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aghogday
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11 Sep 2022, 2:27 am

Dox47 wrote:
aghogday wrote:
You Think; That’s Not What
Magz Related When She Recently
Cleaned Up A Post Where
Insults To Other Member’s
Intelligence Were Related other
Than that The Moderators
Will Clarify it i Guess Yes
Since This is a Support Site
For Folks on The Autism
Spectrum who Have Been
Bullied Like That All Their
Life. You are The only Member
Here i Know of Who
Insists they Have The
Right to Insult Intelligence
And The Mental Health of
Other Members…

If That’s Allowed Here
i may Move to More
Civil Environments…


Wow, it would be such a shame to be deprived of your concise and insightful posts.

Again though, maybe read those rules carefully and then read my posts closely, and notice that I'm scrupulously attacking the content of your posts and not you personally, which is completely within the rules here, particularly in PPR and particularly in a thread in which I'm the OP and have certain privileges concerning the tone and content. This might be a support site, but this is the politics section, you can't really claim that you just stumbled in here for emotional support for your poorly thought out opinions, particularly when your own posts are far from innocent underneath the Christmas tree patterns and odd sentence structures.


Rules From Alex:

2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.

Link to the Post Where Your Posts Were
Removed As You Were Insulting A
Member's "Reading Comprehension"
In the PPR Forum As Provided Below.

You Know, Alex Once Offered me a Moderator
Job As i Am Able to Keep my Cool And Stick
to the Facts and Not Make it 'Too Personal."

For What It's Worth, i Value the Expertise You Are
Able to Contribute On the Focused Areas You Are Interested in.
Just Giving You A Hand Trying to Help You Stay Out of Trouble Like "A Prodigal Son"...

Believe it or not
Ripley and Or Horatio With SMiLes;

And You Know What, if You Don't
Appreciate my Help That's Okay;

All In A Day's Play, Good Night mY FRiEnD, Sleep Tight.

https://wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=407910&start=640


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Dox47
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11 Sep 2022, 2:45 am

aghogday wrote:
Rules From Alex:

2. Personal attacks.
This includes insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect. Attacking an opinion, belief or philosophy is acceptable, but attacking the person making the comments is not.



aghogday wrote:
You Know, Alex Once Offered me a Moderator
Job As i Am Able to Keep my Cool And Stick
to the Facts and Not Make it 'Too Personal."


That would have been before the operation or whatever it was that changed your posting style? You were different then, afterwards it wasn't just that your posts were difficult to understand, which they still are, it was that the personality behind them was different, more boasting and bragging, more taunting, which combined with the difficulty of reading them in the first place made you into a poster who few wanted to engage with. You might not realize it, but I'm treating you with a certain amount of respect in that I'm not making excuses for you on account of whatever happened, I'm treating you like any poster who comes at me in the way you have, everyone gets a fair shake with me.


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13 Sep 2022, 7:49 am

 ! Cornflake wrote:
Unlocked, on the proviso that squabbling and attacks end immediately.


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Matrix Glitch
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13 Sep 2022, 10:49 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
@aghigday, while I dislike seeing any two members tangle, and understand if persistence from another poster feels aggressive, you should know that the reason I pretty much never quote or debate you is because I rarely read your posts. The formatting alienates me; it requires extra effort to read. I am probably not the only one. I dislike that I find it necessary to do so, but it is what it is. Point being, lack of comment is not necessarily endorsement of content or approach.

I have some difficulty reading though normally formatted material. So there's no way I'm going to try getting though something formatted that way. If someone needs to be that unique, that's up to them. But they're going to have to live with most people who actually post in these threads scrolling right past those kinds of posts like I do.



aghogday
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13 Sep 2022, 11:29 am

Matrix Glitch wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
@aghigday, while I dislike seeing any two members tangle, and understand if persistence from another poster feels aggressive, you should know that the reason I pretty much never quote or debate you is because I rarely read your posts. The formatting alienates me; it requires extra effort to read. I am probably not the only one. I dislike that I find it necessary to do so, but it is what it is. Point being, lack of comment is not necessarily endorsement of content or approach.

I have some difficulty reading though normally formatted material. So there's no way I'm going to try getting though something formatted that way. If someone needs to be that unique, that's up to them. But they're going to have to live with most people who actually post in these threads scrolling right past those kinds of posts like I do.


i've Never Asked Anyone To Read What i Write Here.

And When i Wrote So-Called 'Normal,' Very Rarely Did
i Receive Any Social Reciprocal Communication Then.

Matter of Fact, i've Received Kinder Comments Now Than then.

Go Figure, i'm Autistic, i'm Different, And i Like Being me;

If We Can And Will, Let's Let the Folks Who Are Transgender

Have the Same Freedom and Sure; Yes, At Best When Someone

Says They Are A Woman And Or A Man, Let's Not Question Their Identity.

