What type of people allow a 5 year old to transition!?

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kraftiekortie
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30 Jan 2023, 8:54 am

Postmodernism is more complex than what some people think. And it has a different meaning to different people.

If there is a million or more people who do not "feel" like their birth sex, then we shouldn't discriminate against them. They are members of the human race, and should be treated as such.

Personally, even if I "felt" like a woman, I don't feel I would want to go through the surgeries, hormones, etc., that one must go through in "transitioning." It's a hard business. I can understand why one would be reluctant to go through this.

I'm fortunate that I've always felt like I was male, and still feel like I'm male. And wouldn't want somebody thinking I was a woman.

Just like a person who "feels like a woman" and has transitioned wouldn't want to be seen as being a man.

My opinion is that one should wait until after puberty finishes before transitioning. Many people go through a phase where they might want to "play the part" of another gender.



Joe90
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30 Jan 2023, 10:20 am

Respect is when I say my pets are my own children and people accept it and don't judge me against it, and are just like"aww, cute" or whatever.

Political correctness is when I demand everyone to never say the word "pets" when talking about my rats and that they (even the vet) must say "my children" instead otherwise I'll be offended and you'll be a bigoted as*hole.

That's the difference between respect and political correctness. It can sometimes mean the same thing in some contexts but in most cases they are like apples and oranges; both fruit but two different fruits.


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Quantum duck
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30 Jan 2023, 10:51 am

No, respect is calling you joe90 because that is the name you choose to be called

Disrespect is is calling you whatever I feel like calling you even if you find it rude.

“Political correctness” is what people call respect that doesn’t apply to them and they don’t want to participate in.



Canadian1911
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30 Jan 2023, 11:24 am

I'll just say, I am a cisgender male, who is mostly straight. (2 on the Kinsey Scale).

However, I have no problem treating my trans friends with the respect they deserve and addressing them how they wish, I also have no problem treating my other LGBTQ+ friends with respect as well. It is literally no skin off my back, and costs me nothing to not be a disrespectful dick.

I literally don't get people who have a problem with this, but then again I am not a bigot, unlike them, and that's the real reason, I am done playing games.



Joe90
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30 Jan 2023, 11:29 am

I thought I explained it well enough. At least NTs know what I mean.

I'm bored now.


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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 12:18 pm

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The postmodernist approach I believe it to be completely irrational and akin to a mischievous cult. It's dicieving as it tends to constantly shift the meaning of words rendering any meaningfull discourse useless, having thus a gass lighting effect to the unsuspecting person. It's hurtful to people and especially to those who believe in it's claims.
Stating the difference between "sex" and "gender" is not shifting meanings of words to render discourse useless, it's exactly the opposite: providing definitions of terms we're using to make the discourse more precise.


I said that having in mind the clarity of expression. A word that has one clearly defined meaning is more precise than a word with two meanings. Especially when you are the one who ascribes arbitrarily a new meaning to a pre existing word, like Simone de Beauvoir did with the word gender. Postmodernism is notorious for duing this, to the point that renders comunication meaningless.

Now suppose that we established that the word gender has the meaning of "cultural perception of sex". What does that mean? Is "gender" entirely free of biological predispositions? What is a gender other than female and male? How is it quantifiable in the real world?



magz
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30 Jan 2023, 12:27 pm

Developing new terms or applying new meanings to old ones is as old as language.
It does not render communication useless, it makes communication of newly developed concepts possible, so we can have disputes on them.
If you look at the history of science and philosophy, you find it literally everywhere.

How is culture quantifiable in real world?


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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 12:28 pm

Quantum duck wrote:
No, respect is calling you joe90 because that is the name you choose to be called

Disrespect is is calling you whatever I feel like calling you even if you find it rude.

“Political correctness” is what people call respect that doesn’t apply to them and they don’t want to participate in.


There we go with yet another change in language. "Political correctness" is a term that was first used by the Bolsheviks to indicate language that was in line with the communist party. I guess you must imagine what happened to those who where not politically correct. Now apparently it means respect?



magz
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30 Jan 2023, 12:32 pm

Have I missed something and we're in USSR now?
Do people end up in GULag for being rude and I missed it?


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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 12:44 pm

magz wrote:
Developing new terms or applying new meanings to old ones is as old as language.
It does not render communication useless, it makes communication of newly developed concepts possible, so we can have disputes on them.
If you look at the history of science and philosophy, you find it literally everywhere.

How is culture quantifiable in real world?


Changes in vocabulary happen but they happen spontaneously, not within the context of an ideological discourse. In this case it's not a change, it's a political idiom. It's origins are tracably ideological and its special meaning not universally accepted.

Culture is can be quantifiable in the real world. For example when we analyse the architecture of a specific region we can see that it wasn't arbitrarily developed in that specific format but that environmental factors determined the format. An example is the architecture of the Greek islands. The houses have thick walls in order to protect from heat, the windows are tiny in order to protect from the sun and the wind, they are painted white in order to reflect the sunlight and keep the interior cool during the summer. Similarly other aspects of culture can be traced in the real world.



Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 12:48 pm

magz wrote:
Have I missed something and we're in USSR now?
Do people end up in GULag for being rude and I missed it?


If we are not in the USSR , then why use the expression "Political correctness" at all? We use it as an analogy. But now it means respect apparently.

Being cancelled is not exactly like being sent to the gulags but it's a good analogy.



magz
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30 Jan 2023, 12:59 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Developing new terms or applying new meanings to old ones is as old as language.
It does not render communication useless, it makes communication of newly developed concepts possible, so we can have disputes on them.
If you look at the history of science and philosophy, you find it literally everywhere.

How is culture quantifiable in real world?


Changes in vocabulary happen but they happen spontaneously, not within the context of an ideological discourse. In this case it's not a change, it's a political idiom. It's origins are tracably ideological and its special meaning not universally accepted.
Researchers of all fields introduce various concepts all the time. Some stick, some don't, some start living their own lives, like "ecologists" for environment protection activists or countless misconceptions about relativity.
What makes this process "ideological"?

Dengashinobi wrote:
Culture is can be quantifiable in the real world. For example when we analyse the architecture of a specific region we can see that it wasn't arbitrarily developed in that specific format but that environmental factors determined the format. An example is the architecture of the Greek islands. The houses have thick walls in order to protect from heat, the windows are tiny in order to protect from the sun and the wind, they are painted white in order to reflect the sunlight and keep the interior cool during the summer. Similarly other aspects of culture can be traced in the real world.
So, it's about how people talk, what clothes they wear, what activities they are supposed to take or not to take, do they apply paint on their bodies or not, and if yes, in what manner, what differences between individuals are considered socially meaningful and what meaningless, what relations are formed between individuals and what dynamics these relations show...


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30 Jan 2023, 1:00 pm

Living languages are constantly evolving to reflect the needs of the people. There’s nothing new about this concept.


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magz
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30 Jan 2023, 1:03 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Have I missed something and we're in USSR now?
Do people end up in GULag for being rude and I missed it?
If we are not in the USSR , then why use the expression "Political correctness" at all? We use it as an analogy. But now it means respect apparently.

Being cancelled is not exactly like being sent to the gulags but it's a good analogy.

If we're not junkies, why do we use the term "burnout"? If you're not Czech, why do you use the term "robot"?

In the West, the term "political correctness" was introduced as self-satire and then started to live its own life.

I find equating criticism of behaviors to physical torture of gulag system - a manipulation taken way too far.


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Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 1:17 pm

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Have I missed something and we're in USSR now?
Do people end up in GULag for being rude and I missed it?
If we are not in the USSR , then why use the expression "Political correctness" at all? We use it as an analogy. But now it means respect apparently.

Being cancelled is not exactly like being sent to the gulags but it's a good analogy.

If we're not junkies, why do we use the term "burnout"? If you're not Czech, why do you use the term "robot"?

In the West, the term "political correctness" was introduced as self-satire and then started to live its own life.

I find equating criticism of behaviors to physical torture of gulag system - a manipulation taken way too far.


Cancelling is not exactly e criticism. People have had their careers and livelihoods taken away or threatened.

Also it was not exactly self satire. It was used by moderate liberals in order to criticise extremist progressives (The woke). But apparently now it means respect.



Dengashinobi
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30 Jan 2023, 1:23 pm

magz wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
magz wrote:
Developing new terms or applying new meanings to old ones is as old as language.
It does not render communication useless, it makes communication of newly developed concepts possible, so we can have disputes on them.
If you look at the history of science and philosophy, you find it literally everywhere.

How is culture quantifiable in real world?


Changes in vocabulary happen but they happen spontaneously, not within the context of an ideological discourse. In this case it's not a change, it's a political idiom. It's origins are tracably ideological and its special meaning not universally accepted.
Researchers of all fields introduce various concepts all the time. Some stick, some don't, some start living their own lives, like "ecologists" for environment protection activists or countless misconceptions about relativity.
What makes this process "ideological"?

Dengashinobi wrote:
Culture is can be quantifiable in the real world. For example when we analyse the architecture of a specific region we can see that it wasn't arbitrarily developed in that specific format but that environmental factors determined the format. An example is the architecture of the Greek islands. The houses have thick walls in order to protect from heat, the windows are tiny in order to protect from the sun and the wind, they are painted white in order to reflect the sunlight and keep the interior cool during the summer. Similarly other aspects of culture can be traced in the real world.
So, it's about how people talk, what clothes they wear, what activities they are supposed to take or not to take, do they apply paint on their bodies or not, and if yes, in what manner, what differences between individuals are considered socially meaningful and what meaningless, what relations are formed between individuals and what dynamics these relations show...


Yes but postmodernist does that in whole other level. To the point that language becomes deceitful.

About the culture reflecting real world. Some aspects of it we can trace in the real world. Some we can't and therefore we can't talk about it because it's just useless speculation.