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naturalplastic
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15 Sep 2022, 11:16 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:
IOW "All white people are the Devil!" :evil:


I would ask why can't we all just get along but apparently there was a guy who got brutally beatened up by the police back in the 1990's for asking that exact same question. :shrug:


He was brutally beaten BEFORE he made the plea. By the police.
The city LA erupted in riots in response to him being beaten up by the police...which prompted him (Rodney King) to make the plea "cant we all get along?" to calm the rioters and everyone down.



Mona Pereth
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15 Sep 2022, 11:38 pm

Dox47 wrote:
I do, it's called wokeness.

No, "wokeness" is not the name of a specific political belief or theory. "Woke" is more a value judgment than an actual name of anything. Furthermore, its meaning has rapidly evolved.

For example, the Cambridge Dictionary defines "wokeness" as "a state of being aware, especially of social problems such as racism and inequality."

Note that this definition is very vague and already out-of-date. It says nothing at all about the specific beliefs, observations, or methodology that this "state of being aware" consists of. Nor does it say anything at all about the sarcastic use of the term by right wingers and some centrists.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 16 Sep 2022, 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dox47
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15 Sep 2022, 11:50 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
No, "wokeness" is not the name of a specific political belief or theory. "Woke" is more a value judgment than an actual name of anything. Furthermore, its meaning has rapidly evolved.

For example, the Cambridge Dictionary defines "wokeness" as "a state of being aware, especially of social problems such as racism and inequality."

Note that this definition is very non-specific and already out-of-date. It says nothing at all about the specific beliefs, observations, or methodology that this "state of being aware" consists of. Nor does it say anything at all about the sarcastic use of the term by right wingers and some centrists.


Repeating something doesn't make it true, normies who aren't internet quibblers universally know what I mean when I use the term, I suspect the problem is on your end, and that it's deliberate, as making it ponderous to discuss makes it more difficult to criticize. Again, it's very well defined, multiple posters have repeatedly done it across numerous threads in the last few months alone.


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16 Sep 2022, 2:30 am

Dox47 wrote:
Repeating something doesn't make it true, normies who aren't internet quibblers universally know what I mean when I use the term,

Perhaps you have in mind a shared caricature? I certainly wouldn't expect the average "normie" to be very knowledgeable about any non-"normie" subculture.


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16 Sep 2022, 7:43 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
I certainly wouldn't expect the average "normie" to be very knowledgeable about any non-"normie" subculture.


And yet, again, they know who I mean when I use the term, almost as if your projections onto them don't actually reflect reality.


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16 Sep 2022, 9:21 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
I do, it's called wokeness.

No, "wokeness" is not the name of a specific political belief or theory. "Woke" is more a value judgment than an actual name of anything. Furthermore, its meaning has rapidly evolved.

For example, the Cambridge Dictionary defines "wokeness" as "a state of being aware, especially of social problems such as racism and inequality."

Note that this definition is very vague and already out-of-date. It says nothing at all about the specific beliefs, observations, or methodology that this "state of being aware" consists of. Nor does it say anything at all about the sarcastic use of the term by right wingers and some centrists.

“Out of date” is the key here.

Not for the “own the libs” type for whom any Democrat or Progressive is insulted as “woke” but for serious critics of the phenomenon of all political stripes the definition of woke circa 2022 is along the lines of what I wrote.

Mona Pereth wrote:
Perhaps you have in mind a shared caricature? I certainly wouldn't expect the average "normie" to be very knowledgeable about any non-"normie" subculture.

“SJW” was a caricature, “Woke” is a world view.

When 60+ percent of people tell pollsters they are afraid to say what they really mean, when Human Resources departments at influential companies, and elite schools where the countries future leadership is being educated are being influenced by Kendi and DeAngelo we are dealing with a lot more then a subculture.


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16 Sep 2022, 1:55 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
“SJW” was a caricature, “Woke” is a world view.

When 60+ percent of people tell pollsters they are afraid to say what they really mean, when Human Resources departments at influential companies, and elite schools where the countries future leadership is being educated are being influenced by Kendi and DeAngelo we are dealing with a lot more then a subculture.

I don't think most "Human Resources departments at influential companies" are true believers in any "worldview" other than maximizing their profits.

To that end, corporations need to avoid lawsuits as much as possible. As far as I can tell, the main purpose of "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" (DEI) initiatives is to avoid lawsuits. A secondary purpose may be to lower their labor costs.

Obviously, though, if the result is to frighten a lot of their employees, that's not good for business either, and may result in some lawsuits too. So, corporations have to figure out how to strike the right balance, which is not easy.

See Why Diversity Programs Fail: And what works better by Frank Dobbin and Alexandra Kalev, Harvard Business Review, July–August 2016. Note how this article (published by one of those "elite schools where the country's future leadership is being educated") starts off by talking about the main actual reason why big corporations care about this sort of thing: fear of lawsuits.

Googling "workplace DEI training difficult" brings up a lot of articles about the question of how corporations can do DEI training without alienating employees.


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16 Sep 2022, 3:10 pm

Dox47 wrote:
And yet, again, they know who I mean when I use the term, almost as if your projections onto them don't actually reflect reality.

One could respond similarly to your own frequent objections to what you see as misrepresentation and mislabeling of right wingers.

What is the relevant difference?


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16 Sep 2022, 5:23 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
One could respond similarly to your own frequent objections to what you see as misrepresentation and mislabeling of right wingers.

What is the relevant difference?


Well, in order to answer that question, I'm going to need examples of what you're referring to, preferably with links for context.


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16 Sep 2022, 6:56 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Well, in order to answer that question, I'm going to need examples of what you're referring to, preferably with links for context.

I don't have time right now to go poking around for examples. So I guess I'll just keep this question in mind for the next time I see you make a complaint of this kind.


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16 Sep 2022, 10:10 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
“SJW” was a caricature, “Woke” is a world view.

When 60+ percent of people tell pollsters they are afraid to say what they really mean, when Human Resources departments at influential companies, and elite schools where the countries future leadership is being educated are being influenced by Kendi and DeAngelo we are dealing with a lot more then a subculture.

I don't think most "Human Resources departments at influential companies" are true believers in any "worldview" other than maximizing their profits.

To that end, corporations need to avoid lawsuits as much as possible. As far as I can tell, the main purpose of "Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion" (DEI) initiatives is to avoid lawsuits. A secondary purpose may be to lower their labor costs.

Obviously, though, if the result is to frighten a lot of their employees, that's not good for business either, and may result in some lawsuits too. So, corporations have to figure out how to strike the right balance, which is not easy.

See Why Diversity Programs Fail: And what works better by Frank Dobbin and Alexandra Kalev, Harvard Business Review, July–August 2016. Note how this article (published by one of those "elite schools where the country's future leadership is being educated") starts off by talking about the main actual reason why big corporations care about this sort of thing: fear of lawsuits.

Googling "workplace DEI training difficult" brings up a lot of articles about the question of how corporations can do DEI training without alienating employees.

Does it make a difference if the don't believe it if they practice it?


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