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cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 6:45 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like people who like to impose their values upon me.


That's why people protest though isn't it? they want to impose their values



kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 6:51 pm

I'm talking about some guy going up to a woman----or even a man----and just, out of the clear blue sky, start talking politics, and expecting an answer. Most people don't want to talk about politics in the street. That has nothing to do with the right to protest.

I believe in the right to protest-----but I don't believe in some of the methods of civil disobedience which are used (like blocking roads, for example).



cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 6:55 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe in the right to protest-----but I don't believe in some of the methods of civil disobedience which are used (like blocking roads, for example).


I think in most western countries you can apply for permission from the local authorities to march through streets and block traffic.



kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 7:01 pm

You could.....but I don't like it!



Twilightprincess
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24 Jun 2022, 7:05 pm

I have no issue with peaceful protests. I don’t like being pestered by random Republicans.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 7:07 pm

I don't like being pestered by random Democrats, either.....

I would probably react worse in my mind should somebody start talking that Trump crap-----but the way some "progressive" ideas are presented sometimes leaves me cold, too.

It's not "black and white." It's not "either or." I believe in the "gray area in between."

I believe, basically, in European-style Social Democracy.



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24 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like being pestered by random Democrats, either.....

I would probably react worse in my mind should somebody start talking that Trump crap-----but the way some "progressive" ideas are presented sometimes leaves me cold, too.


When you have similar viewpoints in a political conversation, the other person probably won’t try to impose his viewpoints on you or try to act like you’re just a little woman who doesn’t know anything. On second thought, that probably wouldn’t happen to you in any situation.


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Last edited by Twilightprincess on 24 Jun 2022, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 7:14 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like being pestered by random Democrats, either.....
.


Don't visit a university campus :lol:



cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 7:16 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
When you have similar viewpoints in a political conversation, the other person probably won’t try to impose his viewpoints on to you


Unless they are handing out pamphlets



Twilightprincess
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24 Jun 2022, 7:16 pm

cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like being pestered by random Democrats, either.....
.


Don't visit a university campus :lol:


I wasn’t pestered by them at my college. They respected the lack of interest that I had at the time.

Anyway, it’s a different situation.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 7:19 pm

I work in a college library, by the way.

I don't mind a political discussion with somebody. When somebody tries to indoctrinate me, though, it bothers me. If I'm told I'm some sort of Nazi just because I don't believe in every facet of Critical Race Theory, it bothers me. I believe in most facets of it----but not all of it. It becomes like the sort of indoctrination practiced in Communist China in the 1960s. And practiced on me at a Trotskyite meeting back in the 1970s.

I don't mind people protesting about whatever. I just don't want to be blocked from getting to my destination.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 24 Jun 2022, 7:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

ASPartOfMe
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24 Jun 2022, 7:19 pm

MaxE wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
MaxE wrote:
This article from Politico directly addresses the OP.
I don't know if Politico has an editorial bias. They seem to publish pieces from different points of view.

I would like to quote The Wikipedia article about BLM:
Quote:
Black Lives Matter (BLM) is a decentralized political and social movement that seeks to highlight racism, discrimination, and inequality experienced by black people. When its supporters come together, they do so primarily to protest incidents of police brutality and racially motivated violence against black people. It started following the killings of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Pamela Turner and Rekia Boyd, among others. The movement and its related organizations typically advocate for various policy changes considered to be related to black liberation. While there are specific organizations that label themselves simply as "Black Lives Matter," such as the Black Lives Matter Global Network, the overall movement is a decentralized network of people and organizations with no formal hierarchy. The slogan "Black Lives Matter" itself remains untrademarked by any group. Despite being characterized by some as a violent movement, the overwhelming majority of its public demonstrations have been peaceful.

It aggravates me when people refer to BLM leaders who are "trained Marxists" like how do you train to be a Marxist and who would train you? Like there are people who have made such claims but they are insignificant nobodies. Their names are unknown to Americans. The people who came to BLM protests to commit violent acts or to loot had no political agenda. They were common criminals inspired by a culture of violence that seems to be everywhere.

I think we should pledge to stop using the phrase "BLM riots" as a way to confuse the issue, especially as regards non-Americans who could be confused into believing that a "BLM riot" is an actual thing.

How do you train Marxists? You are going to have to ask BLM founder Patricia Cullers how that is done as she is the one that made that claim.

Progressivism Marxism Underpins Black Lives Matter Agenda
Quote:
So, Black Lives Matter at least has a good start on accomplishing Garza’s goal of “dismantling the organizing principle of society.” But what does it seek to put in its place?

Garza, Patrisse Cullors, and Opal Tometi, Black Lives Matter’s three main founders, have always been candid about their Marxism, which is a synonym for communism.

In 2015, Garza told SF Weekly that “social movements all over the world have used Marx and Lenin as a foundation to interrupt these systems that are really negatively impacting the majority of people.”

