Taliban are not terrorists. In my country, the Taliban are only considered rebels.


What do you think of the self-media article on NetEase, "The Taliban who won, are taking 12-year-old girls from house to house"?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/479444137/answer/2060046804
Quote:
It is very similar to the tone of foreign reports about a certain place in northwest my country.

He seems to be implying that there are false reports about Xinjiang from abroad

How is the ethnic language education of ethnic minorities today?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/35154584/answer/2041991815
Quote:
Shh. I dare not discuss this topic.

He seems to imply that there is a problem with Uyghur education

Judging from the history books, the Han people did not bully the ethnic minorities. Why do they keep saying that the Han people bullied them?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/474941838/answer/2020897897
Quote:
None. There really isn't. National solidarity. You are right.

He is implying that he thinks historically the Han Chinese have bullied the Uyghurs

Why do Xinjiang people look like Arabs?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/37207973/answer/1966093995
Quote:
Excuse me
unlike


How do you view China's support for Argentina's legitimate claim to the Falklands? Why does China support Argentina?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/467311565/answer/1966075067
Quote:
Who can stand the arrogance of the UK?
my country generally does not interfere in various political affairs of other countries.
Unless it's unbearably disgusting.
The UK has made random accusations against Hong Kong and Xinjiang in the past two years. Anyone who suffers from such a thing will feel disgusted.


How can I persuade my classmates to give up the ethnic hatred they hold in their hearts?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/444348019/answer/1791905243
Quote:
startle me.
At first I thought it was the kind of hatred towards minorities.
Don't persuade him. It is completely unacceptable for the West to relax its vigilance at present, and it is also impossible for Japan.


All about Uyghur girls and Han boys falling in love and getting married. I really hope someone can give some advice. I heard that there are also examples of Uyghur and Han marriages in Zhihu?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/38969882/answer/1281848337
Quote:
My dad is Uyghur and my mom is Mongolian, it's really hard. Grandparents look down on them. Personally, I strongly disapprove of intermarriage.


What are the regional rules that need to be observed in various parts of China?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/397389361/answer/1247390916
Quote:
Xinjiang
Avoid certain things
Although we oppose the generalization of halal now, but for the sake of national unity and our own safety, we still need to pay attention

He warns others about the taboos of Islam in Xinjiang

Why do only a few people in China have body odor? And foreigners almost have body odor?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/52576029/answer/1207964064
Quote:
8,000 years ago, a group of East Asians underwent a pitch shift, and most of this shift existed in typical ethnic groups in East Asia such as the Han and Miao.
As a Uyghur, I was trembling, because some of my classmates wouldn't even let me use headphones...

"Trembling" is a popular hyperbole on the Internet.
Because of a special genetic mutation, most East Asians do not have body odor. Possession of body odor is seen as a disadvantage in East Asia. Most Uyghurs do not have this genetic mutation.
He hinted that his classmates rejected him in some ways because of his body odor.

What do you think of Hui and Halal?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/306355406/answer/555915615
Quote:
My father hates the Hui people very much, and the Hui people he knows have very bad behavior.
Maybe it's because the Hui classmates around me are so good, I don't feel the same as my father, the Hui people around me are not halal like me...
However, some Hui people are really disgusting to find trouble in the name of religion and ethnicity, and as far as I know, there are still quite a few


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magz
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31 Mar 2022, 2:58 am

Is the site you cite government-approved?

Because, you see:
You asked some time ago about "virtue" of leaders. In democratic systems, we don't believe in it. Instead, we believe in transparency - when everyone can watch the leaders' hands, anyone can raise alarm when leaders do something wrong.
This requires tolerance to criticism and false alarms - but the upside is, we don't need to rely on mystical beliefs to have our leaders do the right things.
There's even a concept that leaders are servants of the people - not the other way around.

You yourself pointed out unclear rules of online communication. With unclear rules and possibility of arbitrary punishments, the best way to survive is not to stick out. So, people won't let publish content that they think the government wouldn't like. They are likely to get overzealous in praising the leaders, instead.
This is why I won't trust any government-approved source. It's not only about China. Where I live, multiple independent media, local and international, are a way to get better view on the truth - each may have their own biases but when you get many diverse sources with different agenda, you can tell actual facts from the agenda.

