To Woke, or not to Woke. Mr. Apu on the Simpsons.

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Fnord
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10 Aug 2022, 8:52 am

shortfatbalduglyman wrote:
Anyone could be offended by anything.
You are right -- I feel offended by the character of Sheldon in Big Bang Theory, but so what?  My feelings are mine to deal with, and I do not believe that the people who made BBT were out to offend me (or anyone else).

I watched a few episodes now and then, but never became a loyal viewer.  Them's the breaks.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Aug 2022, 9:00 am

It's a funny and entertaining show. I like watching it. It's not one of my favorites----not something I would run home to watch.

Sheldon Cooper, of course, is a walking stereotype. He irritates me; but he's supposed to irritate me. That's the premise of the show.



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10 Aug 2022, 9:04 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Sheldon Cooper, of course, is a walking stereotype. He irritates me; but he's supposed to irritate me. That's the premise of the show.
If that is what make you happy, then who am I to condemn you for it?  I watch sitcoms -- like The Simpsons -- to be entertained, not irritated.  If I ever want to be irritated, there is always the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

Come to think of it, why does there seem to be no outrage from the right over The Simpsons' character of Reverend Lovejoy?


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kraftiekortie
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10 Aug 2022, 9:09 am

Sheldon Cooper is an essential part of the show---but so is Leonard and the gang. They, not Sheldon, is why I enjoy the show.

Alas, though, if there was no Sheldon, there would be no show.

In essence, Aristotle thought that the best sort of entertainment was one which made you think "beyond the box."



Fnord
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10 Aug 2022, 9:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Aristotle thought that the best sort of entertainment was one which made you think "beyond the box."
Which is why I mostly watch PBS shows like Nova, and stream shows from Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.


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10 Aug 2022, 9:14 am

Fnord wrote:
Come to think of it, why does there seem to be no outrage from the right over The Simpsons' character of Reverend Lovejoy?[/color]

Maybe because they think that would reflect badly on their complaints about “wokeness” - the pot calling the kettle black.

Or maybe they’re too busy complaining about trans people using bathrooms.


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Fnord
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10 Aug 2022, 9:53 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
So, not only is this news over a year old, but it was obviously Mr. Azaria's own uncoerced decision.
You were not making any point.
The point is that Mr. Azaria made his own decision; it was not made for him by the "woke" movement.


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The_Walrus
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10 Aug 2022, 10:18 am

Alright, two parts to this post. I finally worked out how to do the mod tags! (It isn’t hard, I just haven’t tried before)

 ! The_Walrus wrote:
Please remember to engage constructively with each other. Don’t prod each other to bait a reaction, don’t paint with a broad brush, the usual stuff that I shouldn’t really have to say.

Alright, now for the regular user part. First it’s slightly weird that this is coming up now, and in PPR rather than TV, but whatever.

Secondly this isn’t down to “the woke crowd” or “the left” or whatever convenient boogeyman you want to throw tomatoes at. It isn’t a case of w****y patronising the brown guy. Criticism of Azaria’s performance has come primarily from Indian-Americans (and people who could be mistaken for Indian-Americans). It first received attention when an Indian-American stand-up comic made a documentary called The Problem With Apu in 2017, in which he interviewed a number of Indian-American celebrities about their feelings towards Apu. Many reported being bullied as a child because of Apu. Honestly, that resonates with me. I have seen the same thing. Some also reported being asked to do Apu impressions at auditions.

Now, OK, maybe you don’t think children being bullied and actors being asked to do impressions is a good reason for a TV show to recast characters. But let’s call this what it is. People saw themselves being stereotyped and they didn’t like it.

There is a separate movement to have all cartoon characters voiced by people with the same ethnic background. To me this is less compelling and has some serious flaws, but it’s also not something I care about, at all.



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10 Aug 2022, 10:22 am

I loved the Apu character, really all of them ,and was never offended by Cletus.
Obviously not all the “woke crowd” takes offense at good natured humor.


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Fnord
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10 Aug 2022, 12:28 pm

(I gotta remember to not post until the caffeine level in my blood reaches 0.08 percent.  Koo-koo-ka-joob!)

Misslizard wrote:
I . . . was never offended by Cletus.
Are you not offended by the image below?
Image


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Joe90
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10 Aug 2022, 4:34 pm

Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Sheldon Cooper, of course, is a walking stereotype. He irritates me; but he's supposed to irritate me. That's the premise of the show.
If that is what make you happy, then who am I to condemn you for it?  I watch sitcoms -- like The Simpsons -- to be entertained, not irritated.  If I ever want to be irritated, there is always the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

Come to think of it, why does there seem to be no outrage from the right over The Simpsons' character of Reverend Lovejoy?


There will never be outrage over any characters that are white. The mod even used the word "w****y" I think it was, even though it got censored. I claim that is RACIST and I'm deeply offended! We're not whiteys, we're Caucasian descendents.


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10 Aug 2022, 4:38 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Many reported being bullied as a child because of Apu.


I find that to be a laughable assertion, as if children only pick on people who look and speak differently than them because a character existed on a TV show (that wasn't even aimed at children), especially a character who was portrayed in an unusually positive light on a generally cynical show.


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10 Aug 2022, 4:40 pm

Fnord wrote:
The point is that Mr. Azaria made his own decision; it was not made for him by the "woke" movement.


Made his "own decision" with a metaphorical gun to his head; think he would have made the same choice without the pressure campaign raising a stink for years on end?


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10 Aug 2022, 4:43 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Maybe because they think that would reflect badly on their complaints about “wokeness” - the pot calling the kettle black.


The show and the character long predate wokeness and the protests against it, the more likely explanation is that they found the character funny as they recognized his foibles from their own experience.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Aug 2022, 4:48 pm

If it was the choice of the person "playing" him, then why fuss about it?



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10 Aug 2022, 5:03 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
If it was the choice of the person "playing" him, then why fuss about it?


Because I don't buy that a "choice" made in the face of an ongoing public pressure campaign was truly voluntary, for one. For another, I find this strain of identity absolutism to be toxic and destructive, and will point that out whenever given the opportunity. Who voices a character on a superannuated cartoon sitcom isn't of any real import, but the forces behind it are worth opposing.


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