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Johnnie
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04 Aug 2007, 7:46 am

greenblue wrote:
Johnnie wrote:
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the truth has set me free!


how do you know it's the truth, because somebody told you so :?:

Because it's in the Bible.


humans wrote the bible



Mitch8817
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04 Aug 2007, 8:24 am

Didn't God inspire them though, or something?


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Ragtime
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04 Aug 2007, 9:40 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
I fit your points, and others who don't disappoint me somewhat. Then again, my expectations of myself and others were always a bit high.


The problem is, you're so much higher up than the rest of us. When will we learn to just be like you? :|


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Last edited by Ragtime on 04 Aug 2007, 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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04 Aug 2007, 9:42 am

Johnnie wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Johnnie wrote:
Quote:
the truth has set me free!


how do you know it's the truth, because somebody told you so :?:

Because it's in the Bible.


humans wrote the bible


Well, humans created you too, so going by that logic, your opinions are no more valid than a book's teachings.


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Johnnie
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04 Aug 2007, 9:54 am

Ragtime wrote:
Johnnie wrote:
greenblue wrote:
Johnnie wrote:
Quote:
the truth has set me free!


how do you know it's the truth, because somebody told you so :?:

Because it's in the Bible.


humans wrote the bible


Well, humans created you too, so going by that logic, your opinions are no more valid than a book's teachings.


how do you know my parents where human ? i think they where from another planet



Johnnie
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04 Aug 2007, 10:08 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
Didn't God inspire them though, or something?


got me, i wasn't around when the thing was written and rewritten a bunch of times.

using the same logic, God insprires Ann Coulter and you should take her weekly ranting as gospel. 8O

what motivated people that wrote the bible is unknown but most likely they where trying to get social reconition for being the biggest Jesus freak around.

Works the same way here in vermont with the liberal tree huggers, they try to get reconition from the other like minded hippies by blowing off at the mouth and one upping the other blowhards. Yet right now being a saturday morning they are all over in new hampsire shopping for chicom consumer crap at wal-mart and think they are doing their part to save the planet because they drove their econo box 50 miles from their 3000 square foot home in the woods to the store and have a save the whales bumper sticker on it. :lol:



snake321
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04 Aug 2007, 10:33 am

lindarthebard wrote:
I'm going to be honest.

You sound like a pompous ass.
Not only that, but you sound like you're 14 years old and listen to My Chemical Romance on a regular basis.
You probably dress in a lot of black and/or wear tight jeans.
You probably have leopard print on you somewhere.

Now lets pick your statement apart.

snake321 wrote:
let me give you my interpretation of a free thinker


Okay, go ahead.

snake321 wrote:
1. Does not follow organized religion


I follow the Gael-Germanic pagan religion. I'm an animist. It's not as big as the three major world religions, but it's an established religion. Does that make it organised? We have sparse gatherings, not Church meetings, and we don't meet in a building.

I'm going to be liberal on this and say that I don't fall under this as I believe in an 'established' religion.

snake321 wrote:
2. Does not blindly agree with the party line (liberal or conservative), but actually questions everything logically from both sides. In other words, no liberals or conservatives, or any political orientation. You don't follow PEOPLE, you follow LOGIC.


This is called alexithymia and it's a mental disorder. You also make it sound like if you actually agree with a liberal or conservative party, then you're not a free thinker.
(by the way, in case you're one of those assholes that can't take a joke, the alexithymia thing was a joke, don't kill me)

I consider myself a libertarian, so there's another point against me.

snake321 wrote:
3. Does not blindly follow social norms, and questions even the most unanimously held beliefs among our society according to decency and morality.


Again, what if you agree with them anyway? You make it sound like if you agree with them at all then you're not a 'free thinker'.

I agree with the 'rule of 3'. I don't cause harm to people (unless it's in self defense). I agree with a decent number of social standards.

Chalk up another point against me.

snake321 wrote:
4. Does not let blind emotions get in the way of making rational, unbiased decisions. Logic is your referee between emotions and calling things straight down the middle (including straight down the middle for heterosexual white males, which isn't "politically correct", but also for all others of any race, gender, creed, sexual orientation, nationality, political orientation, etc).