It's impossible when all media are controlled by one entity. The only way the West would trust Chinese government would be letting independent observers in. Every observer might have their agenda but none is strong enough to silence the others, so they need to agree about the facts. That's how it's done here.


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magz
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31 Mar 2022, 3:35 am

What I saw in the answers you cite:

1. A confirmation that Uighur language and culture are actually targeted (part of what we consider "cultural genocide");
2. Strong and agressive anti-UK propaganda;
3. Viewing the US as the enemy, almost calling for a war with them;
4. Praise to the Savior Goverment! :eew:
5. Quite a lot of racism;
6. Propaganda against Muslim extremism - that's actually a view common with the West, Muslim extremism is dangerous to anyone in the world, regardless of the system (it's dangerous to the Muslim extremists themselves, too);
7. But the Taliban are not considered terrorists 8O

Honestly, it looks like zeal to please the government and it hints outright hostility towards the West.
If this is common narrative in China, I'm afraid the new Cold War has already started.


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SkinnedWolf
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31 Mar 2022, 4:44 am

magz wrote:
Honestly, it looks like zeal to please the government and it hints outright hostility towards the West.
If this is common narrative in China, I'm afraid the new Cold War has already started.

The content I quoted is from the public platform. All content is allowed to be reproduced.

At this point in time, it's hard to see someone like him who likes the government. Not a common phenomenon. I have seen this attitude in a friend of mine in the past, whose family was helped by the government from extreme poverty to a moderately prosperous one, maybe this applies to this Uyghur. If a person does not want to praise the government, he will choose silence, or tell sarcastic jokes (as this person does on certain issues). I don't think censorship has much impact here, censorship can't change a person's mind, only propaganda can.
It's hard for me to generalize whether people are all so hostile to a particular country. But one phenomenon is that they generally distrust the United States. When I read some of the pro-state media's deliberate reference to the United States, Trump's chanting "China" came to my mind.
I swear I've never seen anyone praising the Taliban anywhere else. This shocked me. But this confirms that he is indeed a devout Muslim.Chinese Muslims often make some very strange remarks to us.
Racist tendencies. extensive. If you do random sampling, you'd be hard-pressed to find people in the Chinese who are as "cautious" in the face of possible cultural clashes as I am.

In the details of many words, the CCP embodies the concept of "officers are servants of the people". But how they enforce this remains to be seen.


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cyberdad
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31 Mar 2022, 5:01 am

The Tuija language is Sino-Tibetan. Do you follow Mahayana buddhism?



SkinnedWolf
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31 Mar 2022, 5:11 am

cyberdad wrote:
The Tuija language is Sino-Tibetan. Do you follow Mahayana buddhism?

No. The language of our ethnicity is close to death, so it is not taught in schools. We don't have our own character. Now we use a Chinese dialect.
I know nothing about the vocabulary and grammar of our ethnic language. Speakers of this language can only be found from scholars and from very closed mountains.

I am sure I am an atheist. We belong to the northern branch of Tujia. I don't recall Buddhism having much influence in our autonomous region.
The most widely accepted claim is that we are descended from the Ba State, with close ties to our mother river. These appear in museums in the autonomous region.


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SkinnedWolf
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31 Mar 2022, 6:55 am

Another Uyghur speech.
Because she answered the question about the difficulty of switching between Uighur and Chinese, I think her identity is credible.
Of course, because of the censorship, I suspect I'll miss the speeches of Uyghurs who are vehemently opposed to Xinjiang policies. So this is still a Uighur who rejects the "genocide" accusation.
I don't recommend reading the following to anyone who hates expressing their love for the government.(This rough sampling shows that Uyghurs have higher government support than the Chinese average, perhaps because the CCP has helped them solve some of the difficulties)

What do you think of Nike, Uniqlo, GAP, Zara and other brands that have issued a statement of "banning Xinjiang cotton" on their overseas official?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/451069593/answer/1800045160

