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Conscripts with anxiety disorders

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dktekno
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09 Aug 2007, 7:01 am

Do you think people with anxiety disorders, such as OCD, generalized anxiety disorder, or a tendency to get panic attacks, should be enlisted against their will, in the military?

The following answer to that question is NOT mine, I am against it, but please consider it anyway:

Quote:
People who claim to suffer from "anxiety disorders" or "depression" are just p*****s. They are just lazy cowards. Draft them anyway. If they seem to be dangerous, just don't give them a weapon, but they must go through the training (without weapon). If they are afraid of jumping from high places, push them out from the high places, and then imprison them and punish them for disobedience and cowardice.



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09 Aug 2007, 7:11 am

No, that's the most f*****g stupid thing I've ever read.



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09 Aug 2007, 7:11 am

dktekno wrote:
Do you think people with anxiety disorders, such as OCD, generalized anxiety disorder, or a tendency to get panic attacks, should be enlisted against their will, in the military?

The following answer to that question is NOT mine, I am against it, but please consider it anyway:

Quote:
People who claim to suffer from "anxiety disorders" or "depression" are just p*****s. They are just lazy cowards. Draft them anyway. If they seem to be dangerous, just don't give them a weapon, but they must go through the training (without weapon). If they are afraid of jumping from high places, push them out from the high places, and then imprison them and punish them for disobedience and cowardice.


A person with such a condition and is enlisted against their will into the military is likely as not to be a danger to himself and others, especially when ordure starts to fly. That is a very practical reason for them not to be conscripted. There is, of course, the obvious compassionate grounds.


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09 Aug 2007, 7:13 am

Sopho wrote:
No, that's the most f***ing stupid thing I've ever read.


Of course. But suggest a counter-argument Sopho.


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09 Aug 2007, 7:15 am

Quatermass wrote:
Sopho wrote:
No, that's the most f***ing stupid thing I've ever read.


Of course. But suggest a counter-argument Sopho.

Because I shouldn't be conscripted into the sodding army if I don't want to be. I'm not a p****.



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09 Aug 2007, 7:23 am

Sopho wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Sopho wrote:
No, that's the most f***ing stupid thing I've ever read.


Of course. But suggest a counter-argument Sopho.

Because I shouldn't be conscripted into the sodding army if I don't want to be. I'm not a p****.


Do you have OCD or panic attacks or such? (And in actual well-thought out arguments, 'sodding' tends to mark you down)

Don't get me wrong, I'd not want conscription, mostly on moral, fitness (physical and mental) and necrophobic grounds.


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09 Aug 2007, 7:26 am

I didn't think this really needed a well-thought out response, considering what they were suggesting.
And I have social anxiety disorder, probably OCD and apparently depression, which was also mentioned in the quote.



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09 Aug 2007, 7:32 am

Sopho wrote:
I didn't think this really needed a well-thought out response, considering what they were suggesting.
And I have social anxiety disorder, probably OCD and apparently depression, which was also mentioned in the quote.


Yes, but it helps to show that you have the high ground, intellectually and morally, at least. Yo, dktekno? Do you know whether this idiot who posted this crap actually is in the armed forces? And if he is only a weekend soldier (National Guard for the USA, Territorial Army in the UK and Army Reserve here in Australia) or not even one, then tell him futue te ipsum.


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dktekno
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09 Aug 2007, 8:53 am

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Yo, dktekno? Do you know whether this idiot who posted this crap actually is in the armed forces? And if he is only a weekend soldier (National Guard for the USA, Territorial Army in the UK and Army Reserve here in Australia) or not even one, then tell him futue te ipsum.


He is an extreme right winger. Of course he has served his time in the military, and he is very influential in politics. He believe in a strong state, is against freedom of speech, and he justifies censorship by saying that free speech can undermine the authority of the leader of the nation, thus creating instability.

He is not a racist or nazi. But he do believe in the survival of the fittest and that the government should favor the strong and let the weak become weaker, unless the government can turn the weak people into strong people.



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09 Aug 2007, 8:54 am

...et tuum caballum

Didn't know we were permitted to be so vulgar in foreign languages here. :)

Obviously any branch of armed forces, in any country, has the moral obligation to look after the safety of its men and women. Individuals who are statistically (or historically) likely to break down or despair under stress may pose a danger to self or others, as has already been noted. They also run the risk of jeopardizing any given operation.

I know just a few months ago there was a young American soldier in the news who had volunteered for the armed forces, after a long history of depression and violence, and ended up responsible for some gruesome murders while serving in Iraq (if memory serves me correctly). I wouldn't go so far as to say those with depression should be barred from the military altogether, but all effort should be made to identify the more unstable, chronic, and extreme cases, and it certainly should be an acceptable excuse (with proper prior documentation to back it up).

But I'm not sure that such a ridiculous argument deserves an intelligent rebuttal. And fairly certain that the sort of person capable of producing such rubbish isn't going to pay attention to reason.



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09 Aug 2007, 9:01 am

dktekno wrote:
He is an extreme right winger. Of course he has served his time in the military,


That, I'll believe....

Quote:
... and he is very influential in politics.


But this is very frightening. In what capacity is he so influential?

Quote:
He believe in a strong state, is against freedom of speech, and he justifies censorship by saying that free speech can undermine the authority of the leader of the nation, thus creating instability.


Funny how it seems that people increasingly manage to select the ugliest traits two traditionally opposite ideologies and wrap them into a single package. But I suppose membership in those sorts of groups has been ebbing and flowing since civilization began.

Quote:
He is not a racist or nazi. But he do believe in the survival of the fittest and that the government should favor the strong and let the weak become weaker, unless the government can turn the weak people into strong people.


