Calfornia...Has it been destroyed by left-wing polices?

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auntblabby
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16 Nov 2022, 4:46 am

biggest problem with amuuurica is we lack finesse, we go from one extreme to the other.



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 4:48 am

Fnord wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
So many people on here that believe everything conservative or right-wing is stupid or evil.
So?  Here is what is wrong with Conservatism:

Conservative and Christian media organizations along with American conservative figures typically support what they consider Christian values, i.e.:

• A punitive and literal interpretation of the Christian Bible that takes priority over secular law.
• American exceptionalism (e.g., American is the greatest country, and all other countries should follow America's rules.)
• Capital punishment
• Defense of American culture from perceived (yet unreal) threats, foreign and domestic.
• Moral absolutism (black-and-white morality, e.g., something is either 'good' or 'evil'.)
• Traditional family values (i.e., Male father, female mother, and as many children as can be born)
• Voting as a privilege, not a right.

Conservative and Christian media organizations along with American conservative figures typically oppose what they consider "sinful" values, i.e.:

• Abortion, even in cases of rape, incest, or fetal defect.
• Euthanasia, even when the victim of a terminal illness requests it.
• Moral relativism and situational ethics (e.g., something may be 'good' in one context, 'evil' in another, and 'irrelevant' in still another.)
• Same-sex marriage
• Science (e.g.: epidemiology, climate science, reproduction, and evolution.)
• Social welfare programs (remember "Obamacare"?)
• Voting as an inalienable right for every citizen, 18 and older

Conservatism, especially of the Trumpian variety, is anathema to America's promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for all.


Let me make the point that Amerrian conservatism is not the same as other political forms of conservatism in other countries.
Religion seems to dominate, which isn't the case elsewhere, as is the case in Australia, which is more secular.


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And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

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Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
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Fnord
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16 Nov 2022, 7:47 am

You might be a Right-Wing Conservative if...

• A charity asking you for $22.00 a month to keep a child in a third-world country healthy seems like a real imposition, yet you have no problems spending hundreds of dollars a year to keep the grass in your lawn healthy.

• After voting against all civil rights legislation, you wonder why minorities do not vote for Republican candidates and issues.

• Anyone who disagrees with you on any topic is no-good leftist liberal, and probably not a good Christian, either.

• Between choosing to send other people's kids off to university or off to a war, you choose the latter.

• Between choosing to send your kids off to university or off to a war, you choose the former.

• It does not matter what you blame Liberals for, as long as they get all the blame.

• The less you know about a subject, the stronger your opinions are concerning it.

• You are against abortion but do not give a damn about those babies once they are born.

• You believe that abortion is murder, but that executing convicted criminals is not.

• You believe that abortion is murder, but that dropping smartbombs on civilian communities is not.


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MaxE
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16 Nov 2022, 12:57 pm

Fnord wrote:
• After voting against all civil rights legislation, you wonder why minorities do not vote for Republican candidates and issues.

I don't mean this as a rebuttal but there's a real problem (to me as a Democrat) that a lot of minorities ARE switching to the Republican Party. Some possible reasons are an apparent lack of concern for needs of small business owners as well as a hard-core line on abortion rights which makes many minority group members uncomfortable due to their personal beliefs.


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16 Nov 2022, 12:57 pm

You might be right wing if you believe children are having their bodies mutated and taking hormones at 5 years old.

You might be right wing if you are okay with street camping here in Portland but you don't want to provide vacant lots for them and other vacant buildings for shelter.

You believe in election fraud.

You support All lives Matter.

You think ANTIFA and BLM are terrorist groups.

You think ANTIFA started all the wild fires and were at the Capital Hill riot posing as trump supporters.

You are against birth control and you don't care about women who are on their periods and get painful cramps to a point they can't get out of bed. For me, I can get nausea, back pain and leg pain for my period which is why I have an IUD.


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DeathFlowerKing
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16 Nov 2022, 2:09 pm

MaxE wrote:
Fnord wrote:
• After voting against all civil rights legislation, you wonder why minorities do not vote for Republican candidates and issues.

I don't mean this as a rebuttal but there's a real problem (to me as a Democrat) that a lot of minorities ARE switching to the Republican Party. Some possible reasons are an apparent lack of concern for needs of small business owners as well as a hard-core line on abortion rights which makes many minority group members uncomfortable due to their personal beliefs.


Also as someone with Hispanic friends I can also tell you that many Hispanic voters in the US aren't exactly sold on the whole "Socialist" thing that some Democrats are pushing for. They came to this country to escape that sort of thing.



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16 Nov 2022, 10:07 pm

Bataar wrote:
Fnord wrote:
stratozyck wrote:
You set up a nice story that confirms your view point - the real problem is not brain surgeons and lawnmower operators, its the rich capital owners who are buying up land as investment vehicles that are driving up the rent and housing costs for the rest of us. Lawnmower operators used to get paid more but because the middle class is getting squeezed by health care and housing costs, they can afford less so their wages aren't as high as they could be.
Instead of criticism (and assuming to know what I am thinking) try coming up with a solution, like DW_a_mom did:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Basic needs met with enough freedom for innovation to thrive.
Blitz identified this as the Scandinavian Model, which seems to work well for them.