Quote:
As a Uyghur youth who is "oppressed" and "genocide" in their mouths, some of you may not know what Xinjiang used to be like, but I do. Because I grew up in this land.
In the long history of thousands of years, this land has always been a place full of turbulence and ups and downs. How many forces have appeared in the competition, and finally ended dismal. This place was once turbulent, like hell, and even human life was like grass. . Even in modern times, the common people living in this land are still being oppressed, bullied, and enslaved. Those "Master Bayi", those bureaucrats, those warlords, those guys who are riding on our heads to make a fortune, eating and drinking our flesh and blood, and even knocking on the bones and sucking the marrow, how incredible.
It was not until the sonorous declaration on Tiananmen Gate, until the sun and the moon changed to a new sky, until after so many years, when they felt the most real changes in this land, many people in this land seemed to understand that those suffering days long gone. What kind of light will greet us in the future.
The darkness and scars of this land in history, I can only understand from books, but as being born and raised here, empathizing with, seeing and hearing, it makes me more confident and certain about all this.
My country, my party, my government. It is real and intentional, in this country, on this land, to practice a mighty feat that the whole world and even all human beings have dared to imagine for thousands of years.
That is to eliminate all poverty, so that all Chinese people are no longer poor.
Difficult, how dare you say it's not difficult?
Perhaps you have all heard or even understood how difficult it is. A harsh and harsh environment is a difficulty, the gap between language and culture is a difficulty, and a concept that is difficult to change in a short period of time is a difficulty. Even what some call "ethnic inferiority" is a difficulty. In short, this is a difficult road destined to consume manpower, material resources and even energy, but it is difficult to achieve results in a short period of time.
But he just did it, they, they did it, those thousands of practitioners who engraved their oaths and promises in their actions, they did it.
I have not walked with them, nor have I seen their sweat and tears, nor can I measure the road they have traveled on this land. The road must be rough and long. But how could no one know about this. The rolling mountains will be remembered, the whistling sands of the desert will be remembered, the silent flowing river and the standing Populus euphratica will be remembered; there are thousands of thousands here because of your selfless guidance and help, because of your sincerity and love. How can we not remember when we give and see and hope to see the light?
The human heart is made up of flesh. Who is really good to us, will we not know?
The rapid changes in this land over the years are you, us, and everyone who loves this land, our homeland, and this country. With our diligence, with our hard work, and down-to-earth step by step, we have come out step by step; we have done it with our hands, brick by brick.
And you, we, have a common name, Chinese.
The bond of all these does not have to depend on the region, does not have to rely on the nation, or even does not have to rely on the blood and blood in the mouth of some people. It is because the recognition of this country is the inevitable result of the gradual integration of different cultures, the enthusiasm for heart-to-heart, and the deep friendship that the majority of working people and the proletariat can empathize with most.
For a long time in the future, Xinjiang may continue to be the reason for the enemy to attack us, but such an indestructible bond, even with the despicable tricks of the demons and the verbal abuse, can it hurt us?
(Personal note: The emotional color of this paragraph is actually not as strong as "Demon". But I can't find the right word. Her expression is too literary.)
How can those arrogant, short-sighted and ignorant Westerners understand this great emotion.
They only see a rising and terrifying China, but they cannot see the inevitable road that leads China to prosperity and greatness, forged by the faith and enthusiasm of countless people behind it.
This path, all of us Chinese will walk out together, treat other elderly people as the elderly in our own family, and treat other children as children in our own family, so that the poor can rely on them. Compared with the robbers who are still clamoring for "human rights" in the faint light guarding the lighthouse, when the gushing red sun rises from the east, the world will finally take on a new look.


I've also never seen anyone expressing their love for the government on a Q&A platform with such strong emotions. This is definitely a rare phenomenon.
In contrast to the previous example, this Uyghur is eager to modernize. She doesn't eat pork, but doesn't seem to be a Muslim. According to her, the CCP has influenced Uyghur culture before, but she believes this is justified because it is something that must be done in economic development.

