Comparing Russia vs Ukraine to other countries

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Fnord
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19 Jun 2022, 6:59 pm

Think again.

They only disabled the Internet data feed to and from your phone.

Voice is still enabled. So is the ability for your phone to connect to the nearest cell tower, and for all nearby cell towers to ‘ping’ your phone. Depending on how many cell towers ‘ping’ your phone, your location can be determined to a radius as small as a few meters.

Your phone responds to those ‘pings’ with its own Electronic IDentification (EID) number, which is registered to your name. The phone of anyone who calls you also transmits its EID, and with enough phone calls, a contact list can be built up, eventually giving ‘them’ enough data to profile you and any person with whom you share a phone call.

With or without an ID chip (which CAN be removed), you can be tracked and profiled, and there is nothing you can do about it except to get rid of your phone.

Sleep well tonight!



uncommondenominator
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19 Jun 2022, 8:19 pm

QFT wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
QFT wrote:

In any case, speaking of a cell phone, I changed from advanced cell phone to flip phone a year ago. Not just because of tracking but also to deal with my internet addiction. But with the chip, one won’t be able to remove it. That’s the difference.


Well...

Flip phones still have microphones (and often cameras, too), can still send and receive data, and can still be tracked.


When I got my flip phone they actually asked me if I wanted an internet, I said no. As a result of not having internet I also don’t have location detection either, even though I wish I did: traveling is healthy, internet addiction isn’t. But apparently these two things go hand in hand since both are tied to radio waves.

So what I conclude from this is they switched off radio signal from my flip phone. This means they can’t track me down, just like I can’t see my own location.


You can conclude whatever you want, that doesn't make it correct.

Almost all wireless communication is conducted via radio waves. If your phone was not capable of sending or receiving RF signal, it wouldn't even be able to send or receive calls. "Radio frequency" just refers to the (very large) spectrum of EM radiation referred to as "radio waves". Everything from wifi, bluetooth, wireless game controllers, walkie talkies, R/C cars, 4G, 5G, cell communication in general, uses "radio frequency". When they "turn off" the internet to your phone they don't do anything to your phone, they just stop sending internet to your phone. Your phone calls and text messages are still sent via RF.

Phones and towers, a Fnord mentioned, are always sending out pings. This is how your phone knows which tower to link to, and how your phone knows your signal strength. Your phone sends these out at regular intervals, even when you aren't using it, as long as it's on, so it can stay in touch with the right tower. That way the network knows which tower to send your incoming calls to.

From there, there's a neat thing called latency. The tower can ping your phone, and make it ping back. By measuring how long the trip takes, they can tell how far away you are from the tower. By forcing other nearby towers to also link with you and do the same, they can triangulate your location with amazing accuracy. YOU may not be able to access your location, cos you chose not to get that feature, but THEY still have all the cool toys, and can do all kinds of things from their end. And they don't even need magic nano machines to do it. This is old tech. Range vector triangulation is older than electricity.

And, as Fnord mentioned, they also know who you call, receive calls from, text message, receive messages from, how long you talk, and what towers you link to when doing so.

Unless you never actually turn your phone on in the first place (still no guarantee), there's still a plethora of information they can gather from you, most definitely including your location. Just cos you don't have a feature from your end doesn't mean they can't still do it from their end.



Fnord
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19 Jun 2022, 8:55 pm

So why worry about the imaginary “threat” of microchips when the real “threat” is right there in your hand, purse, or pocket?

:lol:



QFT
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20 Jun 2022, 1:05 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
QFT wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
QFT wrote:

In any case, speaking of a cell phone, I changed from advanced cell phone to flip phone a year ago. Not just because of tracking but also to deal with my internet addiction. But with the chip, one won’t be able to remove it. That’s the difference.


Well...

Flip phones still have microphones (and often cameras, too), can still send and receive data, and can still be tracked.


