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why should billionaires get to avoid taxation
divine right of kings :king: 11%  11%  [ 1 ]
well at least they aren't on welfare :doh: 22%  22%  [ 2 ]
i don't know. :shrug: 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
unfair. :x 22%  22%  [ 2 ]
where's my thousand-dollar saffron ice cream? :chef: 44%  44%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 9

auntblabby
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28 Jun 2022, 3:12 am

https://www.nationofchange.org/2022/06/ ... pic-scale/

hint: buy a sport team and write off the "depreciation of assets." i would not call this a fair situation, and i don't know how it could not be widely seen as civically corrosive when you have the people on top calling the shots and not paying taxes the way the rest of us must.



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29 Jun 2022, 6:44 pm

It amuses me to some extend how the internet is all "the decline of western civilisation because of neo marxist trans ideology" and "europe is being overrun by muslim immigrants", when the most glaring issue is wealth inequality, and the rich pouring gasoline in the fire.

I'm not even exaggerating - the German AfD started out as a party for and by disgruntled citizens who felt globalized capitalism wasn't working for them, and a few years later, it's a neo-nazi historical revisionist party run by disgruntled gentry and upper class tax evaders out of switzerland.

As Walther Benjamin wrote: every fascism is the sign of a failed revolution.


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auntblabby
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29 Jun 2022, 6:51 pm

things have gotten worse since leona hemsley [BIH] said "only the little people pay taxes."



Texasmoneyman300
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01 Jul 2022, 4:32 am

I think my fellow oil barons(well its my dads technically) pay too much in taxes and should get way more tax breaks than we do.



Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 01 Jul 2022, 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mountain Goat
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01 Jul 2022, 4:39 am

shlaifu wrote:
It amuses me to some extend how the internet is all "the decline of western civilisation because of neo marxist trans ideology" and "europe is being overrun by muslim immigrants", when the most glaring issue is wealth inequality, and the rich pouring gasoline in the fire.

I'm not even exaggerating - the German AfD started out as a party for and by disgruntled citizens who felt globalized capitalism wasn't working for them, and a few years later, it's a neo-nazi historical revisionist party run by disgruntled gentry and upper class tax evaders out of switzerland.

As Walther Benjamin wrote: every fascism is the sign of a failed revolution.


I don't think the rich would waste their money. Have you seen the prices of petrol these days?



Texasmoneyman300
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01 Jul 2022, 4:42 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
It amuses me to some extend how the internet is all "the decline of western civilisation because of neo marxist trans ideology" and "europe is being overrun by muslim immigrants", when the most glaring issue is wealth inequality, and the rich pouring gasoline in the fire.

I'm not even exaggerating - the German AfD started out as a party for and by disgruntled citizens who felt globalized capitalism wasn't working for them, and a few years later, it's a neo-nazi historical revisionist party run by disgruntled gentry and upper class tax evaders out of switzerland.

As Walther Benjamin wrote: every fascism is the sign of a failed revolution.


I don't think the rich would waste their money. Have you seen the prices of petrol these days?

Ya the rich did not get that way by wasting their money.



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01 Jul 2022, 6:04 am

Trump knew what he was doing! By reducing the taxes it makes the rich actually pay taxes directly ad therefore the country itself gets a better income than when the rich find ways to avoid paying their taxes which is actually a very smart move to gin wealth for the country.

The problem with the tax system in most countries is that the richer one gets the higher the tax rates go, and the more the rich people simply decide to move to another country where they will pay less tax. One could say "Sure. Go abroad and take your money with you!" But for every one rich person that does that, thousands of poorer people have to make up the difference in the taxes so that the only way the not so wealthy can avoid paying too much tax is to have more wealthy people living in the country, or for the country to cut down on its expenses which means to go without some of the things ones government provides.

I personally think that the tax loopholes should be stopped BUT that the tax system should not over tax the rich because we really (As a country) need them as if our rich leave our country (Or your country) our countries would financially collapse as only some of the rich avoid paying tax by these tax dodging methods.