What are some behaviors that make people inadvertently reveal their identity?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/51657224/answer/532795076
Quote:
A friend of mine once went through security at an airport in a non-Xinjiang area of China. The security check lady said, "You are from Xinjiang at first sight"
My friend was surprised and said "how did you know"
The young lady smiled and said, "Untie the belt when you come in, and then put it back in half. Only you can do this."

This shows that there are very strict security checks in Xinjiang, and you even need to take off your pants.
People in the comment area encouraged her to wait for this special period to pass.

Why do you identify with PRC (People's Republic of China)?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/66471880/answer/243907472
Quote:
My grandfather, my grandfather, and other ancestors were poor farmers.
Just ask the older generation what kind of life the peasants in Xinjiang lived before liberation.
Why not agree?
Such great kindness and virtue are comparable to reconstruction.

The two "grandfathers" refer to the paternal and maternal line, respectively.
"reconstruction" roughly means: like my other parent.


_________________
With the help of translation software.

Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


Pepe
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31 Mar 2022, 7:41 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Another Uyghur speech.

Quote:
As a Uyghur youth who is "oppressed" and "genocide" in their mouths, some of you may not know what Xinjiang used to be like, but I do. Because I grew up in this land.
In the long history of thousands of years, this land has always been a place full of turbulence and ups and downs. How many forces have appeared in the competition, and finally ended dismal. This place was once turbulent, like hell, and even human life was like grass. . Even in modern times, the common people living in this land are still being oppressed, bullied, and enslaved. Those "Master Bayi", those bureaucrats, those warlords, those guys who are riding on our heads to make a fortune, eating and drinking our flesh and blood, and even knocking on the bones and sucking the marrow, how incredible.
It was not until the sonorous declaration on Tiananmen Gate, until the sun and the moon changed to a new sky, until after so many years, when they felt the most real changes in this land, many people in this land seemed to understand that those suffering days long gone. What kind of light will greet us in the future.
The darkness and scars of this land in history, I can only understand from books, but as being born and raised here, empathizing with, seeing and hearing, it makes me more confident and certain about all this.
My country, my party, my government. It is real and intentional, in this country, on this land, to practice a mighty feat that the whole world and even all human beings have dared to imagine for thousands of years.
That is to eliminate all poverty, so that all Chinese people are no longer poor.
Difficult, how dare you say it's not difficult?
Perhaps you have all heard or even understood how difficult it is. A harsh and harsh environment is a difficulty, the gap between language and culture is a difficulty, and a concept that is difficult to change in a short period of time is a difficulty. Even what some call "ethnic inferiority" is a difficulty. In short, this is a difficult road destined to consume manpower, material resources and even energy, but it is difficult to achieve results in a short period of time.
But he just did it, they, they did it, those thousands of practitioners who engraved their oaths and promises in their actions, they did it.
I have not walked with them, nor have I seen their sweat and tears, nor can I measure the road they have traveled on this land. The road must be rough and long. But how could no one know about this. The rolling mountains will be remembered, the whistling sands of the desert will be remembered, the silent flowing river and the standing Populus euphratica will be remembered; there are thousands of thousands here because of your selfless guidance and help, because of your sincerity and love. How can we not remember when we give and see and hope to see the light?
The human heart is made up of flesh. Who is really good to us, will we not know?
The rapid changes in this land over the years are you, us, and everyone who loves this land, our homeland, and this country. With our diligence, with our hard work, and down-to-earth step by step, we have come out step by step; we have done it with our hands, brick by brick.
And you, we, have a common name, Chinese.
The bond of all these does not have to depend on the region, does not have to rely on the nation, or even does not have to rely on the blood and blood in the mouth of some people. It is because the recognition of this country is the inevitable result of the gradual integration of different cultures, the enthusiasm for heart-to-heart, and the deep friendship that the majority of working people and the proletariat can empathize with most.
For a long time in the future, Xinjiang may continue to be the reason for the enemy to attack us, but such an indestructible bond, even with the despicable tricks of the demons and the verbal abuse, can it hurt us?
(Personal note: The emotional color of this paragraph is actually not as strong as "Demon". But I can't find the right word. Her expression is too literary.)
How can those arrogant, short-sighted and ignorant Westerners understand this great emotion.
They only see a rising and terrifying China, but they cannot see the inevitable road that leads China to prosperity and greatness, forged by the faith and enthusiasm of countless people behind it.
This path, all of us Chinese will walk out together, treat other elderly people as the elderly in our own family, and treat other children as children in our own family, so that the poor can rely on them. Compared with the robbers who are still clamoring for "human rights" in the faint light guarding the lighthouse, when the gushing red sun rises from the east, the world will finally take on a new look.


