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Free Speech for Me but Not for Thee

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cyberdad
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03 May 2022, 1:13 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The reason the suicide rate is so high is that young people don't have "thick skins"

A lot of what is described as “thin skin” is misplaced priorities. If you are taught words are violence you will often react to words as if the are actual violence.

Also constant and instantaneous transmission of bad things from everywhere is a problem. There is often no context and nuance to this information. Skewed view of the world, no time to separate the bad from the really bad, no time to recharge. The world was just as bad if not worse when us “thick skinned” boomers grew up but we did not have the disadvantages the “thin skinned” zoomers have to deal with.


Seems to me certain segments of society want the privilege to pick and choose what is permissible to say because it suits their personal agendas rather than the benefit of wider society



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03 May 2022, 9:50 am

Evangelicals think that being banned from a platform or being called a bigot on comment boards for saying "f*g", "d*ke" or "tr***y" = Christian persecution


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03 May 2022, 9:53 am

cyberdad wrote:
. . . Seems to me certain segments of society want the privilege to pick and choose what is permissible to say because it suits their personal agendas rather than the benefit of wider society
"Segments" . . . each in their own way.



ASPartOfMe
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03 May 2022, 11:49 am

cyberdad wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The reason the suicide rate is so high is that young people don't have "thick skins"

A lot of what is described as “thin skin” is misplaced priorities. If you are taught words are violence you will often react to words as if the are actual violence.

Also constant and instantaneous transmission of bad things from everywhere is a problem. There is often no context and nuance to this information. Skewed view of the world, no time to separate the bad from the really bad, no time to recharge. The world was just as bad if not worse when us “thick skinned” boomers grew up but we did not have the disadvantages the “thin skinned” zoomers have to deal with.


Seems to me certain segments of society want the privilege to pick and choose what is permissible to say because it suits their personal agendas rather than the benefit of wider society


Pretty much every section of society. The difference now is that it has become permissible to openly favor censorship. :skull:


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03 May 2022, 11:54 am

Well why can't we teach society that not having censorship is a good thing, but they just have to ignore some jerks here or there, but that's totally ok.



cyberdad
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03 May 2022, 7:02 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well why can't we teach society that not having censorship is a good thing, but they just have to ignore some jerks here or there, but that's totally ok.


The problem is when you give free licence to the jerks the line between free speech and toxic bullying leading to suicide becomes blurry



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03 May 2022, 7:56 pm

I see what you mean. What if they made a law so that speech is free as long as you do not antagonize a specific invidividual with it. Voice your opinion, just not towards specific individuals directly?

Plus I don't see how it's bullying if it's online speech. If it's a boss at work, using abusive words to bully workers, than I totally agree. But if it's online, why are people affected by it when the bullies have no position of power over the other person, and a person can just get rid of a bully by changing the channel anytime they want. On the internet, the people who the bullies go after, have the complete upperhand in just tunning them out, so how are bullies getting the upperhand therefore?



cyberdad
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03 May 2022, 10:27 pm

ironpony wrote:
I see what you mean. What if they made a law so that speech is free as long as you do not antagonize a specific invidividual with it. Voice your opinion, just not towards specific individuals directly?

Plus I don't see how it's bullying if it's online speech. If it's a boss at work, using abusive words to bully workers, than I totally agree. But if it's online, why are people affected by it when the bullies have no position of power over the other person, and a person can just get rid of a bully by changing the channel anytime they want. On the internet, the people who the bullies go after, have the complete upperhand in just tunning them out, so how are bullies getting the upperhand therefore?


Yeah I know. I often hear "why don't they get off social media" or "switch off the TV", But that's the thing, people don't log off because why should people hide/go off the grid to avoid seeing inflammatory speech.



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03 May 2022, 11:29 pm

If people are being rude to each other why is the grid so exciting anyway then that it's worth even being on?



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04 May 2022, 12:36 am

ironpony wrote:
Pepe wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well I guess I would have to know is why do disagreements bother thin skinned people so much compared to someone who is more thicker skinned? If thick skinned people do not care and do not these disgareements bother them, then isn't that a more healthy way to live, rather than more thin skinned people constantly trying to think that any disgreements are going to hurt them and they are constantly worrying about that? That just seems less healthy to me.

Coddling people with thin skin makes them even more thin skinned, so the best thing to do is to let people like that know that having a thin skin is bad, and having a thick skin is good.


It isn't black & white (can we still use that expression today? :mrgreen: )
People who are traumatised need special consideration, but ultimately, it would be healthy if they could be desensitised from their triggers. I have read there are programs like that, such as in overcoming "Arachnophobia", as an example.

But generally speaking, it is my opinion that self-expression, without malice, shouldn't be restricted in most situations.

There is also another consideration.
The direction of self-expression.

A comment made to a general "audience" does not usually have the same emotional impact as when a comment is made specifically to an individual.
As you can see, there is complexity/nuances involved.

The wise old skunk has spoken. 8)


Oh but it seems that most progressives are against the idea of freedom of speech though, so does that mean that most progressives are victims of trauma though?


There is no clearly defined logical connection that I can see.
The progressive side of politics is more emotional in its philosophies, so it would stand to suggest there might be more people with emotional issues embracing that side of politics.
Suggesting "most progressives" is more than a bit of a stretch, however. 8)

ironpony wrote:
Plus another thing though, I myself am a victim of trauma, and that has caused me to develop a thick skin, and I was told this by others as well. So are most people who are traumatized thin skinned as a result, and I am unusual case?


