Pastor Barnhart explains right-wing anti-abortion politics.

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kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 8:43 am

Abortion wouldn't be a federal offense just because Roe Vs. Wade is overturned.

It's up to the states whether to make abortion an offense.

I doubt that Canada will follow the USA's lead on this.



ironpony
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12 May 2022, 8:43 am

Oh that's what I meant, will parlament inact them, since they will likely, if the US enacts them.



kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 8:45 am

Canada is not the USA in this sense. I doubt that they will follow the US's lead when it comes to abortion rights.

Canada doesn't follow the USA in EVERYTHING.

One important distinction is that Canada has universal health care for all. Not even the most conservative Canadian would allow this to be gotten rid of.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 12 May 2022, 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fnord
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12 May 2022, 8:46 am

ironpony wrote:
Oh that's what I meant, will parlament inact them, since they will likely, if the US enacts them.
Then you already have your answer.



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12 May 2022, 8:50 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Canada is not the USA in this sense. I doubt that they will follow the US's lead when it comes to abortion rights.

Canada doesn't follow the USA in EVERYTHING.

One important distinction is that Canada has universal health care for all. Not even the most conservative Canadian would allow this to be gotten rid of.


That's true, it just seems that when it comes to political issues, Canada has a tendency to copy the US. Like making Cannabis legal for recent example. More political things like that.

But I guess the health care system came out in the 60s before Canada started copying the US perhaps?



kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 8:54 am

Canada has more of a tendency to copy the US when it comes to relatively "progressive" things.

As far as relatively conservative things----no it doesn't.

There will never be a 2nd Amendment "right to bear arms" in Canada. Hence, there never will be much of a "gun rights" debate there.



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12 May 2022, 9:02 am

Pepe wrote:
Fnord wrote:
 
Image

So where are all of you "Pro-Life" advocates now?
Why do you care about other people's children only before they are born?[/color]


I suspect pro-life representatives might also be supportive of family planning. 8)

not when the more stupidly vocal of them espouses the repeal of griswold vs. connecticut 1965.



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12 May 2022, 10:01 am

auntblabby wrote:
Pepe wrote:
I suspect pro-life representatives might also be supportive of family planning.
Not when the more stupidly vocal of them espouses the repeal of Griswold vs. Connecticut 1965.
I was going to make a "Family Vacation" joke, but I will post this instead, for the benefit of those whose Google-Fu is weak:
Wikipedia wrote:
Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479 (1965), was a landmark decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that the Constitution of the United States protects the liberty of married couples to buy and use contraceptives without government restriction.  The case involved a Connecticut "Comstock law" that prohibited any person from using "any drug, medicinal article or instrument for the purpose of preventing conception".  The court held that the statute was unconstitutional, and that its effect was "to deny disadvantaged citizens . . . access to medical assistance and up-to-date information in respect to proper methods of birth control".  By a vote of 7–2, the Supreme Court invalidated the law on the grounds that it violated the "right to marital privacy", establishing the basis for the right to privacy with respect to intimate practices.  This and other cases view the right to privacy as "protected from governmental intrusion".



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12 May 2022, 10:07 am

For those who think abortion is to be allowed if it puts a woman's life at a way higher risk than a pregnancy normally would but not otherwise: what about an unwanted pregnancy's effects on the woman's mental health? What if, being denied abortion, the woman gets suicidal? If there's a reason to doubt that a woman will kill herself due to the unwanted pregnancy, would it justify abortion? If there's a reason to doubt that she'd start doing risky stuff like falling down some stairs or jumping off a bridge on purpose in order to have her rights to her own body back, should abortion be allowed in your opinion?



AngelRho
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12 May 2022, 10:56 am

Fireblossom wrote:
For those who think abortion is to be allowed if it puts a woman's life at a way higher risk than a pregnancy normally would but not otherwise: what about an unwanted pregnancy's effects on the woman's mental health? What if, being denied abortion, the woman gets suicidal? If there's a reason to doubt that a woman will kill herself due to the unwanted pregnancy, would it justify abortion? If there's a reason to doubt that she'd start doing risky stuff like falling down some stairs or jumping off a bridge on purpose in order to have her rights to her own body back, should abortion be allowed in your opinion?