And Blabs, it is not the Americans who nix the plan (many of us would gladly participate); it is the wealthy, conservative lawmakers who shoot down every effort to provide a safety net for those who cannot provide one for themselves.  Remember "Obamacare"?

Obama care wasn't a safety net. It was a power grab by the government to force people to pay for services they didn't want or need that resulted in many people having to pay more than they were paying previously.


I disagree. The ACA (otherwise known as Obamacare) was an attempt to fix a giant hole in our social fabric and economy. Do you have any idea how many people told me over the years that they couldn't start their own business, or do contract work, because they wouldn't be able to get individual health insurance on the open market, away from an employer sponsored plan? Health insurance was my single biggest worry when I started my own business, and the fear of losing it is so ingrained in me that I often forget the ACA protections are now there. Americans shouldn't have to live in fear of being unable to access our healthcare system, or of going bankrupt if they do. The purchase mandate was an attempt to make the dollars work, and obviously that side was unpopular, but that was far from being what it was really about.

The ACA fundamentally changed how healthcare is delivered in the USA. Partly for better, partly for worse. We couldn't go backwards even if we wanted to, although it would be good to get some of the complaint areas fixed.

FYI, California picked up the dropped federal mandate and now has it at the state level. I have mixed feelings about that, but it was an interesting turn.


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DW_a_mom
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16 Nov 2022, 10:11 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
So many people on here that believe everything conservative or right-wing is stupid or evil.


The opposite abounds outside of here, however.

Basically, we've all lost the ability to listen to each other and see the good parts of differing opinions.

Reality is that we need the opposing viewpoints in a pull against each other to find what actually works, and what works is a moving target, varying by where exactly we are in economic and social cycles. My frustration is how many people refuse to see that.


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16 Nov 2022, 11:07 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
So many people on here that believe everything conservative or right-wing is stupid or evil.


The opposite abounds outside of here, however.

Basically, we've all lost the ability to listen to each other and see the good parts of differing opinions.

Reality is that we need the opposing viewpoints in a pull against each other to find what actually works, and what works is a moving target, varying by where exactly we are in economic and social cycles. My frustration is how many people refuse to see that.


Today's solution is tomorrow's problem.

Of course, today's solution is what lets us get to tomorrow in the first place.



Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 11:12 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if right wing policies aim to keep working class folks like myself from obtaining affordable healthcare, and all the righties can say to me [with a snicker] is "get rich or die trying!" - i'd have to conclude that at the very least there is some malice aforethought going on there.


The left wing is in government now, and yet it doesn't seem to be doing a good job regarding health care in Amerria.

that is because there are not enough democrats in the congress to get over institutional blocks to reform. we long have been hamstrung by divided gov't or outright fascist rule.


My point is still valid, IMO.
The Democrat's failure to implement change has to be owned by them.

From memory, 2 of the Democratic representatives have conservative leanings.
You can't blame the Republicans for that. ;)


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


Pepe
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16 Nov 2022, 11:31 pm

Fnord wrote:
You might be a Right-Wing Conservative if...

• A charity asking you for $22.00 a month to keep a child in a third-world country healthy seems like a real imposition, yet you have no problems spending hundreds of dollars a year to keep the grass in your lawn healthy.


I am sure you are generous with your wealth, since you have posted this, but why haven't you given more?
I say this to all Democrats who have done well in a capitalistic country like Ammeria.
Billionaire Democrats. Why is this not an oxymoron? :scratch:

Fnord wrote:
• After voting against all civil rights legislation, you wonder why minorities do not vote for Republican candidates and issues.


This is not a binary.
There are some minority groups who do prefer the Republican political position.

Fnord wrote:
• Anyone who disagrees with you on any topic is no-good leftist liberal, and probably not a good Christian, either.


And I have personally found that hardcore leftists refuse to recognise the existence of independent centrists.
There is nonsense on both sides of the fence.
After all, it is the human psyche that is the villain, not one side of politics.
Hyperpartisanship happens across the political spectrum.

Fnord wrote:

• It does not matter what you blame Liberals for, as long as they get all the blame.


Seriously?! ! 8O
Have you forgotten the "All Republicans are fascist" wars on Wrong Planet? :mrgreen:

Fnord wrote:
• The less you know about a subject, the stronger your opinions are concerning it.


There are ignorant Dunning/Kreuger ppl on either side of the political divide. ;)
"Illusory Superiority" is a common failing of humanity. 8)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude. Hypnosis, psychosis. Tomarto, tomayto. There are *4* lights. Honey badger.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,



Also, as George Carlin said, "I have no stake in the outcome." I'll stick around for the comedy.

"A stranger is a friend gang-stalker you haven't met yet."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)
Glory to Ukraine.


