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Pepe
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14 May 2022, 8:51 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The majority of Jews are not Orthodox. And, really, the only Jews who truly believe that crap about being “chosen” are the extreme Orthodox amongst them. Plenty of people of Orthodox origin have married outside of their religion. Some to the consternation of their families; others, with their blessings. Most Jews just aren’t really fanatical about their religion.

My grandmother was no “progressive”—trust me!


Thereby making your previous statement invalid. 8)
Also, it isn't *just* the orthodox Jews who want to marry another Jew. Cultural considerations are also important.

The "progressive" thing was a joke that you missed.
Once again, look at the emojis. 8)


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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Pepe
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14 May 2022, 8:54 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Most ethnic groups are into that, at least to some extent. If there is not much contact with outsiders, at least some ethnic groups believe that they are, in a loose sense, the “chosen ones,” and that they must maintain their genealogical lines in order not to go extinct.


In an attempt to maintain "The Chosen People", the Jews have implemented a cultural system to support this.
In some groups even today, the mother needs to be confirmed Jewish to guarantee at least the maternal connection.
I am not sure how successful that policy was, over the centuries.


The Amish only marry other Amish. They are also the chosen people. I’m glad they are not in the majority because they don’t think too highly of those who aren’t in their cult and, thus, haven’t been chosen by God.


Unintellectual people do what unintellectual people do. <shrug>
It takes all kinds. ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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14 May 2022, 8:57 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t know many Jews who espouse “genetic conservation.” They have moved beyond that.

Even though Hitler and the Nazis wanted to get rid of what they called the “Jewish Race.”

It should be noted that Jews are not a monolithic “race.” There are Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and many groups of Jews from many ultimate origins.

It is true that, in the old days, Jews frowned upon their children marrying non-Jews…..but this is not the case these days.

My mother, 100% Ashkenazi Jew, didn’t give a damn about “genetic conservation.” She married a Dutch Catholic.


True.

This is only seen among extreme fundamentalist Jews. It’s interesting how similar fundamentalist Abrahamic religions are.



A friend of my mother had to convert to Judaism when she married a Jewish man. I believe this was his condition.
Some in the Jewish community didn't accept her as a Jew.
Just sayin' ;)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


kraftiekortie
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14 May 2022, 8:59 pm

Pepe: what you said was probably valid up to about the 1970s.

The majority of Jews, these days, don’t have an ingrained belief in their kids marrying Jews. I am probably more in contact with Jews than you are.

It is difficult for someone to formally convert to Judaism.



Twilightprincess
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14 May 2022, 9:21 pm

Pepe wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Most ethnic groups are into that, at least to some extent. If there is not much contact with outsiders, at least some ethnic groups believe that they are, in a loose sense, the “chosen ones,” and that they must maintain their genealogical lines in order not to go extinct.


In an attempt to maintain "The Chosen People", the Jews have implemented a cultural system to support this.
In some groups even today, the mother needs to be confirmed Jewish to guarantee at least the maternal connection.
I am not sure how successful that policy was, over the centuries.


The Amish only marry other Amish. They are also the chosen people. I’m glad they are not in the majority because they don’t think too highly of those who aren’t in their cult and, thus, haven’t been chosen by God.


Unintellectual people do what unintellectual people do. <shrug>
It takes all kinds. ;)


No, indoctrinated people who have been raised in a cult and have the fear of being shunned looming over their heads do what they do.

I don’t think you fully grasp what being in a cult entails.



Pepe
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14 May 2022, 11:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Pepe: what you said was probably valid up to about the 1970s.

The majority of Jews, these days, don’t have an ingrained belief in their kids marrying Jews. I am probably more in contact with Jews than you are.

It is difficult for someone to formally convert to Judaism.


Regardless, some of what you have said lacks validity, by your own admission.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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14 May 2022, 11:07 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Most ethnic groups are into that, at least to some extent. If there is not much contact with outsiders, at least some ethnic groups believe that they are, in a loose sense, the “chosen ones,” and that they must maintain their genealogical lines in order not to go extinct.


In an attempt to maintain "The Chosen People", the Jews have implemented a cultural system to support this.
In some groups even today, the mother needs to be confirmed Jewish to guarantee at least the maternal connection.
I am not sure how successful that policy was, over the centuries.


The Amish only marry other Amish. They are also the chosen people. I’m glad they are not in the majority because they don’t think too highly of those who aren’t in their cult and, thus, haven’t been chosen by God.


Unintellectual people do what unintellectual people do. <shrug>
It takes all kinds. ;)


No, indoctrinated people who have been raised in a cult and have the fear of being shunned looming over their heads do what they do.

I don’t think you fully grasp what being in a cult entails.


True, but I was a committed Christian and it was my reasoning ability that "deprogrammed" me.
Weren't you in the same situation?

And, as you said, not all cults are as feral as others.
Generally speaking, I stand by my statement.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


kraftiekortie
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15 May 2022, 5:35 am

What “lacks validity”

What I said is based on first-hand knowledge.

There certainly are a few Jews…..just like there are a few Christians…..who frown upon marrying outside their religion.



Pepe
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15 May 2022, 6:34 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Preferring your own partner on the basis on race is not the foundation problem.
It is the lack of respect for other races.

The opposite is happening with my race.
Women prefer non-native races over native race men. Some extremists even use non-ethnic men to compare and humiliate the physical characteristics of men of their own race.

Are you going to stop this too?