When I got my flip phone they actually asked me if I wanted an internet, I said no. As a result of not having internet I also don’t have location detection either, even though I wish I did: traveling is healthy, internet addiction isn’t. But apparently these two things go hand in hand since both are tied to radio waves.

So what I conclude from this is they switched off radio signal from my flip phone. This means they can’t track me down, just like I can’t see my own location.


You can conclude whatever you want, that doesn't make it correct.

Almost all wireless communication is conducted via radio waves. If your phone was not capable of sending or receiving RF signal, it wouldn't even be able to send or receive calls. "Radio frequency" just refers to the (very large) spectrum of EM radiation referred to as "radio waves". Everything from wifi, bluetooth, wireless game controllers, walkie talkies, R/C cars, 4G, 5G, cell communication in general, uses "radio frequency". When they "turn off" the internet to your phone they don't do anything to your phone, they just stop sending internet to your phone. Your phone calls and text messages are still sent via RF.

Phones and towers, a Fnord mentioned, are always sending out pings. This is how your phone knows which tower to link to, and how your phone knows your signal strength. Your phone sends these out at regular intervals, even when you aren't using it, as long as it's on, so it can stay in touch with the right tower. That way the network knows which tower to send your incoming calls to.

From there, there's a neat thing called latency. The tower can ping your phone, and make it ping back. By measuring how long the trip takes, they can tell how far away you are from the tower. By forcing other nearby towers to also link with you and do the same, they can triangulate your location with amazing accuracy. YOU may not be able to access your location, cos you chose not to get that feature, but THEY still have all the cool toys, and can do all kinds of things from their end. And they don't even need magic nano machines to do it. This is old tech. Range vector triangulation is older than electricity.

And, as Fnord mentioned, they also know who you call, receive calls from, text message, receive messages from, how long you talk, and what towers you link to when doing so.

Unless you never actually turn your phone on in the first place (still no guarantee), there's still a plethora of information they can gather from you, most definitely including your location. Just cos you don't have a feature from your end doesn't mean they can't still do it from their end.


If they know my location anyway, what is the point of not releasing it to me? Remember: the only thing I didn’t want was internet. They were the ones who told me that, if I don’t sign up for internet, I won’t be able to know my location either.



QFT
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20 Jun 2022, 1:06 am

Fnord wrote:
So why worry about the imaginary “threat” of microchips when the real “threat” is right there in your hand, purse, or pocket?

:lol:


Because it’s possible to leave the cell phone home, but it won’t be possible to remove microchip.



magz
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20 Jun 2022, 1:20 am

QFT wrote:
If they know my location anyway, what is the point of not releasing it to me? Remember: the only thing I didn’t want was internet. They were the ones who told me that, if I don’t sign up for internet, I won’t be able to know my location either.
That's probably because without Internet connection, the operator wouldn't be able to send this information to you.
On the technical level, anything with a SIM card, power source and network coverage can be tracked by the network operators - though the location won't be very precise.
The police sometimes uses it to locate missing people or stolen goods. I believe they have to have a warrant to do it.


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The_Walrus
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20 Jun 2022, 3:08 am

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the “location detection” in a non-internet connected phone is only accurate to the nearest cell tower. That’s not accurate enough for you to use it for navigation, but it can prove that you (or your phone) was e.g. in the vicinity of a crime. It would also make it possible for a team of people to track you down with a little searching.



magz
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20 Jun 2022, 3:50 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the “location detection” in a non-internet connected phone is only accurate to the nearest cell tower. That’s not accurate enough for you to use it for navigation, but it can prove that you (or your phone) was e.g. in the vicinity of a crime. It would also make it possible for a team of people to track you down with a little searching.
AFAIK, roughly yes.
I think some triangulation can be done with neighbouring cell towers but it's still not really precise - certainly not precise enough for navigation.