It's A Best Thing We Can And Will Do For Others; Just Let Them Be Them And
Free As Long As They are Not Harming Others; Every Transgender Person i've

Come Across in Life

Are The Kindest People

i've Ever Met or Perhaps

They Aren't Used to People
Being Kind to Them; As i Hold
No Exclusions to Do That in Life;

Nor Do i Expect Others to Do That For me;

Works for me at Least, More We 'See'; More We Grow;

Okay, Please Let's Get Back More on Topic, i Really Do Not Come Here For 'Personal Attention.'

We May All Be Civil to Each Other, if We Play By The Rules; Typically, i Follow 'the Community Rules' When Participating.


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Mona Pereth
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13 Sep 2022, 1:25 pm

Back on page 2 of this thread:

Mona Pereth wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
So in terms of “original offence”:

- the aggressive objection to “people who menstruate” was weird. It’s like if someone said “religious people should get their holy days off work” and she responded “there used to be a word for religious people… Chrystens? Kristans? Help me out here.”

It seems to me that some (though not all) of the recent gender-related language changes are actually going to be a very difficult issue to resolve.

Traditional misogyny has often involved reducing women to body parts, e.g. "piece of ass." To some women, "people with vulvas" sounds like more of the same. Even though the intent is very different, I think it's understandable why some women, especially some women who have experienced violent sexual assault, would have a strong emotional reaction against that kind of terminology.


I just now found that some of these language issues may be starting to get resolved, hopefully.

According to The Times Published Some Transphobic BS Over the Weekend by James Factora, Them, July 5, 2022:

Quote:
Paul’s critique of clunky language like “menstruators” and “bodies with vaginas” is fair; as someone to whom both of those labels applied at one point, I find both terms cringeworthy and alienating, as do most other trans people. Even the Trans Journalists Association shuns such language in its style guide, advocating instead for general terms like “patients,” “people,” and “people seeking abortions.”

Here is a relevant Twitter thread from the Trans Journalists Association, and here is TJA Best Practices for Trans-Inclusive Language in Abortion Coverage (PDF).

(If anyone wants to discuss or debate the question of why a lot of cis women -- and, apparently, trans people too -- find terms like "people with vulvas" to be objectifying or alienating in the first place, let's discuss this in the separate thread Sexual objectification of women, & why it's oppressive.)


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DW_a_mom
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13 Sep 2022, 8:04 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Back on page 2 of this thread:

Mona Pereth wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
So in terms of “original offence”:

- the aggressive objection to “people who menstruate” was weird. It’s like if someone said “religious people should get their holy days off work” and she responded “there used to be a word for religious people… Chrystens? Kristans? Help me out here.”

It seems to me that some (though not all) of the recent gender-related language changes are actually going to be a very difficult issue to resolve.

Traditional misogyny has often involved reducing women to body parts, e.g. "piece of ass." To some women, "people with vulvas" sounds like more of the same. Even though the intent is very different, I think it's understandable why some women, especially some women who have experienced violent sexual assault, would have a strong emotional reaction against that kind of terminology.


I just now found that some of these language issues may be starting to get resolved, hopefully.

According to The Times Published Some Transphobic BS Over the Weekend by James Factora, Them, July 5, 2022:

Quote:
Paul’s critique of clunky language like “menstruators” and “bodies with vaginas” is fair; as someone to whom both of those labels applied at one point, I find both terms cringeworthy and alienating, as do most other trans people. Even the Trans Journalists Association shuns such language in its style guide, advocating instead for general terms like “patients,” “people,” and “people seeking abortions.”

Here is a relevant Twitter thread from the Trans Journalists Association, and here is TJA Best Practices for Trans-Inclusive Language in Abortion Coverage (PDF).

(If anyone wants to discuss or debate the question of why a lot of cis women -- and, apparently, trans people too -- find terms like "people with vulvas" to be objectifying or alienating in the first place, let's discuss this in the separate thread Sexual objectification of women, & why it's oppressive.)


Thank you for finding that guidance. The language use it suggests makes a lot of sense, and shouldn’t require anyone to do backflips to get it right.

Ultimately language convenience is usually going to win out. And those suggestions are convenient.


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Mona Pereth
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15 Sep 2022, 5:51 am

Here is an article J.K. Rowling Doubles Down on Transphobia in International Women’s Day Twitter Rant by Samantha Bergeson, Mar 8, 2022, about J.K. Rowling's opposition to a proposed bill that would make it easier for trans people in Scotland to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate.

If this bill were to pass, there would still be a process involved, but a less difficult one, and there would still be a waiting period, but a shorter one.

Here is the relevant Twitter thread.


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15 Sep 2022, 1:40 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Follow up question; has anyone here actually read any of Rowling's mystery novels? I'm reading the first one, it's not bad, I wouldn't have guessed it was her by the writing style alone, nor have I detected anything remotely objectionable about it so far.

