To Woke, or not to Woke. Mr. Apu on the Simpsons.

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kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2022, 5:07 pm

Like I said. I’d have to watch it.

There are Jews who don’t like being stereotyped. Does that mean we “cancel” all Yiddish theater?

Everybody stereotypes each other.



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09 Aug 2022, 5:09 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Everybody stereotypes each other.


Just because people do it doesn’t mean that it’s okay, especially when we’re talking about race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2022, 5:25 pm

No one’s experience is everyone’s experience.

If we made that claim, we would claim to be God.



kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2022, 5:48 pm

Big Bang Theory, basically, is one big stereotype of Aspies and of supposedly vacuous blonde women.

I don't believe we should "cancel" it because of this

There are pretty negative and caricaturized portrayals of Aspie-like characters within that show. Sheldon Cooper, as far as I'm concerned, is a caricature of many negative Aspie characteristics. I find him to be an offensive character---but he's an essential component of the show, and of the comedy within the show.



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09 Aug 2022, 5:50 pm

Race is fake, there's no such thing as cultural appropriation, and the woke are being even dumber than usual in objecting to the portrayal of an immigrant as a selfless, hardworking family man who owns his own small business, and they're usually pretty damn dumb in the first place. You'd really think they had more important things to worry about, but somehow stuff like this always seems to make the cut.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2022, 5:56 pm

Race IS fake.....but try telling that to those who created the Jim Crow laws in the post-Reconstruction South.



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09 Aug 2022, 5:59 pm

Even though race is scientifically erroneous, racial prejudice and stereotyping still occur and hurt many people.


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kraftiekortie
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09 Aug 2022, 6:02 pm

It certainly does.....



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09 Aug 2022, 9:34 pm

This is different than a live-action show or movie where each role is usually cast individually. In that case, if you've got an Indian character you should cast an Indian actor. But Azaria voiced half the town. The idea that one comedian can voice people of various ages and backgrounds and it's totally fine, but not someone of a different race, is a bit segregationist to me.



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09 Aug 2022, 9:53 pm

Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, not only is this news over a year old, but it was obviously Mr. Azaria's own uncoerced decision.
So what?
So what, "So what?"?


Oh Im sorry. I thought you were trying to make a point. So in fact you werent making any point.



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09 Aug 2022, 10:22 pm

vividgroovy wrote:
This is different than a live-action show or movie where each role is usually cast individually. In that case, if you've got an Indian character you should cast an Indian actor. But Azaria voiced half the town. The idea that one comedian can voice people of various ages and backgrounds and it's totally fine, but not someone of a different race, is a bit segregationist to me.


Some people in the entertainment industry are acutely aware of the scarce opportunities for minorities to represent themselves (if the characters are even created in the first place), and of Hollywood's history of misrepresentations in the past. They would like to 1. avoid pereptuating those oftentimes atrocious "mistakes" and 2. open the door to actors of various backgrounds to actually represent those backgrounds. To some people, an Anglo-European/white actor voicing a character of a different race or ethnicity is not that far removed from white actors smearing themselves in dark makeup and pretending to be Africans or black Americans.

In the case of Apu, I want to emphasize that this was Hank Azaria's own, personal choice. HIS.

To suggest that this is some sort of "segregation" is an absolutely ridiculous idea. I think you're misunderstanding the word entirely.



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09 Aug 2022, 10:42 pm

KimD wrote:
vividgroovy wrote:
This is different than a live-action show or movie where each role is usually cast individually. In that case, if you've got an Indian character you should cast an Indian actor. But Azaria voiced half the town. The idea that one comedian can voice people of various ages and backgrounds and it's totally fine, but not someone of a different race, is a bit segregationist to me.


Some people in the entertainment industry are acutely aware of the scarce opportunities for minorities to represent themselves (if the characters are even created in the first place), and of Hollywood's history of misrepresentations in the past. They would like to 1. avoid pereptuating those oftentimes atrocious "mistakes" and 2. open the door to actors of various backgrounds to actually represent those backgrounds. To some people, an Anglo-European/white actor voicing a character of a different race or ethnicity is not that far removed from white actors smearing themselves in dark makeup and pretending to be Africans or black Americans.

In the case of Apu, I want to emphasize that this was Hank Azaria's own, personal choice. HIS.

To suggest that this is some sort of "segregation" is an absolutely ridiculous idea. I think you're misunderstanding the word entirely.


I understand what you're saying. It's a complicated issue that we probably wouldn't be facing if studios had just had more diverse casting in the first place instead of always casting white people.

For another example of what I'm talking about: in a recent interview, white comedian Dan Akroyd said that "maybe" he shouldn't do his impression of his late friend, singer James Brown, because he was black. Whether or not Akroyd chooses to stop doing that impression is his own choice, of course. But this is the kind of thing I'm referring to as a form of segregationist thinking. The idea that a comedian can do impressions of any individual of their own race -- whether it be celebrities, or people they know personally, or both -- but not an individual of another race. I recently saw an old clip of Billy Crystal doing his impression of Howard Cosell and Muhammed Ali having a conversation. Do we need to bring in a black comedian to do the Ali impression? I don't think so. I think the kind of voice acting that Azaria and Harry Shearer do on "Simpsons" is more akin to stand-up than traditional live-action acting.



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09 Aug 2022, 10:51 pm

There are stereotypes everywhere. That doesn't mean that something should be canceled because it offends people.


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10 Aug 2022, 8:28 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, not only is this news over a year old, but it was obviously Mr. Azaria's own uncoerced decision.
So what?
So what, "So what?"?
Oh Im sorry. I thought you were trying to make a point. So in fact you werent making any point.
The point I made was in the statement I posted -- that the decision to stop voicing Apu was the voice-actor's own free-will choice.  Do you have a problem with that?


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shortfatbalduglyman
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10 Aug 2022, 8:47 am

The "real Indian American couple" is not necessarily a representative sample

The way the Simpsons portrays Apu, I think, is racist

However, it is not possible to have a TV show that doesn't offend anyone in the solar system

Anyone could be offended by anything

8 billion people in the solar system

Likewise, Homer doesn't represent fat people

Mr burns doesn't represent rich people

Chief wiggum doesn't represent the cops

The Simpsons is racist and funny. Not mutually exclusive



naturalplastic
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10 Aug 2022, 8:50 am

Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, not only is this news over a year old, but it was obviously Mr. Azaria's own uncoerced decision.
So what?
So what, "So what?"?
Oh Im sorry. I thought you were trying to make a point. So in fact you werent making any point.
The point I made was in the statement I posted -- that the decision to stop voicing Apu was the voice-actor's own free-will choice.  Do you have a problem with that?


Exactly. You were not making any point. :D