I've also never seen anyone expressing their love for the government on a Q&A platform with such strong emotions. This is definitely a rare phenomenon.


This is actually disturbing.
Fanatical.


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Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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31 Mar 2022, 7:48 am

Based on the current survey results, my personal opinion is:
Some false propaganda about Xinjiang will actually make Uyghurs unite with the CCP rather than the other way around.

This is also my previous guess.


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31 Mar 2022, 7:52 am

I understand that China has progressed considerably over the past 20 years or so.

I understand that Xinjiang was, over all, probably worse in previous years than now for the common person.

And I understand there might be a perception that "westerners" are interfering with the culture within Xinjiang.

Still, putting people in "re-education camps," and other authoritarian/oppressive measures, from an objective standpoint, is not exactly something which any objective person from any ethnicity would be delighted in.



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31 Mar 2022, 8:12 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I understand that China has progressed considerably over the past 20 years or so.

I understand that Xinjiang was, over all, probably worse in previous years than now for the common person.

And I understand there might be a perception that "westerners" are interfering with the culture within Xinjiang.

Still, putting people in "re-education camps," and other authoritarian/oppressive measures, from an objective standpoint, is not exactly something which any objective person from any ethnicity would be delighted in.

Charges with clear evidence may work. Apparently they were also dissatisfied with some of the overly harsh inspections.

But too much false content is mixed in, the content that most Chinese people, especially Xinjiang people, can see, and it will only have the opposite effect.
And considering that sanctions on Xinjiang cotton will hurt the interests of Uyghurs working there. This is not a wise choice.

This result is predictable.


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31 Mar 2022, 11:01 am

A lot of talk about Uyghur language, Uyghur national origin identity, Islam. Credible identity.

Why is Taiwan so anti-intellectual?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/396054353/answer/2314400962

Quote:
The extremists that existed in Xinjiang before, they judged whether an issue conforms to religion, the criterion is not how the doctrine stipulates, but how the Han people think and do it. They believe that what the Han people do is anti-Islamic, and the opposite of what the Han people do is Islamic orthodoxy. Their definition of what constitutes religion depends only on how the Han see it.
Back then, at the Great Temple in Yecheng County, Kashgar, Wahhabi extremists attacked the Imam, saying that his behavior and views were the same as those of the Han people, accusing him that he was not an orthodox Muslim, and that Muslims could not be like the Han people. The imam told him that the way of drinking water with his mouth is the same as that of the Han people, and suggested that he should not drink water with his mouth in the future, but should drink water with his nose or ears.


Intel deleted the Xinjiang-related content in the open letter. What signals does this send?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/510954423/answer/2306083961
Quote:
Very cunning means, both sides are not offended, both sides can cope.
The obvious announcement was deleted, there was no clear statement, and no corrective measures were taken. After dealing with public opinion in China, they can continue to do business in China. In action, it complied with the requirements of the United States, did not hire workers in Xinjiang, did not use Xinjiang products, and did not expressly oppose the rumors, in fact, it fully cooperated with the allegations of the United States.
Not only Intel is doing this, but many multinational companies are actually doing this. They have learned it well and will not publicly express their rejection of Xinjiang migrant workers and products, but they will not hire Xinjiang migrant workers and Xinjiang products.
As long as they are not forced to publicly express their stance, and they are not forced to hire Xinjiang workers and use Xinjiang products, they can use this cunning method to escape from the disputes between China and the United States. The only victim of the whole thing is Xinjiang, China. Xinjiang people are still being violated by these companies on equal employment rights, and Xinjiang products are still being boycotted.