Okay, Spock, if you've ever watched an episode of the original Star Trek you should know that emotion, passion, love, anger, and all of those emotions are what MOTIVATE us to do things. Emotion is our passion, our desire to do anything. Emotion is what drives the philosopher!

I do think things through with a certain Vulcanic logic, but I do have emotion and passion, which is what drives me to love and to write music.

Strike another point against me.

snake321 wrote:
I'm looking for REAL free thinkers, people who don't label themselves ideologically as anything. People with the ability to question and analyze anything and everything to the bare essentials (common since). I am curious how many on here fall into this category right now.


Well, I certainly would consider myself a free thinker, but according to your rules that you established for being a free thinker I'm not.
Maybe I should question your rules for being a free thinker so I can be one of the cool kids like you!

You fail at life, please kill yourself and start over.


Well I for one am mature enough to question things, I'm not the emo fag here b***h. I never made an attack on anyone here, I merely asked a simple question and half you idiots blew it out of proportion.

yes, emotions DO drive people, but SOME emotions that drive people are bad, and they have an utter control hold over people genetically because people are impulsive. There is a right place for emotions, but not blind emotions. If you can't challenge your impulses long enough to do the right thing to help someone out, because it might mean questioning your own point of view, (this is especially true of overly religious people), well by all means you don't fit the standard, and ironically you call me immature? Because I can think for myself and not give a f**k one way or the other what the partyline opinion is?
Screw your stupid f*****g libertarian party. For what it's worth, the border problem isn't about race, women CAN be sexist, and do have a mating advantage over men, blacks and ethnic minorities CAN be racist against whites, your childish theories of "political correctness" spell out SOCIOPATH. I'll bet your one of these idiots who defends convicted and proven murderers going on death row on the grounds that "theyr black, so if you execute him your racist".



snake321
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04 Aug 2007, 10:40 am

I also think it's kinda dumb in my opinion to get all your ideas from one book, and societal interpretations of that book. I mean any ideology, be it political, religious, sociological, I seriously doubt if anyone thought about it for themselves they would agree with everything one source says. Yes, I have studied some theology, and I take parts that I agree with out of religions and political ideologies, but it's not like I tell myself "well since I agree with them on this one issue I'll just agree with them on everything".



calandale
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04 Aug 2007, 11:11 am

Jimbogf wrote:
What I'm going to say here is a version of a bad free thinker.

Thinking you are a 100% "free thinker" leads some people to have a god complex. This person manipulates any subject to their liking, no matter what other people's views are. Free thinkers think they are looking at everything without bias, nope it is a delusion. Their beliefs are majorly influence by arrogance, ignoring other's logic and beliefs because those people are stupidly influenced and biased by emotion, other people are inferior. This person is the ultimate cynic. This person is hated. This person is me, crap, now what.


I don't see a problem with some of this. Indeed, you see that you
are not unbiased, that it's only a delusion. Becoming even more the
cynic. As to hate, some are disturbed by it, but others not so. I find
that being as honest as possible is important, and it leads one to
these views. Don't kick yourself over them.



calandale
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04 Aug 2007, 11:12 am

TheMachine1 wrote:
Is dreaming of Mitch, Snake Pliskin and myself in a hot tube an example of free thinking. :)


Freer than I like.



calandale
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04 Aug 2007, 11:15 am

Ragtime wrote:

Well, humans created you too, so going by that logic, your opinions are no more valid than a book's teachings.


I don't think that anyone claims,
by virtue of their ancestry alone,
that their ideas are of more value than
those written in any books.

So, if we can put aside the rather questionable
parentage of the Bible, and treat it only on its
philosophical merits, I believe that most secularists
would be tickled pink. As it does not present a consistant
and reasonable story, nor such a philosophy.



calandale
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04 Aug 2007, 11:26 am

snake321 wrote:

Well I for one am mature enough to question things, I'm not the emo fag here b***h. I never made an attack on anyone here, I merely asked a simple question and half you idiots blew it out of proportion.


Well, the prior post was WAY out of line,
but I think that we are bringing valid points
to bear, in general.

Quote:
...but SOME emotions that drive people are bad...,


As an example, judging bad and good. Surely, a "free thinker" would see
that such a value judgment is inherently subjective?

Quote:
There is a right place for emotions, but not blind emotions.


