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Cornflake
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24 Jun 2022, 11:40 am

A terrible, backwards-looking decision.
It's another step towards making "The Handmaid's Tale" a reality.


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24 Jun 2022, 11:45 am

Cornflake wrote:
A terrible, backwards-looking decision.
It's another step towards making "The Handmaid's Tale" a reality.


They want it to be the 1950s again.



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24 Jun 2022, 11:51 am

I wonder if the real reason behind this is not religious ideals, but rather ensuring an abundant supply of human beings to serve the ruling elite. People are pretty much commodities at this point. The religious argument may just to a smokescreen.

Yeah, we have to ensure that we have enough obedient workers, and soldiers willing to die to make defence contractors rich.


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Last edited by VegetableMan on 24 Jun 2022, 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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24 Jun 2022, 11:53 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:

This decision denies women dominion over their own bodies.


Absolutely.

This denies girls and women the fundamental human right of bodily ownership that boys and men have.
This begins at birth whether the girl / woman ever falls pregnant or not.

Which of their body parts do men not own?


The main male bodily autonomy issue would be routine infant circumcision.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
The very people that want abortions banned are usually the same that b***h about single women with kids getting government aid.
They are actually "Pro-Birth", not "Pro-Life".

I like that. I’ve heard someone say that before, and it’s relevant. I think I’d best describe myself as anti-murder, though, because it is conceivable that killing could be justified. Abortion can be justified. Mississippi’s trigger law allows for cases that would threaten the mother’s life.

If a case is going to be made for Constitutionally protected abortion as an unenumerated right, there will have to be a Supreme Court case in which a woman was incarcerated for having an abortion while her life was in danger. A more powerful statement would be if a woman died in childbirth after being denied an abortion.

Think back to when SCOTUS reversed precedent in the past. Plesse v Ferguson found that the constitutional rights of blacks under segregation was not infringed as long as blacks had the same access to equal goods and services. Brown v BOE found that separate was inherently unequal. Does a ban on abortion demonstrate an unreasonable denial of rights of women to life, liberty, and pursuit of money? Is there something unusual about women having babies? As long as having babies is routine and no more or less a restriction on the opportunities of women within reason, it's not unreasonable to ban abortion. Contrast with racial slavery, which IS unusual and unreasonable in a country that espouses freedom. It IS reasonable and normal to restrict freedom of criminals and commit them to involuntary servitude.

And that is up to legislators as to the appropriate restriction of freedom. Freedom in the USA has never been absolute. The right to self-defense no longer applies when another person doesn't pose a threat. Loss of affection is not an excuse to kill the guy who stole your girlfriend or wife. It is not reasonable to completely ban abortion. If anyone dares attempt a total ban of abortion, the negative consequences of such stupidity will be almost immediately apparent. It won’t last. However, the protection of the unborn innocent is a positive. I’m looking forward to seeing how far things go in the next year.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:05 pm

magz wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you are in a red state, you most likely never would have been or would be interested in getting an abortion.
That's extreme wishful thinking.
Ok, of course men never consider getting an abortion. And some women, as long as their situation is roughly okay - that includes myself. And old people. Here, you've got majority in any state.

The problem is only with women who feel desperate. But they are never the majority. You tell me they don't exist in Red states?

Women in red states vote, too.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:10 pm

Misslizard wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you are in a red state, you most likely never would have been or would be interested in getting an abortion.


Nonsense.


I was trying to think of a polite way to answer this too, Sweetleaf.
You're more tactful than I am.

I live in a red state and know several women that exercised their right to choose.

No doubt. But that doesn’t reflect a majority sentiment that favors abortion. A ban affects far fewer concerned people in your state. This is not a problem in blue states.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:12 pm

It affects all human beings in terms of their sovereignty and their equality.

Are you saying there are fewer human beings in “red” states?



magz
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24 Jun 2022, 12:21 pm

AngelRho wrote:
magz wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you are in a red state, you most likely never would have been or would be interested in getting an abortion.
That's extreme wishful thinking.
Ok, of course men never consider getting an abortion. And some women, as long as their situation is roughly okay - that includes myself. And old people. Here, you've got majority in any state.

The problem is only with women who feel desperate. But they are never the majority. You tell me they don't exist in Red states?
Women in red states vote, too.
The most crazy anti-abortion activist in Poland is a woman, Kaja Godek.
She was among those behind the change in law that does not allow abortion even if the baby is known they wouldn't survive after birth. That's current law in Poland. Yes, there has been already a death of a mother who was denied abortion - the docs waited for the baby to die which ended in the mother dying, too.
And it was a woman who made this law - Julia Przyłębska.

Who say women are solidary to each other's suffering? Just as men send other men to die in wars.


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24 Jun 2022, 12:22 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
I wonder if the real reason behind this is not religious ideals, but rather ensuring an abundant supply of human beings to serve the ruling elite. People are pretty much commodities at this point. The religious argument may just to a smokescreen.

Yeah, we have to ensure that we have enough obedient workers, and soldiers willing to die to make defence contractors rich.


Makes sense. Why not just work people to death for the sake of capitalism rather than the alternative.

Also it is the truth that governments enjoy blame shifting so why not blame all of this on religion.

They'll be putting people in camps next.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:34 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Is there something unusual about women having babies? As long as having babies is routine and no more or less a restriction on the opportunities of women within reason, it's not unreasonable to ban abortion.
You don't talk much to your wife about how much it takes, do you?
I had to give up my career and needed psychiatric treatment because the burden of being a mother turned out more than I could carry. And I'm lucky to have a loving husband and no financial problems.
I never considered an abortion myself - but after what I've been throught, I can't judge women who make the other choice.


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24 Jun 2022, 12:37 pm

This is a deeply shameful moment in America's history and yet there's imbeciles celebrating.


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24 Jun 2022, 12:40 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
This is a deeply shameful moment in America's history and yet there's imbeciles celebrating.


Yep...just when you think the world can't get any madder.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:41 pm

babybird wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I wonder if the real reason behind this is not religious ideals, but rather ensuring an abundant supply of human beings to serve the ruling elite. People are pretty much commodities at this point. The religious argument may just to a smokescreen.

Yeah, we have to ensure that we have enough obedient workers, and soldiers willing to die to make defence contractors rich.


Makes sense. Why not just work people to death for the sake of capitalism rather than the alternative.

Also it is the truth that governments enjoy blame shifting so why not blame all of this on religion.

They'll be putting people in camps next.


It's about power and control. Who has the power to make the laws controls the people.



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24 Jun 2022, 12:42 pm

babybird wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
This is a deeply shameful moment in America's history and yet there's imbeciles celebrating.
Yep...just when you think the world can't get any madder.
Pessimist: 'It can't be worse!'
Optimist: 'Sure it can!'

I'm an 'optimist' in this regard, unfortunately.


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24 Jun 2022, 12:43 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
If you are in a red state, you most likely never would have been or would be interested in getting an abortion.


Nonsense.


I was trying to think of a polite way to answer this too, Sweetleaf.
You're more tactful than I am.

I live in a red state and know several women that exercised their right to choose.

No doubt. But that doesn’t reflect a majority sentiment that favors abortion. A ban affects far fewer concerned people in your state. This is not a problem in blue states.

My state has the lowest voter turn out, a horrid educational system and the worst infant mortality rate.
https://www.kark.com/news/local-news/ar ... worse/amp/
I expect that rate will go up even more now.


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