Ok, but now the problem is that you can justify pretty much anything for the sake of mental health. You can't realistically or reasonably live your life if you have to worry about how your actions are going to impact someone's mental health. My, oh, my, what lawsuits I'd file if that were the case!



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12 May 2022, 11:26 am

AngelRho wrote:
You can't realistically or reasonably live your life if you have to worry about how your actions are going to impact someone's mental health. My, oh, my, what lawsuits I'd file if that were the case!
I find your words a symptom of living in a pretty toxic environment.
Of course protection of mental health is an important public health issue.


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kraftiekortie
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12 May 2022, 12:32 pm

I don't want to live in a society where somebody will sue me for having a different political opinion----because that political opinion, somehow, was detrimental to that somebody's mental health.



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12 May 2022, 12:33 pm



The Right to Breathing Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness;

Oh Lord How Is This Possible if Reproductive Rights Are Taken Away
in Some States Where Women Who Are Raped, Have All Their Reproductive

Rights Taken Away

Forced to Breed

A Child of A Dude

Who Violently Raped

Them as An Additional Sentence

of Evil For 9 More Months; Particularly,

If There Are No Months or Days Left At
All to Make a Decision to Terminate What

Verily Feels Like HeLL ON EartH For The Subject
Who Lost All Their Reproductive Rights So Violently Raped;

Problem with Most All Religions Designed By Dudes is the So-Called
'Golden Rule' Fails Mightily Poor When There is No Empathy of the Cognitive
Kind And Real Compassion for Do Least Harm With the Realization That Comes

From REAL LIFE EXPERIENCES

THAT DO NOT EXPERIENCE

LIFE THE WAY THAT 'YOU' DO;

SO WHILE YOU MAY NOT HAVE A UTERUS
AND THE POTENTIAL OF BEING VIOLENTLY RAPED
AND FORCED TO BREED WHAT SEEMS LIKE A MONSTER'S
FETUS MELDING WITH YOUR BODY PARTS WITHIN THAT'S NOT

THE REALITY FOR
OTHER FOLKS SO
HOW ABOUT HAVING
SOME SOUL AND NOT JUST BE
SO CALLOUS WANTING OTHERS TO
DO LIFE ONLY THE WAY YOU WANNA DO LIFE NOW...

YES, THE golden rule is really a rotten egg when it comes
to a Human Rule that Does Not Include Do Least Harm for Real...

Yawn, i Remember Playing the Piano and Singing For The Church Choir in the 80's
And Then A Very Nice Singer Who Worked For the Department of Welfare For Women
And Children Who Had Seen Real Poverty; and Mental Illness; And The Suffering that
Goes With Unwanted Children For those Who Didn't Even Have the Education or Ability
to Obtain Effective Birth Control And Other Family Planning Resources in the Real Trenches
And

Fox Holes
of Life AS Such;

Well, All She Could Do
Is Roll Her EYes AT the
Ignorance of The Church as it
Suggested to Take Away Reproductive
Rights For Women Ranging From Contraception
To Abortion; And Of Course the Delusion that Sexual

Pleasures only
are For Marriage
And Child Bearing
Purposes; Yes, Face Palm
Thick Forests Even More; Damned

Ignorance is Blind, it Just Can't See;
Ignorance Still Harms, Rapes, Maims,
And Kills As A Most Deadly Real Human Pandemic

Spreading
Still to Date...

