Will Europe be predominantly muslim by the next century?

Page 3 of 3 [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

SkinnedWolf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2022
Age: 23
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,158
Location: China

16 May 2022, 12:10 pm

Just a personal idea:
If more secular Muslims, rather than some extremely conservative Muslims in the Arabian Peninsula who happen to occupy oil, dominate the economy, they can then dominate the discourse.
This is good for the whole Islamic world and the whole world.


_________________
I use English with the help of translation software and apologize for all possible misunderstandings.

The 'skinned wolf' is actually a type of fish

Find communicators about interests please PM me


magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,875
Location: Poland

16 May 2022, 12:20 pm

Little known fact: Poland has a small traditionally Muslim community, dating back from Tatar invasions.
Keeping their religion, they've integrated with the rest of the society in other aspects and lived here peacefully for centuries.
It's entirely possible, with the non-militiant interpretations of Islam.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 82,716
Location: Queens, NYC

16 May 2022, 12:40 pm

We have plenty of Muslims here who do just fine, assimilate, and just live their lives.

I have worked with Muslims who dress western. I have worked with Muslims who wear traditional dress.



SkinnedWolf
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Mar 2022
Age: 23
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 1,158
Location: China

16 May 2022, 1:43 pm

magz wrote:
Little known fact: Poland has a small traditionally Muslim community, dating back from Tatar invasions.
Keeping their religion, they've integrated with the rest of the society in other aspects and lived here peacefully for centuries.
It's entirely possible, with the non-militiant interpretations of Islam.

China has them too. many.
(While the record of peace didn't last long, it was the era of great civil wars before and they weren't very special)

Until followers of some Arab Muslims started to oppress others.
But most remain peaceful.


_________________
I use English with the help of translation software and apologize for all possible misunderstandings.

The 'skinned wolf' is actually a type of fish

Find communicators about interests please PM me


The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,080
Location: Reading, England

16 May 2022, 1:55 pm

Muslims might outnumber Christians, but won't outnumber irreleigious people.

I don't really see a cultural divide between the Muslims I know and everyone else I know. I mean, there is one, but it's all superficial stuff, not the important things.



Fireblossom
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jan 2017
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,329

17 May 2022, 9:25 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Most children of immigrants assimilate well into the culture of their adopted country. Sometimes, the parents do, too.

Especially when they come to the country very young, or are born in the adopted country, they learn to speak the new language thoroughly, frequently without an “accent.”

They usually feel proud to be citizens of their new country.


True, but there are also some immigrant parents who put effort in to making sure that the kids don't learn the values of their current home country, especially the girls so that they'll be easier to control. My sister had a Muslim girl in her class in high school who wasn't allowed to hang out with friends, even the girls, outside of school so that she wouldn't learn "bad manners", which in practice pretty much meant that she shouldn't learn to consider herself as an equal of men. Apparently, she herself had said that her father needs to guide her because women aren't as intelligent as men. If girls are taught this, they'll get taken advantage of and if boys are taught this, they'll keep mistreating women.

But of course, I'll point out that she wasn't the only Muslim in my sister's class, and the other two had accepted/learned the values and rules of our society much better. All three were girls btw.



kraftiekortie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 82,716
Location: Queens, NYC

17 May 2022, 9:28 am

There are many movies about the generational battles between immigrants and their children.

“Bend it like Beckham” comes to mind.



Tross
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2012
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 864

18 May 2022, 7:32 pm

I don't know much about Europe's political scene, but assuming it shares some similarities with the rest of the Western world, I assume it will be predominantly atheist by the next century, if it isn't already.

As for whether Muslims account for the bulk of the religious population however...I really can't say, but that probably depends largely on what percentage of the populations in various European countries will be from countries where Islam is the dominant religion. Sure, even a local white person could take up being a Muslim, but it's a hard sell to most of us. In the event that someone is to take up a religion, a simplified Protestant sect would probably be much more appealing as one will not have to adopt nearly as much in the way of doctrine and/or lifestyle changes.

Regardless, as long as laws continue to separate church and state and guarantee both freedom of religion, and freedom of absence of religion, I wouldn't worry too much about which religion is the most popular in a given country. If these Islamists start to have an influence on the law, that would be a different story...



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 29,112
Location: temperate zone

19 May 2022, 3:38 am

Tross wrote:
I don't know much about Europe's political scene, but assuming it shares some similarities with the rest of the Western world, I assume it will be predominantly atheist by the next century, if it isn't already.

As for whether Muslims account for the bulk of the religious population however...I really can't say, but that probably depends largely on what percentage of the populations in various European countries will be from countries where Islam is the dominant religion. Sure, even a local white person could take up being a Muslim, but it's a hard sell to most of us. In the event that someone is to take up a religion, a simplified Protestant sect would probably be much more appealing as one will not have to adopt nearly as much in the way of doctrine and/or lifestyle changes.

Regardless, as long as laws continue to separate church and state and guarantee both freedom of religion, and freedom of absence of religion, I wouldn't worry too much about which religion is the most popular in a given country. If these Islamists start to have an influence on the law, that would be a different story...

Dude...learn to read between the lines please.

The issue is NOT conversion to Islam.

The issue is immigration to Europe of people from Muslim countries. From north Africa and mideast, and also to some extent immigration of Pakistanis in to the UK.

The alarmists (like America's Pat Buchanan) are worried that the low birth rate of native Europeans combined with large immigration of high birth rate people from Muslim countries. The alarmists are worried about the later group becoming so numerous (through the combination of immigration and continuing to have a high birth rate when the take up residence in Europe)that they will out number the historically Christian White population.

Also (though they never admit to this) one gets the impression that these alarmists are at least as concerned with skin color (ie race) as they are about religion. Its Europe turning brown that they...might...really be worried about...maybe.

Anyway...Pat Buchanan might answer you that so many Muslims are coming into Europe that they will outvote native White secular/Christians, and that they will vote for...Sharia law, and turn countries like France into Islamic Republics. But he is an alarmist.

Not saying that they are right. Just saying that is what the alarmists say that the issues are.

But you are right that it is indeed hard to extrapolate. Immigrants from the rural mideast to Urban Europe may become like all urban populations and go down in birth rate, they may also assimilate to the local culture ( become Christian, or become secular, or become atheist, or even become some mild progressive form of Islam).



magz
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 1 Jun 2017
Age: 37
Gender: Female
Posts: 13,875
Location: Poland

19 May 2022, 3:46 am

One European point of view:
Europe becoming "brown" - shrug. There were so many waves of immigration in this part of the world that another one won't really change who we are.
Europe becoming Shariah - nopenopenopenopenope! (Poland becoming "Catholic Shariah" - also nopenopenopenopenope!)
Europe with strong moderate/progressive-liberal branch of Islam - okay, there's room for it.


_________________
Let's not confuse being normal with being mentally healthy.

<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>


Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 43,764
Location: Abbottistan

20 May 2022, 8:44 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are many movies about the generational battles between immigrants and their children.

“Bend it like Beckham” comes to mind.


"You have a daughter with breasts, not a son" was the best line in the movie.



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 43,764
Location: Abbottistan

20 May 2022, 8:53 am

Europe, if anything, is less religious as a whole.

Czech Republic is the least religious country in the world, aside from the communist countries.

Albania and Kosovo are the only Muslim-majority countries entirely in Europe. In the case of Albania, most people are apathetic toward religion, many having experienced a period during the communist era when religion was banned.

Turkey and Azerbaijan are sometimes included, and there is also Northern Cyprus, recognized only by Turkey.