Netizens broke the news that Sam and Wal-Mart have removed Xinjiang products, and the APP cannot find Xinjiang-related content. What's going on?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/508088598/answer/2284555849
Quote:
Are they starting to take action on Xinjiang's agricultural and sideline products now? This is to cut off the income source of the local minority farmers and herdsmen in Xinjiang, undermine the poverty alleviation in Xinjiang, and return millions of people in southern Xinjiang to the poverty and backwardness of a few years ago.
In Xinjiang, the urbanization rate of different ethnic groups is different, and the economic development patterns of different ethnic groups are also different. In order to absorb various other objective factors, most of the agricultural and sideline products in Xinjiang are produced by the local minority. In particular, the producers of local fruits and specialty snacks in Xinjiang are basically mostly local farmers and herdsmen in Xinjiang, and most of them are family-based production models. Moreover, these agricultural and sideline products are the most important source of income for the absolute majority of families in southern Xinjiang, the pension money for the elderly, the education money for children, and the source of life for the family. This is the most important way for poverty alleviation and alleviation in southern Xinjiang, where there is no other source of income besides these special fruit products. If these products cannot be sold, these tens of thousands of people will lose their main income.


What do you think of the clarification letter issued by Intel, "The paragraph on Xinjiang is only for the purpose of expressing compliance and legality, not its intention or position"?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/507904459/answer/2283407599
Quote:
Okay, let's take Intel's clarification letter seriously first, and assume that Intel's original intention is not to express its position on "forced labor", and treat it as Intel's unique way of expressing its original intention. It does not express its position why it is forbidden to hire workers from Xinjiang. Intel clearly states that its supply chain cannot hire any workers from Xinjiang. This is a clear violation of Xinjiang people's right to fair employment, racial discrimination and exclusion of Xinjiang people, and racism. How did discrimination become "the original intention of compliance and legality"?
<Quote from Intel statement>
To sum up, this racist behavior that prohibits the employment of workers in Xinjiang has fully expressed Intel's position. Therefore, this official letter is just trying to make excuses with no intention of repentance. Not only does it not apologize, it does not admit mistakes, and it does not correct it, but it also pretends to be a well-meaning person who has been misunderstood and wronged, playing with words to downplay and justify racist crimes.


Intel's letter to suppliers "banning Xinjiang products", what will be the impact?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/507622658/answer/2281072026
Quote:
Intel's refusal to hire workers from Xinjiang region and its suppliers are not allowed to hire workers from Xinjiang region. This is blatant racial discrimination against Xinjiang people, humiliation and slander of Xinjiang people's dignity, and a serious violation of Xinjiang people's right to equal employment.
<Quote from Intel statement>
Only with a job can you support your family, with a job, you can improve your life, with a job, you can live a good life, and the right to apply for a job is guaranteed. This is the real human rights, the real care and protection. Refusing to be hired and dismissed without giving a job opportunity means that other people’s whole family will starve to death, isn’t it that they want to cut off the livelihood of our people in Xinjiang. Equal employment rights are also basic human rights.
I wonder if we Xinjiang people can sue Intel Nike and other illegal companies that refuse to hire employees in Xinjiang.