Abortion is the Last
Practice i Will Imagine
Being in a 32-Year Happy
Marriage Barring More Life
or Death Consequences Associated

For My Wife Yet i am Human Enough 'Both
Devil And Angel' to Understand Both the

Dark and Light
of Life; You Don't

Burn People More Who
Are Already in Hell, Of Course
Unless You are the 'Trump' of An Old New Testament
And Or All of 'HIS' Followers Still True to A Real Sin of Ignorance

Still
Reigning
As A Lesser
God than Love With Least Harm; God Yes,

This is A Matter of Ethics And Morality

Separating the Good of Least Harm
From the

Evil that
Just Doesn't
Give A Damn

As Long as Real Evil Doesn't
Ruffle Any Nest Feathers at Home...

i See it as Sick as Disgusting and Just Another
Part of Human Nature And Traditional Ways Closer to

Hell Than Heaven on Earth...

Like Everything

Else in the Change
of Reality; It's All A Spectrum;
The Delusion is Life Consists
of Black And White Solutions;

So in Other Words An Only
Solution in this Scenario that
Will Possibly Work in the Long Term

of A Country With a Declaration of Independence
Proclaiming a Right to Breathing Life, Liberty and the
Pursuit of Happiness

IS FRIGGING

CHOICE;

AS THE FOLKS
WITH ANY FRIGGING
COMMON SENSE ALREADY
FIXED THE IGNORANCE ONCE FROM BEFORE;

YET, IT'S TRUE SOME FOLKS ENJOY A TRUE
INSANITY OF REPEATING THE SAME IGNORANCE;
Go Figure IT's

The Condition'

SO BLIND

IT SEEMS;

SO VERY BLIND

TO THE HARM
OTHER FOLKS EXPERIENCE

IN THEIR RIGHTS TO BREATHING
LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE pursuit of
Happiness, including what is Core of
Reproductive Freedoms that Do least harm...

Or Of Course We Can Devolve into a Third World
Country, WHere Women Are Treated As No Different than

Cattle
to Breed,

Cattle to Buy;

And Cattle to Sell
Out And Make Slaves Again...

Sure, A Place Where A Woman
Cannot Even Walk Alone Without a Designated 'Male Master'...

Those Places Still Exist And Sadly Some Folks Want them here now...

Yet Do Take Note, 66 Percent of American Folks, Still Want None of this Real Evil Ignorance.



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12 May 2022, 12:53 pm

magz wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
You can't realistically or reasonably live your life if you have to worry about how your actions are going to impact someone's mental health. My, oh, my, what lawsuits I'd file if that were the case!
I find your words a symptom of living in a pretty toxic environment.
Of course protection of mental health is an important public health issue.

While I agree with you, an unreasonable concern for the mental health of everyone at the expense of one’s personal freedom is at least just as unhealthy. Suicidal people will ideate suicide. People who aren’t suicidal won’t. People who will hurt themselves don’t need an excuse and will do it regardless of whether they have the option to kill someone else.



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12 May 2022, 2:17 pm

Pepe wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

Have you heard of ectopic pregnancies where the fetus implants in the wrong place? The only treatment for that is abortion. If she is denied an abortion that is a death sentence....what does your morality say about that?



I would like "evidence" that it would happen.
It is inconceivable (pun intended) that a women would be left to die in such a situation.
It sounds like utter nonsense and I think you are hurting your argument, assuming you are incorrect.

Sorry to be so firm about my position, but as I said, something like you described is beyond *my* realm of reality. 8)


Some anti abortion groups and people are calling for a full ban on abortion. I am not certain that it would actually occur.

Even in Texas abortions are allowed later than 6 weeks for situations like that, however it causes confusion as to when a doctor could perform it. Like in the case of ectopic pregnancies can the doctor perform an abortion once it's discovered or do they have to wait till her fallopian tube ruptures? The texas law is not clear on that.

https://www.thelily.com/the-texas-abortion-ban-has-a-medical-exception-but-some-doctors-worry-its-too-narrow-to-use/


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12 May 2022, 2:31 pm

One problem with the six-week thing----is that women frequently don't feel pregnancy symptoms until like 10 weeks' gestation. The only symptom might be the lack of a period for at least a month.