But even from a utilitarian standpoint, his idea is not practical. The "weak" pose a danger to the "strong" when they're all set loose with guns and expected to carry out a complex operation.

If he truly believes in survival of the fittest, he should be confident that he needn't intervene in order to make it take place, hmmm?



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09 Aug 2007, 5:47 pm

dktekno wrote:
He is an extreme right winger. Of course he has served his time in the military, and he is very influential in politics. He believe in a strong state, is against freedom of speech, and he justifies censorship by saying that free speech can undermine the authority of the leader of the nation, thus creating instability.

He is not a racist or nazi. But he do believe in the survival of the fittest and that the government should favor the strong and let the weak become weaker, unless the government can turn the weak people into strong people.


Social Darwinism. Feh.

Freedom of speech isn't necessarily a complete definition, but his excuse (to prevent the undermining of the authority of the leader of the nation) is pathetic.

gwenevyn wrote:
...et tuum caballum

Didn't know we were permitted to be so vulgar in foreign languages here. :)


I find it is safe in Latin. So that's how you say 'and the horse you rode in on'. Thanks gwenevyn. :D Futue te ipsum, et tuum caballum. :lol:

gwenevyn wrote:
Obviously any branch of armed forces, in any country, has the moral obligation to look after the safety of its men and women. Individuals who are statistically (or historically) likely to break down or despair under stress may pose a danger to self or others, as has already been noted. They also run the risk of jeopardizing any given operation.

I know just a few months ago there was a young American soldier in the news who had volunteered for the armed forces, after a long history of depression and violence, and ended up responsible for some gruesome murders while serving in Iraq (if memory serves me correctly). I wouldn't go so far as to say those with depression should be barred from the military altogether, but all effort should be made to identify the more unstable, chronic, and extreme cases, and it certainly should be an acceptable excuse (with proper prior documentation to back it up).

But I'm not sure that such a ridiculous argument deserves an intelligent rebuttal. And fairly certain that the sort of person capable of producing such rubbish isn't going to pay attention to reason.


Not if he's already a polly, or a influential backer. (Polly is Aussie slang for Politician) Don't they do psych evaluations for the US Army now? Or has it gone out the window with the latest recruitment drive?


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gwenevyn
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09 Aug 2007, 7:12 pm

Quatermass wrote:

Freedom of speech isn't necessarily a complete definition...


Isn't that the truth!


Quatermass wrote:
Thanks gwenevyn. :D Futue te ipsum, et tuum caballum. :lol:


Welcome! :)

... you might soften up the offer and leave my poor horse out of it. :P

Quatermass wrote:
Not if he's already a polly, or a influential backer. (Polly is Aussie slang for Politician) Don't they do psych evaluations for the US Army now? Or has it gone out the window with the latest recruitment drive?


I'm curious who it might be.

And I'm not entirely certain, regarding the psych evaluations. I don't keep close tabs on those requirements, as I do not personally know anybody in the military. My best guess is that they still require them. In the wake of the sorts of abuses that have had publicity over the past couple of years, it would have been a bad PR move to drop the regulation.



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09 Aug 2007, 7:19 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:

Freedom of speech isn't necessarily a complete definition...


Isn't that the truth!


Terry Pratchett got it right when he said in Going Postal that the greatest freedom of all is the freedom to take the consequences, which is the freedom upon which all others are based.


gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Thanks gwenevyn. :D Futue te ipsum, et tuum caballum. :lol:


Welcome! :)

... you might soften up the offer and leave my poor horse out of it. :P


Hmm. I am certainly not into equestrophilia....

But I sooooo love expletives in a foreign (and in the case of Latin, nearly dead) language. :twisted:



gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Not if he's already a polly, or a influential backer. (Polly is Aussie slang for Politician) Don't they do psych evaluations for the US Army now? Or has it gone out the window with the latest recruitment drive?


I'm curious who it might be.

And I'm not entirely certain, regarding the psych evaluations. I don't keep close tabs on those requirements, as I do not personally know anybody in the military. My best guess is that they still require them. In the wake of the sorts of abuses that have had publicity over the past couple of years, it would have been a bad PR move to drop the regulation.


Of course.


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gwenevyn
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09 Aug 2007, 7:29 pm

Quatermass wrote:
Terry Pratchett got it right when he said in Going Postal that the greatest freedom of all is the freedom to take the consequences, which is the freedom upon which all others are based.


Have you quoted that before? Sounds familiar. And true, of course.

I just finished The Color of Magic today during downtime at work. It was so good. It made me laugh more than Hitchhiker's Guide.

Quote:
Hmm. I am certainly not into equestrophilia....

But I sooooo love expletives in a foreign (and in the case of Latin, nearly dead) language. :twisted:


Oh, yeah. I made sure to learn them all (in Spanish) before I went off to Central America, so I'd know if anybody ever insulted me. But besides "gringa", nobody ever did.

But Latin's more useful. Both scholarly and crude at once. Sort of like Carmina Burana.

Anyhow, dktekno, do give us a bit more info. Or I'll steal your thread.



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09 Aug 2007, 7:50 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Terry Pratchett got it right when he said in Going Postal that the greatest freedom of all is the freedom to take the consequences, which is the freedom upon which all others are based.


Have you quoted that before? Sounds familiar. And true, of course.

I just finished The Color of Magic today during downtime at work. It was so good. It made me laugh more than Hitchhiker's Guide.



Yeah, sorry for the thread hijack, dktekno.

Yes, I have quoted it about a dozen times before, gwenevyn. And believe it or not, Colour of Magic is actually one of the worst of the Discworld series. It sets things up, but is lesser than most later Discworld novels. If you like, I'll PM recommendations of my favourite Discworld novels.


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