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17 Nov 2022, 1:02 am

DW_a_mom wrote:
Bataar wrote:
Fnord wrote:
stratozyck wrote:
You set up a nice story that confirms your view point - the real problem is not brain surgeons and lawnmower operators, its the rich capital owners who are buying up land as investment vehicles that are driving up the rent and housing costs for the rest of us. Lawnmower operators used to get paid more but because the middle class is getting squeezed by health care and housing costs, they can afford less so their wages aren't as high as they could be.
Instead of criticism (and assuming to know what I am thinking) try coming up with a solution, like DW_a_mom did:
DW_a_mom wrote:
Basic needs met with enough freedom for innovation to thrive.
Blitz identified this as the Scandinavian Model, which seems to work well for them.

And Blabs, it is not the Americans who nix the plan (many of us would gladly participate); it is the wealthy, conservative lawmakers who shoot down every effort to provide a safety net for those who cannot provide one for themselves.  Remember "Obamacare"?

Obama care wasn't a safety net. It was a power grab by the government to force people to pay for services they didn't want or need that resulted in many people having to pay more than they were paying previously.


I disagree. The ACA (otherwise known as Obamacare) was an attempt to fix a giant hole in our social fabric and economy. Do you have any idea how many people told me over the years that they couldn't start their own business, or do contract work, because they wouldn't be able to get individual health insurance on the open market, away from an employer sponsored plan? Health insurance was my single biggest worry when I started my own business, and the fear of losing it is so ingrained in me that I often forget the ACA protections are now there. Americans shouldn't have to live in fear of being unable to access our healthcare system, or of going bankrupt if they do. The purchase mandate was an attempt to make the dollars work, and obviously that side was unpopular, but that was far from being what it was really about.

The ACA fundamentally changed how healthcare is delivered in the USA. Partly for better, partly for worse. We couldn't go backwards even if we wanted to, although it would be good to get some of the complaint areas fixed.

FYI, California picked up the dropped federal mandate and now has it at the state level. I have mixed feelings about that, but it was an interesting turn.


Only thing that pissed me off about Obama Care was forcing people to pay for it or pay a fine every year when you file taxes. People were okay with paying a fine than have health insurance and having to pick between food or health insurance. I wanted national healthcare and we got this instead. It was supposed to be affordable, but I remember saying "What is the point in affordable healthcare if it doesn't cover everything?" It's not affordable if you have to make sacrifices or change your lifestyle to afford it or pick between certain bills to have health insurance. Who wants to go paycheck to paycheck?

But this might shock people here.


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magz
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17 Nov 2022, 2:34 am

League_Girl wrote:
Only thing that pissed me off about Obama Care was forcing people to pay for it or pay a fine every year when you file taxes. People were okay with paying a fine than have health insurance and having to pick between food or health insurance. I wanted national healthcare and we got this instead. It was supposed to be affordable, but I remember saying "What is the point in affordable healthcare if it doesn't cover everything?" It's not affordable if you have to make sacrifices or change your lifestyle to afford it or pick between certain bills to have health insurance. Who wants to go paycheck to paycheck?

But this might shock people here.
Not Europeans :roll:
I mean, really, AFAIK, you're the only developed state without any form of universally affordable healthcare.


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17 Nov 2022, 4:55 am

Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Pepe wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
if right wing policies aim to keep working class folks like myself from obtaining affordable healthcare, and all the righties can say to me [with a snicker] is "get rich or die trying!" - i'd have to conclude that at the very least there is some malice aforethought going on there.


The left wing is in government now, and yet it doesn't seem to be doing a good job regarding health care in Amerria.

that is because there are not enough democrats in the congress to get over institutional blocks to reform. we long have been hamstrung by divided gov't or outright fascist rule.


My point is still valid, IMO.
The Democrat's failure to implement change has to be owned by them.

From memory, 2 of the Democratic representatives have conservative leanings.
You can't blame the Republicans for that. ;)

cinema and manchin are crypto-GOPers.



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17 Nov 2022, 5:18 am

magz wrote:
League_Girl wrote:

But this might shock people here.
Not Europeans :roll:
I mean, really, AFAIK, you're the only developed state without any form of universally affordable healthcare.



Having 'universally affordable healthcare' doesn't mean that it's any good.

Here in the UK we have that, but it's almost impossible to see a General Practitioner in many parts of the country, people wait 12-18 months to see a specialist, and there's a seven year waiting list for many surgical procedures.


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auntblabby
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17 Nov 2022, 6:09 am

DeepHour wrote:
magz wrote:
League_Girl wrote:

But this might shock people here.
Not Europeans :roll:
I mean, really, AFAIK, you're the only developed state without any form of universally affordable healthcare.



Having 'universally affordable healthcare' doesn't mean that it's any good.

Here in the UK we have that, but it's almost impossible to see a General Practitioner in many parts of the country, people wait 12-18 months to see a specialist, and there's a seven year waiting list for many surgical procedures.

respectfully, that is still better than having to worry about a lifetime of financial ruin from one of our $200,000+ surgeries, typical price for anything major like back surgery or hip replacement. the only people who can afford that are millionaires who ironically never have to pay anything of the sort as they all have free cadillac plans here.