07 Mar 2022, 5:12 pm
funeralxempire
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07 Mar 2022, 5:23 pm
r00tb33r wrote:
There is only one Russia.
...and Ukraine doesn't seem to want to be a part of it.
07 Mar 2022, 5:39 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
There is only one Russia.
...and Ukraine doesn't seem to want to be a part of it.
I meant there's no such thing as "Putin's Russia". When Ukrainians hate on Russia, there is only one Russia to hate. There is only one solution to that hate, and that is a fight. One side will have to win that fight.
funeralxempire
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07 Mar 2022, 5:53 pm
r00tb33r wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
There is only one Russia.
...and Ukraine doesn't seem to want to be a part of it.
I meant there's no such thing as "Putin's Russia". When Ukrainians hate on Russia, there is only one Russia to hate. There is only one solution to that hate, and that is a fight. One side will have to win that fight.
It's more debatable if there's a such thing as Putin's Russia and I think that's essentially a second front in the campaign. If more Russians end up opposed to the war, regardless of their rationale for opposing it opens up the possibility of eroding his public support. If the conflict is seen as shameful and something Russians don't want to have associated with themselves or their nation that creates a gap between 'support for Russia' and 'support for Putin' and it weakens him.
Military morale and public support are still relevant concerns for dictators after all.
07 Mar 2022, 5:57 pm
funeralxempire wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
There is only one Russia.
...and Ukraine doesn't seem to want to be a part of it.
I meant there's no such thing as "Putin's Russia". When Ukrainians hate on Russia, there is only one Russia to hate. There is only one solution to that hate, and that is a fight. One side will have to win that fight.
It's more debatable if there's a such thing as Putin's Russia and I think that's essentially a second front in the campaign. If more Russians end up opposed to the war, regardless of their rationale for opposing it opens up the possibility of eroding his public support. If the conflict is seen as shameful and something Russians don't want to have associated with themselves or their nation that creates a gap between 'support for Russia' and 'support for Putin' and it weakens him.
Military morale and public support are still relevant concerns for dictators after all.
You seem to have missed the point of my post completely.
My post is about hate. It is not about the war. My post is about the fact that ending the war won't end the hate of Ukrainians toward Russians. I very much meant that to end the hate they will have to fight it out.
funeralxempire
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07 Mar 2022, 6:03 pm
r00tb33r wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
There is only one Russia.
...and Ukraine doesn't seem to want to be a part of it.
I meant there's no such thing as "Putin's Russia". When Ukrainians hate on Russia, there is only one Russia to hate. There is only one solution to that hate, and that is a fight. One side will have to win that fight.
It's more debatable if there's a such thing as Putin's Russia and I think that's essentially a second front in the campaign. If more Russians end up opposed to the war, regardless of their rationale for opposing it opens up the possibility of eroding his public support. If the conflict is seen as shameful and something Russians don't want to have associated with themselves or their nation that creates a gap between 'support for Russia' and 'support for Putin' and it weakens him.
Military morale and public support are still relevant concerns for dictators after all.
You seem to have missed the point of my post completely.
My post is about hate. It is not about the war. My post is about the fact that ending the war won't end the hate of Ukrainians toward Russians. I very much meant that to end the hate they will have to fight it out.
Most of the hate stems from the interference Russia has engaged in towards Ukraine, no? It will subside once Russia stops behaving the way it has and most likely that will require the Russian people to start pushing back against the Russian state.
There's many "solutions" to hate and the appropriate ones depend on the nature of what actually motivates the hate.
07 Mar 2022, 6:10 pm
07 Mar 2022, 6:26 pm
07 Mar 2022, 6:30 pm
MaxE wrote:
r00tb33r wrote:
^ I don't share that opinion. I think the Ukrainians will forever see Russians as the attackers who have hurt them...
...unless they fight it to the end, establishing one side as an undisputed historical victor, which is the point of my OP.
...unless they fight it to the end, establishing one side as an undisputed historical victor, which is the point of my OP.
40 years ago the Israelis invaded Israel. To this day the Lebanese hate Israel.
Wait, what?
07 Mar 2022, 7:44 pm
r00tb33r wrote:
Hate for Putin's Russia Consumes Ukraine
There is only one Russia. Ukranians now hate it more than ever. It's not possible to walk away from that hate. It will forever be an open wound, a grievance between the two people if the conflict isn't conclusively resolved. There will have to be a clear victor in the confrontation of force. There will be a side who has been clearly bested, and they will have to accept it as fact. Recovery may begin once the facts of the conclusion are accepted. For this reason the war shouldn't stop.
I've seen the bitterness of the Falklands War, it will only be worse in Ukraine if they aren't given a chance to fight to the extent of their ability.
There is only one Russia. Ukranians now hate it more than ever. It's not possible to walk away from that hate. It will forever be an open wound, a grievance between the two people if the conflict isn't conclusively resolved. There will have to be a clear victor in the confrontation of force. There will be a side who has been clearly bested, and they will have to accept it as fact. Recovery may begin once the facts of the conclusion are accepted. For this reason the war shouldn't stop.
I've seen the bitterness of the Falklands War, it will only be worse in Ukraine if they aren't given a chance to fight to the extent of their ability.
Have you seen the sister link?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/Hate for Trump's Republicans Consumes-Democrats.
It isn't a real link.
<satire>
07 Mar 2022, 7:47 pm
07 Mar 2022, 8:17 pm
Kraichgauer
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07 Mar 2022, 9:32 pm
07 Mar 2022, 9:48 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Will there continue to be hard feelings toward Russia among Ukrainians for years to come? Almost certainly. But as one generation gets old and dies off, their descendants will have less hostility. One time Germany was a pariah in Europe, but as the old WWII generation passes on, that's less likely to be felt by Germany's neighbors.
Poland and the Baltic States have not lost their fear of Russian imperialism with the passing of time.
07 Mar 2022, 10:13 pm
07 Mar 2022, 10:26 pm