And again. Judging a 'right' place. And denegrating emotions by claiming
some are blind. How do you know that these aren't the truest measure of
worth and value?

Quote:
If you can't challenge your impulses long enough to do the right thing to help someone out,


Oh free thinker, who holds the key to right and wrong.

See, the problem came, not from simply defining
what the term meant to you (which was bound to
draw flak) but in asking us if your definition applied
to them. It doesn't deserve flaming, but when you
use a term with such a variant definition to what
others do, you should expect some disagreement.



Awesomelyglorious
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04 Aug 2007, 12:45 pm

snake321 wrote:
Well I for one am mature enough to question things, I'm not the emo fag here b***h. I never made an attack on anyone here, I merely asked a simple question and half you idiots blew it out of proportion.
I am not sure if you question enough. The issue isn't the question but the definition, and if you define a trait which is good in a manner to disqualify people in a manner that some would view as false, some will take offense.
Quote:
yes, emotions DO drive people, but SOME emotions that drive people are bad, and they have an utter control hold over people genetically because people are impulsive. There is a right place for emotions, but not blind emotions. If you can't challenge your impulses long enough to do the right thing to help someone out, because it might mean questioning your own point of view, (this is especially true of overly religious people), well by all means you don't fit the standard, and ironically you call me immature? Because I can think for myself and not give a f**k one way or the other what the partyline opinion is?

As calandale stated, why good and evil? Why not subjective? Why not even dismiss the concept as meaningless as some have done in the past? Emotions control us completely, what does it matter which emotion. Every removal of one emotion is done on behalf of one or more others. Who even defines the blind? Actually, I would think that some religious people do question themselves, and I know that some theologians put an emphasis on doubt as an important part of faith. I think he calls you immature because you defined a good concept badly and in a manner that is more self-serving than objective and honest.
Quote:
Screw your stupid f***ing libertarian party. For what it's worth, the border problem isn't about race, women CAN be sexist, and do have a mating advantage over men, blacks and ethnic minorities CAN be racist against whites, your childish theories of "political correctness" spell out SOCIOPATH. I'll bet your one of these idiots who defends convicted and proven murderers going on death row on the grounds that "theyr black, so if you execute him your racist".

What does that have to do with anything? I am not sure what exactly you are attacking. You attack libertarians by attacking the positions of left-wingers, that makes very little sense. Not only that but your attacks are weak strawmen of actual positions, you aren't refuting anyone's position but rather attacking a poor interpretation of it. If anything you have dug your hole even deeper in his eyes as you cursed him out and did a piss-poor job of attacking him.
Quote:
I also think it's kinda dumb in my opinion to get all your ideas from one book, and societal interpretations of that book. I mean any ideology, be it political, religious, sociological, I seriously doubt if anyone thought about it for themselves they would agree with everything one source says. Yes, I have studied some theology, and I take parts that I agree with out of religions and political ideologies, but it's not like I tell myself "well since I agree with them on this one issue I'll just agree with them on everything".
Why is it dumb? Theology transcends the knowable, how is it more justified to cut and paste than to take a theory as a whole? Not only that but a doubt of a conclusion doesn't mean that you have absolute knowledge whether or not a person can freely accept all of an idea, especially given that the idea is a complete world view with premises resting upon past premises, if you accept the basics at the bottom, what stops you from continuing? If anything it makes more sense for a thinker to do that as a mish-mash can be incomplete, and with theology, there is no way of proving or disproving an idea of how the spiritual world works.



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04 Aug 2007, 1:28 pm

I'm pretty much a free thinker. I like to analyze things before I take a side on something.


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04 Aug 2007, 3:16 pm

To be a truly free thinker you would probably need to live apart from other people because we are as humans going to respond to others - which includes altering our thoughts in relation to others.

I suppose your thoughts could also be influenced by the magnificent trees so you would probably have to live in a vacuum away from all things, although that might alter your thoughts too.

What would you think about if you had never seen or experienced anything ? Thoughts that arise wholly from your genes (as there is no environment) ?


Anyway these kinds of threads lack focus because they lack context. If the original poster had said, well I am fed up of all the sheep-like people I see everyday, I wonder how many people are free thinkers like me / what does it take to be a free thinker ?... then it would be better.