I am in favour of simplifying tax and one element of our UK's tax system I feel needs to be addressed is the stupidity of taxing workers who are directly or indirectly employed by the government system. Their pay should be lowered to reflect the tax they are not deducted so they do not loose out, and their pensions should be based aon the rate as if they had payed tax so they don't loose out, but the reason why I say thwy should not pay tax is it is stupid and just wastes money! We are taking taxes off pay given to them by the government and then handing the money back in taxes which just adds a lot of waste of office work that the country did not need to pay out for. It is obvious that with government and council (State) officials that taxing their incomes are a pointless excercise, but it is teachers, firemen, healthcare workers and all associated with the NHS, police, library staff.... Any employees of any organisations that are employed directly or indirectly by the government. This will save a lot of money for the governmental system.

Remember that a countries income ONLY comes through the private sector. This is the sector that for the wellbeing of the country needs to be looked after for any government. Margaret Thatcher knew this. She tried to get more people independant and into the private sector and away from the national industries because the system was inwardly collapsing and one would have to be blindedly thick not to see this if one had any grasp about how things work and how countries are (Or need to be) financially run. Before WW2 British jobs in the public sector were 6% and today it is far higher. In Wales it was 65% and is now far higher which shows that it is a sheer impossibility for Wales to ever be financially independent unless we focus on getting our industry back! If it wasn't for the stock exchange in London the UK would be broke! (If this should collapse we will be broke as this is our largest industry. In Wales the largest industry is (Unless it has changed) the weapons manufacturing and associated industries so we rely on war to gain some of our wealth, but as a lot of this sector is now owned by the USA, it means the wealth is no longer ours which shows how broke we are!).
We (Wales... and the UK) needs our primary and secondary industries back to earn ourselves an income. Service industries (Tertiary industries) do not earn the country money unless they provide their services to the primary (E.g. mining and farming etc) or to the secondary (E.g. steel making and various factories making things out of the mined products) industries as tertiary industries taxable income is nullified (As in wealth to the country) when they are not able to earn through providing their services to employees or employers of the secondary and primary industries. I hope this makes sense? It will if one thinks in depth about it.

Green energy industries that rely on grants to survive only rob the country and the poorer people of their wealth and transfer this wealth to the rich. This is why some countries are pushing green energy like mad, as it is the key tool that the ultra rich use governments to squeeze the wealth out of the poor and out of the countries wealth, so whenever you hear of a country that is pushing directly for enviromentally friendly ways to go forwards into the future (When if one actually examines these ways they are at best carbon neutral and at worst pollute far more then the industries do with hidden pollution as the pollution is removed from the source of production), you are looking at a country that is not controlled by its people, but is controlled by the ultra rich, and this is why the ultra rich dictate government policies so they provide for themselves these tax loopholes so they can avoid paying tax...
The beauty of the "Green" movement is that they use ordinary folk as pawns to do their work for them!



kraftiekortie
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01 Jul 2022, 6:33 am

Of course not!



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01 Jul 2022, 6:02 pm

A far right winger once told me I didn't have the qualifications to become rich. He said that billionaires may be the most evil bastards on the planet, but if there's one thing they're not is stupid. Stupid doesn't get rich is what he said.

Based on that, I'm stupid because I reject trickle down economics and I'm supposed to give praise to the wealthy because they're smarter than me?

To Hell with all that.


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auntblabby
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02 Jul 2022, 4:11 am

eat the rich, they're tender from never having had to do hard work.



Texasmoneyman300
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02 Jul 2022, 4:52 am

auntblabby wrote:
eat the rich, they're tender from never having had to do hard work.

How would you get gasoline and diesel and jet fuel if there were no more rich people.The common worker is not capable of running a oil company successfully like my dad so we need rich people to own oil and gas companies.The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.



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02 Jul 2022, 7:32 am

A solution for this problem has existed for ages:

Image


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02 Jul 2022, 7:36 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.


That seems unlikely to alter their behaviour, which is to always maximize profits. You can present a hypothetical case about why it should go down, but based on how they actually behave they'd pocket the tax cut and collude to keep prices the same.


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The_Walrus
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02 Jul 2022, 9:22 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
Trump knew what he was doing! By reducing the taxes it makes the rich actually pay taxes directly ad therefore the country itself gets a better income than when the rich find ways to avoid paying their taxes which is actually a very smart move to gin wealth for the country.

That would be true in a country with very high taxes, but it isn't true for a low-tax economy like the US.