Where did the Han people in Urumqi come from?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/20922114/answer/2162106650
Quote:
Let’s clarify a question first: No matter who or which ethnic group they attack, as long as they deny the history of other ethnic groups and their indigenous identity in Xinjiang, they are treasonous separatists who undermine the unity of the country. Not attacking other ethnic groups, not acknowledging the history of other ethnic groups, denying that other ethnic groups are Xinjiang indigenous people, and insisting that all ethnic groups in Xinjiang are written by Xinjiang scholars, this is to maintain national unity and fight separatism.
Then answer the question: Most of the Han people in Xinjiang now came from the mainland after the founding of the People's Republic of China, and a small part came from the mainland during the Qing Dynasty and the Republic of China. This is the demographic data of District One in 1944. Similarly, most of the Uyghurs in Urumqi today came from other parts of Xinjiang to Urumqi in the Qing Dynasty and after the founding of the People's Republic of China, and a small part is the local Uyghurs in Urumqi. In fact, Urumqi is one of the regions where the Uyghurs formed a nationality, but the population decreased after the rule of the Junggars.
......
Therefore, there will never be a real winner when discussing the dispute over who moved the ancestors first in Xinjiang, and everyone can bring out an early ancestral element. And now the Uyghur and Han people are all Chinese. The Uyghurs not only live in Xinjiang, but also the Han people will not live in the interior. In the future, more and more Uyghurs will live in the interior. Therefore, arguing about this issue, attacking other ethnic groups, and arguing about who comes first is meaningless. Instead, it is all ethnic exclusion that creates barriers.


What photos or videos record your story of growing up with your motherland?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/489322223/answer/2149148510
Quote:
The greatness of a country is truly reflected in its people.
Hotan area is the most remote place in Xinjiang. In the past, because the remote roads in Hotan were too difficult to travel, the people of Hotan had almost no chance to go to Urumqi. If local cadres in Hotan needed to go to Urumqi to participate in the meeting, they all needed to give half a month's notice. It often happens that cadres dispatched from Urumqi to Hotan, as long as they go to Hotan once to visit relatives and go home, are no longer willing to return to Urumqi, even if they are demoted.
17 years ago, what I saw in the county towns and villages of seven counties and one city in Hotan, people traveled like this. Cars were basically invisible. Occasionally passing by a few motorcycles, it was a rare thing. The road from the county seat to the town government is simply hardened with sand and gravel. Other roads are dirt roads, and people cannot go to the county seat once a year.
Now Hotan has two desert highways and railways in two directions, and there are two airports in the east and west of Hotan. Not only people from Hotan can come out, but crops in Hotan can also come out. In the past, no one bought the fruit in the orchard, and the price was too cheap. The fruit on the bazaar was sold by charek (18 jin). Now it is sold by jin. Hotan completed the road to every village, and all the natural villages built roads to the door of the common people.


Why was the Qing Dynasty so dictatorial, with the creation of a literary prison, massacres of Han Chinese, and wanton oppression by foreign powers, yet still being able to rule China for so long?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/417126146/answer/2125599959
Quote:
As we all know, I believe that all ethnic groups in China and their history belong to China, and China is not tied to any single ethnic group or history. It is true that we cannot attack, hostile or deny with the tragedies in history, but it does not mean that we must beautify and deny the tragic history. I don’t need the historical records left by the victims. After all, some people don’t trust me, and they will definitely charge me with slandering the Qing and inciting hatred. So I plan to use Chinese documents, and also translations of Qing Manchu historical documents. .
<Citations to prove the history of Uyghurs being suppressed by the Qing Dynasty>


What do you think of dozens of women marching in Afghanistan to support the Taliban regime?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/486356996/answer/2123262941
Quote:
Afghanistan has a population of more than 30 million people, and the Taliban, which kills people without blinking an eye, can only force dozens of women to perform and march in support.
Hitler organized thousands of German Jews to perform Nazi "humanism" in concentration camps. Shame on the Taliban's level of performance.


Why does Afghanistan require women to be tightly wrapped? The less they wear in Europe and the US, the more they leak, and even streaking means advanced?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/485917424/answer/2115198268
Quote:
The problem in Afghanistan is not what women wear, but what Afghan men force women to wear. Afghan women cannot choose whether to wear tights or not. Afghan women are required to wear tights.
Wearing less does not mean advanced. Even if the primitive tribe wears nothing, it is not regarded as advanced. The advanced is that people can freely choose what to wear. It is entirely up to individual freedom to wear less or more strictly. The advanced is that the people have the right to choose what to wear.