Why ask me? :mrgreen:
I can only speculate. 8)



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04 May 2022, 12:40 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The reason the suicide rate is so high is that young people don't have "thick skins"

A lot of what is described as “thin skin” is misplaced priorities. If you are taught words are violence you will often react to words as if the are actual violence.

Also constant and instantaneous transmission of bad things from everywhere is a problem. There is often no context and nuance to this information. Skewed view of the world, no time to separate the bad from the really bad, no time to recharge. The world was just as bad if not worse when us “thick skinned” boomers grew up but we did not have the disadvantages the “thin skinned” zoomers have to deal with.


I disagree.
When I was a kid, we didn't have a drug problem.
When it cam over from Ammuuuria, the place fell apart.



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04 May 2022, 12:44 am

Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The reason the suicide rate is so high is that young people don't have "thick skins"
A lot of what is described as “thin skin” is misplaced priorities. If you are taught words are violence you will often react to words as if the are actual violence. Also constant and instantaneous transmission of bad things from everywhere is a problem. There is often no context and nuance to this information. Skewed view of the world, no time to separate the bad from the really bad, no time to recharge. The world was just as bad if not worse when us “thick skinned” boomers grew up but we did not have the disadvantages the “thin skinned” zoomers have to deal with.
Yes, we Boomers could often "get over it" long before the next assault came; but when a person is constantly inundated with hostile words and images that are seemingly directed at them, there is neither time nor opportunity to withdraw and "deal with it" effectively.  Some "thin-skinned" people may just have a form of PTSD* from the barrage of hostility and contempt, such that even the most innocent of terms might trigger an anxiety attack.

(*Disclaimer, I am not a mental-health professional.)[/color]


I have been harassed pretty much all my life, have PTSD as a result, but manage it extremely well.
I think society may inadvertently encourage more "thin-skinned" people these days.



ironpony
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04 May 2022, 2:29 am

Well is it really the internet that causes some people to kill themselves and it's not other things from before within people? For example how do we know it's the internet? Do they say it is before they commit suicide, or is there a specialist who is able to accurately determine that it was the internets fault while investigating the suicides?



cyberdad
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04 May 2022, 6:32 am

ironpony wrote:
Well is it really the internet that causes some people to kill themselves and it's not other things from before within people? For example how do we know it's the internet? Do they say it is before they commit suicide, or is there a specialist who is able to accurately determine that it was the internets fault while investigating the suicides?


It's a combination of things. But social media is an excellent place to anonymously harrass people you don't like.



cyberdad
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04 May 2022, 6:34 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The reason the suicide rate is so high is that young people don't have "thick skins"
A lot of what is described as “thin skin” is misplaced priorities. If you are taught words are violence you will often react to words as if the are actual violence. Also constant and instantaneous transmission of bad things from everywhere is a problem. There is often no context and nuance to this information. Skewed view of the world, no time to separate the bad from the really bad, no time to recharge. The world was just as bad if not worse when us “thick skinned” boomers grew up but we did not have the disadvantages the “thin skinned” zoomers have to deal with.
Yes, we Boomers could often "get over it" long before the next assault came; but when a person is constantly inundated with hostile words and images that are seemingly directed at them, there is neither time nor opportunity to withdraw and "deal with it" effectively.  Some "thin-skinned" people may just have a form of PTSD* from the barrage of hostility and contempt, such that even the most innocent of terms might trigger an anxiety attack.

(*Disclaimer, I am not a mental-health professional.)[/color]


I have been harassed pretty much all my life, have PTSD as a result, but manage it extremely well.
I think society may inadvertently encourage more "thin-skinned" people these days.


Apparently I have been warned about posting my negative experiences on these forums. So be careful.



ironpony
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05 May 2022, 12:12 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
The reason the suicide rate is so high is that young people don't have "thick skins"
A lot of what is described as “thin skin” is misplaced priorities. If you are taught words are violence you will often react to words as if the are actual violence. Also constant and instantaneous transmission of bad things from everywhere is a problem. There is often no context and nuance to this information. Skewed view of the world, no time to separate the bad from the really bad, no time to recharge. The world was just as bad if not worse when us “thick skinned” boomers grew up but we did not have the disadvantages the “thin skinned” zoomers have to deal with.
Yes, we Boomers could often "get over it" long before the next assault came; but when a person is constantly inundated with hostile words and images that are seemingly directed at them, there is neither time nor opportunity to withdraw and "deal with it" effectively.  Some "thin-skinned" people may just have a form of PTSD* from the barrage of hostility and contempt, such that even the most innocent of terms might trigger an anxiety attack.

(*Disclaimer, I am not a mental-health professional.)[/color]


I have been harassed pretty much all my life, have PTSD as a result, but manage it extremely well.
I think society may inadvertently encourage more "thin-skinned" people these days.


I am so sorry to heat. But this an example or why I prefer free speech over censorship. I too posted a PTSD scenario on an internet forum once, and got banned from the from as a result, with people saying it was offensive to them.

But I didn't bully anyone, and my speech was still censored even though I told a story of my own and didn't bully anyone. When you give people the power to censor, they will censor anything they want, even if there is no bullying involved. So when people say censorship is good because it cuts down on bullying, I don't think society having their liberties taking away, just to go after some bad apples, is a good thing.

People should not have to give up liberties just because some people like to insult people. Plus all these people who may be more thin skinned and sensitive to hearing insults, are also giving up their free speech liberties as well. So they don't realize that they are bending over in a way by doing that. If people are being bullied, bending over to having liberties taken away is still bending over.