Also that year, she told a gathering of world communists, Left Forum, that it’s “not possible for a world to emerge where black lives matter if it’s under capitalism, and it’s not possible to abol­ish capitalism without a struggle against national oppression.”

As for Cullors, she has affirmed on the record several times that she’s a Marxist. In fact, with so many journalists denying that she is a communist, Cullors herself released a video on Dec. 14 stating clearly:

Am I a Marxist? … I do believe in Marxism. It’s a philosophy that I learned really early on in my organizing career … .
She subsequently adds:

… the U.S. is so good at propaganda and being like … it has sold the idea of the American dream, and that’s tied into capitalism and wealth. It’s much harder to sell communism … .

In a June 2020 interview, Cullors said of Garza and herself: “We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories.”


As far “BLM riots” there is rarely a perfectly accurate way to name a riot because as you mentioned there are so many motivations both personal and political. They named the 1992 riots the “LA riot” and the “Rodney King riot”. The “LA riot” was a continuation of the 1960s naming them after the location where they occurred. You could not do that in 2020;for obvious reasons. Naming them for George Floyd seems more inaccurate then “Black Lives Matter” which was the phrase everybody was using at time.

As for the claim it was just a bunch common criminals there is no way of knowing for sure, as far as I know no surveys have been done of the the rioters. You are probably right about the looters, but common criminals do not explain the burning of the police station in Minneapolis, the vandalism of over three hundred police cars and torching of 14 in New York.


So the quote turns out to be from the Heritage Foundation which is a well-known source of right wing propaganda. Anyway, calling Patricia Cullors the Founder of BLM is a propaganda tactic. She founded an organization she called BLM but she is self appointed, she didn't originate the grassroots movement by any means. It's not much of stretch to imagine the Right put her up to this as she's such a convenient bogeyman. I challenge you to go into any public space and ask 100 people if they recognize the name Patricia Cullors and find anyone who says yes. I have only seen her name in the context of Right Wing propaganda. Back in my day, everyone knew who Angela Davis was. She was without a doubt a Marxist but I would have no idea who trained her.
oy
Bottom line anything out of the Heritage Foundation is crap and should be properly labeled.

Of course, it would be a conservative/right agenda organization that would pick up stuff the mainstream media does not see as does Michael Moore because he has an agenda that lets him see things the mainstream media does not. The Heritage Foundation is not a Rupert Murdoch tabloid they are a think tank. Did the Heritage Foundation make it all up? I have not seen any of those people mentioned say they were misquoted or taken out of context.



How well known a person is a matter of media coverage. I can speculate as to why Davis had more publicity than Cullors if you want but the bottom line is unlike Davis, Cullors is a founder and leader.


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kraftiekortie
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24 Jun 2022, 7:22 pm

I happen to like Michael Moore's movies. Sometimes, he went a bit overboard----but I believe in most of what he says.



cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 7:24 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't like being pestered by random Democrats, either.....
.


Don't visit a university campus :lol:


I wasn’t pestered by them at my college. They respected the lack of interest that I had at the time.

Anyway, it’s a different situation.


In Australian campuses they have loudspeakers and blast unsuspecting pedestrian's ear drums.



cyberdad
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24 Jun 2022, 7:25 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I happen to like Michael Moore's movies. Sometimes, he went a bit overboard----but I believe in most of what he says.


Bowling for Columbine was my favourite.



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24 Jun 2022, 8:31 pm

r00tb33r wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
California is actually not crazy “to the rest of us.” It may be crazy to some but not to everyone. It’s not a different country at all. Politically, I identify with California much more than my home state. It also should be noted that it would not be as dominant as you are claiming.

It’s true that Republicans would not like it, but they still have Texas, although it’s not as red as it used to be (yay!) and many other states.

The Founding Fathers were smart but not perfect. The Constitution is not a sacred document. It’s understandable that it would not be 100% applicable for our day.

A government that is “for the people” should reflect what the majority of its people want whether or not you think that the people of specific regions and their values are “crazy.”

Mmm. No. California is positively certifiably batsh*t insane. Thanks to California if I go to the home improvement store every single plank of wood that I will pick up and buy (even the little hardwood floor trim planks) are stamped with the words "blah blah blah wood sawdust is known to the state of California to potentially cause cancer blah blah blah". Every, single, one. By law, they make lumber producers stamp that on every piece. Not only is that wasteful in terms of resources to perform that operation, it likely also adds to the cost of the product for no good reason.
...I guess they forgot to stamp that on every wood pencil I used and sharpened at school. Oh, no, no, don't want to give them any more ideas.

I rest my case.


Any time you have a super majority in a state, there will be a few overboard laws. At least our overboard laws are silly, relatively innocent, and not life hindering. Producers can deal with a little overboard stamping.


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