How do you feel when you watch "911" in the United States again after 20 years?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/485809453/answer/2113066746
Quote:
The nature of the 9/11 terrorist attack, no matter what the United States did in Iraq and Afghanistan, and what the United States will do in the future, will not change. A terrorist attack is a terrorist attack. Because 9/11 was a terrorist attack that simply attacked civilians, it was not a political or military battle between countries.
Likewise, the massacres of civilians by the United States in Afghanistan and Iraq will not be changed by the massacres of terrorist groups or warlords and dictators in Afghanistan and Iraq. The military forces in Afghanistan and Iraq have slaughtered people, but it does not mean that the United States can also slaughter people in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Not attacking civilians is the foundation of modern civilization. To condemn terrorists as inhumane, not because of conflict of interest, not because of political confrontation, not because of different ethnic or religious identities, but simply because terrorists attack innocent people.
So, 20 years later, I feel the same way about 9/11 as I did before, nothing has changed.


How to correctly view the approach of the Afghan Taliban?
https://www.zhihu.com/question/480268810/answer/2068714728
Quote:
A few years ago, terrorists appeared in Xinjiang, undermined the stability of Xinjiang, massacred the people, tried to build a religious extremist state, attacked innocent people in Xinjiang and some cities in the interior, and committed unforgivable crimes. Excusing crimes against humanity, those violent terrorists and terrorist organizations are absolutely absolutely bad.
The Afghan Taliban have done all the bad things and evil things that these thugs have done, and they have done more than what happened in China. They have done bad things and evil things that these thugs cannot do. The Afghan Taliban is the version of those thugs occupying the country, pushing extremism into the country, and covering the state of the country with its scourge. So, is the Afghan Taliban good or bad?
I don't care about the situation in international politics. No matter how the netizens snap their hats and attack, I will never think that an extremist organization that kills people like weeds and harms the people is good. This is my bottom line.


The third category of representatives.
Calm. Condemn sanctions. Against the Taliban and Uyghur terrorist groups.


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31 Mar 2022, 3:39 pm

Interesting. We in the west are so arrogant we ignore the principle of moral relativism whereby other societies see the world differently and respond differently to the same external events.

I am growing to be less globalist than I was in my younger years, I was fortunate to live in Asia for many years and it taught me that people can think/live differently. Simply speaking a different language borne from a seperate culture can make one think differently.



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31 Mar 2022, 9:00 pm

there's a book by Pankaj Mishra, "From the ruins of Empire". It deals with three nationalist movements that formed at the end of the 19th century in colonized regions of the world - India, China and the middle east. Of these, the middle eastern movement was the one based on religion, as the peoples that were oppressed by mainly the British and French, were diverse and spread out over a vast area, but did share a religion. The idea was to form their own empire, a kalifate.

China and India became nation states, each with their own share of upheaval, but the middle east is still carved up along the borders the British had drawn, and the idea of a kalifate is still very much alive. The US have had their trouble with beating down uprisings to maintain the economic order which grants them access to cheap oil. But in China, it is within the territory of the nation.

I wouldn't know how to deal with a muslim nationalist movement in my country either, so I don't blame China any more than I blame the US for the heavy handedness and violence with which they try to get rid of this threat.
But I do blame the US for their torture and prison camps, and I do blame China for the same.

Eventually, if China does not eradicate the Uyghurs entirely, now that they started these actions, they have a ticking (human) time bomb of islamic nationalism on their hand. you could argue they already have, and rather than leaving the territory to the people there, they decided to do what a 19th century empire would have done.
For me, from far away, all I can say is: let's wait 50 years and see if that was smart.
Or maybe a hundred. Maybe the Uyghurs will survive and call it their "century of humiliations"


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31 Mar 2022, 9:21 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Or maybe a hundred. Maybe the Uyghurs will survive and call it their "century of humiliations"

I would doubt the definition of "Uyghur" in this context.
In pan-Chinese cultural circles, the government is traditionally seen as the "parent". On the one hand, it will give the government a great space for centralization, and on the other hand, it will make citizens expect the government to solve all social problems.
If the CCP ends its grip on religious extremists, I strongly suspect that it will be the Uyghurs of other factions who will be the first to begin to resent this.

So far, other Islamic countries have not opposed it.


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