The first three are generally regarded as good, if otherwise unremarkable. I knew someone who read The Cuckoo's Calling before the author was revealed, and she liked it well enough.

Book 4 is when the trans stuff starts creeping in (and that came out before the big fuss last summer). Don't know anyone who has read them other than specifically to pick that stuff out.



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15 Sep 2022, 8:39 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
The first three are generally regarded as good, if otherwise unremarkable. I knew someone who read The Cuckoo's Calling before the author was revealed, and she liked it well enough.

Book 4 is when the trans stuff starts creeping in (and that came out before the big fuss last summer). Don't know anyone who has read them other than specifically to pick that stuff out.


I'm now halfway through book 3 (getting darker and edgier for sure compared to the previous two), they're entirely conventional detective novels, if well written ones as obviously Rowling can tell a story. I actually don't know why I was skeptical of these in the first place, I enjoyed the HP books, and most of those are basically structured like mystery novels when you actually look at how they're put together, with the clues and hints leading up to the big reveal at the end. The close reading is pretty funny when you think about it, people buying up rather lengthy books that a billionaire YA author puts out under a pen name in order to analyze them for whiffs of her politics so they can complain about her on Twitter, it's kind of pathetic aside from the degree to which the mainstream media has been caught up in it, NPR actually ran a story with the "critics say..." framing, when the "critics" in question were literally Twitter randos.


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CosmicFerrets
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16 Sep 2022, 4:19 am

I initially thought her little essay didn't seem terribly unreasonable. Like, okay, consenting adults should be able to transition and live in peace, people should receive whatever medical attention is appropriate which may not necessarily be transitioning. Some kids do 'try on' gender nonconformity/diversity as a social thing and it's important that that can be distinguished from children who are truly suffering from dysphoria. None of those points seemed unreasonable.

However, when I viewed her twitter, it was full of batshit stuff generalising all transgender persons - especially MtF trans women - as pedos and criminals. Supporting people who call transgender people outright slurs. That is not something I can respect or take seriously. There's no intelligence or reasoning behind it. It's, like, 'ew, transgender icky'.

To me it reminded me of many Catholics I grew up with, who would say they 'love' gay people as neighbours in Christ, that they 'take people as they are', etc... but would then go unhinged rants about homosexual pedophiles, who can 'get away with it because they're gay', and who 'are always messed in the head'. People would say they 'love' gay people, but they would never actually talk about actual gay people in anything other than a negative light.

As a teenager it f*cked me up. When all you hear and know about gay people is that they end up as degenerates, criminals, pedos, or alone and mentally ill, it truly makes you think there is no path for happiness and normal happy relationships the way heterosexuals have. Things are great for me now but it really is terrible to experience. I imagine it would be similar for transgender persons.

So. What she says she believes, and says she supports, is one thing, and is not particularly horrific. But what she actually does, and the sentiments she actually expresses outside of formalised, prepared letters or statements, are really not worth respecting in my view.



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16 Sep 2022, 7:41 am

CosmicFerrets wrote:
However, when I viewed her twitter, it was full of batshit stuff generalising all transgender persons - especially MtF trans women - as pedos and criminals. Supporting people who call transgender people outright slurs. That is not something I can respect or take seriously. There's no intelligence or reasoning behind it. It's, like, 'ew, transgender icky'.


Cite?


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16 Sep 2022, 5:30 pm

I don't have time to go digging through all her tweets, but here's a recent tweet of hers supporting the LGB Alliance, which appears to be a British group of lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals who dislike trans people.


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17 Sep 2022, 8:08 am

Dox47 wrote:
CosmicFerrets wrote:
However, when I viewed her twitter, it was full of batshit stuff generalising all transgender persons - especially MtF trans women - as pedos and criminals. Supporting people who call transgender people outright slurs. That is not something I can respect or take seriously. There's no intelligence or reasoning behind it. It's, like, 'ew, transgender icky'.


Cite?

What are you asking me to do?
Rowling, J.K. (2021) 'J.K Rowling's Twitter Account', Twitter.

I said it was on her twitter, not an article. Here is the link to her account: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/

If you're looking for a specific tweet or something, I mean, you can just go on her twitter account and read it. Right now I've blocked twitter on my computer for the next several days so I'm not going to be digging up specific tweets. But there was plenty of stuff right there when I viewed it.



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18 Sep 2022, 1:41 am

Here is a tweet, not by J.K. Rowling herself but retweeted by her, promoting this article, which seems to me rather generally anti-trans.


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Dox47
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18 Sep 2022, 8:04 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
Here is a tweet, not by J.K. Rowling herself but retweeted by her, promoting this article, which seems to me rather generally anti-trans.


How is it anti trans?


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