:chin:
Yes. 8)
The skunk is capable of all manner of things. 8)

From my perspective, your culture has a problem.
I believe Xi is trying to fix that problem through national pride, but you would know more than I would about that.
Tell me what you think.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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15 May 2022, 6:42 am

Twilightprincess wrote:

But is there really choice involved when one has been indoctrinated into a harmful cult?

I don’t think so.

We are talking about an extreme situation. There is not much room for personal choice in this scenario.


The context I was using was a general principle.
I am never in favour of brainwashing anyone.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Pepe
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15 May 2022, 6:59 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
What “lacks validity”

What I said is based on first-hand knowledge.

There certainly are a few Jews…..just like there are a few Christians…..who frown upon marrying outside their religion.


You said this:

Quote:
It is true that, in the old days, Jews frowned upon their children marrying non-Jews…..but this is not the case these days.


And you also said this:
Quote:
And, really, the only Jews who truly believe that crap about being “chosen” are the extreme Orthodox amongst them.


So what is it?
"Spitz or Swallows"? :scratch:

You needed to add more qualifiers in the first statement to "marry" with the second.


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


SkinnedWolf
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15 May 2022, 7:02 am

Pepe wrote:
From my perspective, your culture has a problem.
I believe Xi is trying to fix that problem through national pride, but you would know more than I would about that.
Tell me what you think.

I don't think "national pride" initiated by "Xi" or others is trying to solve this problem. I don't even know where you got this idea.
Both Ding Zhen and Gu Ailing are proclaiming to us "how noble the faces/blood of other nations are". These are government-led propaganda.
I also hope you haven't forgotten the "Shanghai Penis Defense War" I posted earlier.
And as far back as I can remember, I've already talked about it with you. :scratch:


And it's not just a "Chinese" problem.


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Pepe
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15 May 2022, 7:16 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I was responding to someone who might have an erroneous notion of Jews.


If you are referring to me, you are incorrect.
What I said is accurate. I haven't seen anything to suggest it is not.

Show me where I said all Jews embrace a tradition of "genetic conservation"?

kraftiekortie wrote:
If I knew something about your ethnic group that was erroneously expressed in a thread, I would point that out, too.


To suggest there is no preference, by some, to marry into their own culture is self-evidently incorrect, even simply using anecdotal evidence.
And these couples don't have to be "orthodox".

This tendency to congregate in tribal areas can be seen in all ethnicities that I can think of.
Other races value genetic conservations, also.
Consider the Muslim tradition of "Honour killings".


kraftiekortie wrote:
If somebody said all Germans are Nazis, I would vociferous call out that person for that falsehood.


I didn't misrepresent the Jewish community.
Perhaps you are thinking of someone else?

kraftiekortie wrote:
Quiverfull, obviously, is a “fringe” group whose views are not in accord with the beliefs of most Christians.


Agreed.

I am not a binarist and never have been.
Perhaps there was a misunderstanding. 8)


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.


Twilightprincess
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15 May 2022, 7:25 am

Not everyone has the necessary intellectual OR personality traits to wake up from a cult. I know some people who are technically gifted, but they won’t wake up because they have been turned into sheep who can’t use their critical thinking ability.

Also, I have a certain stubborn, rebellious streak that gets all riled up when I’m confronted with something I consider unjust, like the subordination of women. Some people don’t have this. I tried reaching out to a cousin who was recently disfellowshipped and is being shunned, but she won’t talk to me because she thinks she deserves such deplorable and inhumane treatment. Maybe being indoctrinated for decades and since childhood has taken the fight out of her.

Further, people who are decidedly not intellectual, for whatever reason, still matter.



Last edited by Twilightprincess on 15 May 2022, 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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15 May 2022, 7:28 am

I sensed that you felt that Jews are more inclined than others to be exclusionist and to really dislike those who marry those who are not Jewish, who are “goy.” This sort of thing is only found within the ultra-Orthodox these days.

Otherwise, like you said, this is found to some degree in most ethnic groups…..but Jews aren’t exceptional in this regard.

Perhaps there was a misunderstanding 8)

You were contradicting what I was saying about Jews as far as “marrying their own kind” was concerned. In truth, most Jews don’t really care all that much these days whether someone marries a “goy.” Most Jews are probably more secular than most Christians and Muslims.



Pepe
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15 May 2022, 7:28 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
From my perspective, your culture has a problem.
I believe Xi is trying to fix that problem through national pride, but you would know more than I would about that.
Tell me what you think.

I don't think "national pride" initiated by "Xi" or others is trying to solve this problem. I don't even know where you got this idea.
Both Ding Zhen and Gu Ailing are proclaiming to us "how noble the faces/blood of other nations are". These are government-led propaganda.
I also hope you haven't forgotten the "Shanghai Penis Defense War" I posted earlier.
And as far back as I can remember, I've already talked about it with you. :scratch:


And it's not just a "Chinese" problem.


"100 hundred years of national humiliation."

Quote:
The century of humiliation, also known as the hundred years of national humiliation, is the term used in China to describe the period of intervention and subjugation of the Qing dynasty and the Republic of China by Western powers and Japan from 1839 to 1949.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

The rise of Adolph Hilter was on "the back" of national humiliation as the result of the Versailles Treaty.
Hitler used this to his advantage to create a white supremacy mindset in many people.
Psychology 101.

I am not suggesting Chinese people are racist, obviously, but *a* cure for "humiliation", in this case, is national pride, imo.
Psychology 101.

Regarding talking about it with me, I wanted to discuss the issue in a public forum.

Which other countries do you think are in the same cultural mindset as China?


_________________
Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Read my lips:-I am not a fan of the orange man.-I would never vote for the Republican party given the chance.-I am interested in being objective and rational.