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Fnord
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20 Jun 2022, 8:21 am

magz wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the “location detection” in a non-internet connected phone is only accurate to the nearest cell tower. That’s not accurate enough for you to use it for navigation, but it can prove that you (or your phone) was e.g. in the vicinity of a crime. It would also make it possible for a team of people to track you down with a little searching.
AFAIK, roughly yes.
I think some triangulation can be done with neighbouring cell towers but it's still not really precise - certainly not precise enough for navigation.
It depends on the number of towers within range of the phone.

One tower is enough to determine distance from the tower within three or four angular swaths of the tower, out to the maximum range of the tower's transmitters.

Two towers can narrow the location down to a smaller area between the two towers.

Three or more towers can reveal the location of the phone to within a few meters, becoming more accurate as more towers are in range.

If a people do not want to be tracked these days, then shutting off their cell phones and relying on hard-wired home phones (with an answering machine, just like in the 1980s) would be their only option.  But doing so kinda defeats the whole purpose of having a cell phone, n'cest pas?



uncommondenominator
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20 Jun 2022, 11:54 am

Fnord wrote:
magz wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the “location detection” in a non-internet connected phone is only accurate to the nearest cell tower. That’s not accurate enough for you to use it for navigation, but it can prove that you (or your phone) was e.g. in the vicinity of a crime. It would also make it possible for a team of people to track you down with a little searching.
AFAIK, roughly yes.
I think some triangulation can be done with neighbouring cell towers but it's still not really precise - certainly not precise enough for navigation.
[color=black]It depends on the number of towers within range of the phone.

One tower is enough to determine distance from the tower within three or four angular swaths of the tower, out to the maximum range of the tower's transmitters.

Two towers can narrow the location down to a smaller area between the two towers.

Three or more towers can reveal the location of the phone to within a few meters, becoming more accurate as more towers are in range.


And there you go. Even in simplest terms, if you are in range of three towers, and each tower has a set radius, if one draws those radii overlapping, odds are you're in that little section where they overlap. Even if they could only narrow it down to the neighborhood you're in, there's other toys they can use to narrow it down further.



magz
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20 Jun 2022, 12:05 pm

So if you want to really disappear, remove the battery from your phone.


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QFT
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20 Jun 2022, 12:18 pm

magz wrote:
So if you want to really disappear, remove the battery from your phone.


See, people still have that option. And the purpose of microchip implants is to deprive them of that option.



Fnord
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20 Jun 2022, 12:26 pm

QFT wrote:
magz wrote:
So if you want to really disappear, remove the battery from your phone.
See, people still have that option. And the purpose of microchip implants is to deprive them of that option.
You still do not get it, do you?  Your concept of "microchips" simply cannot exist in reality.

You seem to like making stuff up to explain the world around you.  Why not get a real education instead?



magz
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20 Jun 2022, 12:29 pm

QFT wrote:
magz wrote:
So if you want to really disappear, remove the battery from your phone.

See, people still have that option. And the purpose of microchip implants is to deprive them of that option.

Are we discussing some non-existent technology again?


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Fnord
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20 Jun 2022, 12:32 pm

magz wrote:
QFT wrote:
magz wrote:
So if you want to really disappear, remove the battery from your phone.
See, people still have that option. And the purpose of microchip implants is to deprive them of that option.
Are we discussing some non-existent technology again?
He is, we are not.

I often wonder why people make up such fantasies, when the science of reality is infinitely more interesting and impressive!



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20 Jun 2022, 1:19 pm

Fnord wrote:
QFT wrote:
magz wrote:
So if you want to really disappear, remove the battery from your phone.
See, people still have that option. And the purpose of microchip implants is to deprive them of that option.
You still do not get it, do you?  Your concept of "microchips" simply cannot exist in reality.

You seem to like making stuff up to explain the world around you.  Why not get a real education instead?


I didn’t make it up, I read about it on the internet. And I read it on multiple websites, not just one. And when I talk to people about it, most of them heard of it. They don’t believe it’s true, but they heard it.