Mountain Goat wrote:
I personally think that the tax loopholes should be stopped BUT that the tax system should not over tax the rich because we really (As a country) need them as if our rich leave our country (Or your country) our countries would financially collapse as only some of the rich avoid paying tax by these tax dodging methods.

That's very sensible.

Mountain Goat wrote:
one element of our UK's tax system I feel needs to be addressed is the stupidity of taxing workers who are directly or indirectly employed by the government system. Their pay should be lowered to reflect the tax they are not deducted so they do not loose out, and their pensions should be based aon the rate as if they had payed tax so they don't loose out, but the reason why I say thwy should not pay tax is it is stupid and just wastes money! We are taking taxes off pay given to them by the government and then handing the money back in taxes which just adds a lot of waste of office work that the country did not need to pay out for.

Pay-as-you-earn is largely automated. Unfortunately your proposed system would seem to increase the administrative burden. If nothing else, switching between the two systems would be expensive.

Mountain Goat wrote:
Remember that a countries income ONLY comes through the private sector.

That's also not true. There are many things the private sector is better at doing than the public sector, but there aren't many things that the public sector can't do. The public sector can and does generate wealth - for example, the Elizabeth Line will generate a lot of wealth despite being a public project.

Mountain Goat wrote:
We (Wales... and the UK) needs our primary and secondary industries back to earn ourselves an income. Service industries (Tertiary industries) do not earn the country money unless they provide their services to the primary (E.g. mining and farming etc) or to the secondary (E.g. steel making and various factories making things out of the mined products) industries as tertiary industries taxable income is nullified (As in wealth to the country) when they are not able to earn through providing their services to employees or employers of the secondary and primary industries. I hope this makes sense? It will if one thinks in depth about it.

That is incorrect again. Actually, to be honest, large parts of it are incoherent. For one thing, you just said that financial services are the "largest industry", and we'll go broke without them, but they're a tertiary industry. No, their income is not "nullified". They are affected by downturns just the same as a steel plant.

Mountain Goat wrote:
Green energy industries that rely on grants to survive only rob the country and the poorer people of their wealth and transfer this wealth to the rich. This is why some countries are pushing green energy like mad, as it is the key tool that the ultra rich use governments to squeeze the wealth out of the poor and out of the countries wealth, so whenever you hear of a country that is pushing directly for enviromentally friendly ways to go forwards into the future (When if one actually examines these ways they are at best carbon neutral and at worst pollute far more then the industries do with hidden pollution as the pollution is removed from the source of production), you are looking at a country that is not controlled by its people, but is controlled by the ultra rich, and this is why the ultra rich dictate government policies so they provide for themselves these tax loopholes so they can avoid paying tax...
The beauty of the "Green" movement is that they use ordinary folk as pawns to do their work for them!

This is entirely nonsense, with no basis in fact. Literally every statement made would be more accurate if it was the exact opposite. Are trains more polluting than cars? Are trains used by the ultra-rich to control the people? What about the subsidies on petrol and diesel?



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02 Jul 2022, 2:06 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
The price of gasoline would go way down if oil barons did not have to pay taxes.


That seems unlikely to alter their behaviour, which is to always maximize profits. You can present a hypothetical case about why it should go down, but based on how they actually behave they'd pocket the tax cut and collude to keep prices the same.

The oil bidness would total collapse if there were no tax breaks.we would prolly have to import abour 70 to 90 percent of the America oil needs from OPEC and Canada and Mexico and Norway.All fracking would be gone for good.Gasoline would prolly be about 15 to 20 bucks a gallon if my family's company did not get mega tax subsidies.Collusion would be illegal for the American oil companies according to my economics teacher.



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02 Jul 2022, 2:31 pm

One of my cousins refuses to speak with me because: (1) he believes that wealthier relatives SHOULD provide financial support for the less wealthier relatives; and (2) when he asked me for a multi-thousand dollar loan, I asked him when he would pay it back, and what he would put up as collateral. I was not going to charge interest, but he still accused me of being greedy and exploitive. Several other relatives (all under-educated and chronically under-employed) have expressed similar opinions.

Asking them where they were when I was unemployed and homeless yields only profanity and their denigration of my humanity (among other things). These people also had the same opportunities as I, but did not take them.

All this keeps me living on the West Coast, while they all live east of the Mississippi.