Are NTs/humans becoming more easily offended as time passes?

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Mona Pereth
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03 Jan 2023, 11:15 am

Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Yes, I think the problem is multifaceted. The ghosting culture probably cannot be blamed on just one monolithic entity, such as social media, but there are other economic and cultural factors involved also.

"The ghosting culture." Thanks for calling our attention to that term. Yet another aspect of the problem I've been discussing in this thread.


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techstepgenr8tion
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03 Jan 2023, 11:28 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Lecia_Wynter wrote:
Yes, I think the problem is multifaceted. The ghosting culture probably cannot be blamed on just one monolithic entity, such as social media, but there are other economic and cultural factors involved also.

"The ghosting culture." Thanks for calling our attention to that term. Yet another aspect of the problem I've been discussing in this thread.

Look up avoidant attachment style, there are some relationship counselors who've said that maybe 25% of people out there right now have it and their way of doing things is also defining the culture around dating apps. As far as I understand it this is the view that one cannot collaborate with others, that life is zero-sum / negative-sum games, so then the goal is not relationships but seeing what pleasure one can extract from others (whether sexual or finance and status). It's the 'This date is the latest cheap piece of plastic that I bought at the store to feel better for five minutes, now I'm throwing it over my shoulder the same way I would any other impulse buy'. A mentality where people don't really exist, just consumption.


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03 Jan 2023, 11:49 am

There's another rather dark take I've heard from one of the relatively red pill / MGTOW channels I occasionally listen to (Aaron Clarey) but I think he might be on to something. The idea is that, especially in the US, we've opened everything up for people to climb Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that if someone's willing to work for true self-fulfillment the sky's the limit, however most people are lazy and want it all given to them (yet they resent anyone who won't treat them like kings and queens), thus the peak of their heirarchy, rather than self-actualization in any deep or profound sense, is the highest-level fad consumer good called 'Being lied to'. In this context being lied to isn't about being scammed in a way that the costs come home and hit you tomorrow, sort of the 'a sucker is born every minute', but lies that can keep you feeling like you're a minor deity rather than just a normal person for decades before the costs actually come in.

Some examples - it's the 'I can have my cake and eat it too' mentality, or 'I can make whatever mistakes I make, in my greatness, and just externalize the costs on other people later'. Similarly the grabbier and more entitled aspects of socialism tend to be reacted to and utilized this way. Anyone who says 'You can have it all' is cashing in on this impulse.


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03 Jan 2023, 11:53 am

People don’t want to directly offend or hurt somebody; that’s why there’s “ghosting.”

Ghosting is a punk’s way out—but it’s understandable on a certain level.

People have more of a tendency, these days, not to be resilient enough to just “move on.”



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03 Jan 2023, 11:58 am

There's more opportunity for us to be offended, because of the constant bombardment of social media and international news. Centuries ago people got butt-hurt by their immediate neighbours but didn't know what people on the other side of the planet were saying about their breakfast choices, hair colour, or personal opinions.

There's also a huge emphasis on self-expression and self-identity now, as opposed to following the church (or any type of religious scripture), and towing the line for conformity.


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03 Jan 2023, 12:33 pm

Dear_one wrote:
You are looking back through the filter of modern mythology. Native American tribes look like patriarchies, because the chief was generally a man in the prime of his life. However, he didn't get there by beating people up, but by helping them work together and get more done. He was chosen not by combat, or even by his gang, but by the grandmothers. They had the most interest in the future of the tribe, rather than their own fortunes, the wisdom of experience, and the interests of both men and women at heart.

When boys are busy playing sports, and building skills useful for hunting and protection through practice and teamwork, their sisters are preoccupied with learning to compete with each other by making and breaking alliances and controlling information. If women were helpless and just being kept down by physical force, they would have also taken up arms when "the great equalizer" made Billy the Kid as dangerous as any man.


Sorry, I don't know anything about American history.

I'm talking about BC (Before Christ) in Britain with the Ancient Britons. Then came Celts, Romans, Anglo Saxons, Vikings, Normans- all those invading groups had male dominated societies, and this persisted until fairly recently in Britain. Thousands of years of that, which is what I am talking about. It became ingrained in society and is hard to change, even now.


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03 Jan 2023, 12:39 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:
KitLily wrote:
I agree with you 100%. And however hard I try, I manage to offend people anyway and get ghosted/dumped. I never have any idea why.

Although, when I used to get dumped 10 years ago, I sometimes had an idea about what I'd said wrong, but the person didn't tell me so I was guessing.

Now days, I literally have zero idea why I get dumped. Nil. None.

That's another reason I think people are getting more easily offended: Over the years, it's gone from 'me not offending anyone', to 'me offending people with a vague idea why', to 'me offending people with zero idea why'.

Very strange.

Same here. There was a transgirl I was trying to date, and on our first meeting she acted like she was into me and then the next day ghosted me with no explanation. Later I found out she was a flat-earther so there's no explanation for that kind of crazy. To this day I still don't know exactly why she ghosted me. One of my theories is that when I left the car, maybe she didn't like the side-angle of my face, or maybe she didn't like my walking style. Idk.


That is happening to me more and more: getting ghosted with zero explanation.

15 years ago someone told me that she didn't like me anymore because I'd 'said something nasty'. She didn't tell me what it was and I only found out 10 years later, but at least she told me why she was ghosting me. Which seems incredibly polite now compared to these days when I'm ghosted and never ever find out why.

I feel like I'm constantly in a fog of unawareness, fumbling about because no one ever discusses anything with me, they just disappear. :?


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03 Jan 2023, 12:42 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I've also found this to be true over the course of my lifetime. Honesty used to be seen as a good thing in the past decades and I used to be able to joke around. People weren't so hung up on political correctness in the past decades. There was one member at my clubhouse who took offense at the fact that I carved an iron cross in the back of my pumpkin around Halloween. It seems that people have become snowflakes.


Honesty is more nuanced these days. There's a difference between being rude and being tactful with your honesty. However I often cross that line myself.

I do believe in treating people with respect and being aware that other people have different needs to myself. If that makes me a PC, woke, snowflake, I'm happy with that.


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03 Jan 2023, 12:49 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
There's more opportunity for us to be offended, because of the constant bombardment of social media and international news. Centuries ago people got butt-hurt by their immediate neighbours but didn't know what people on the other side of the planet were saying about their breakfast choices, hair colour, or personal opinions.


That is so true. Smaller communities meant there wasn't much opportunity to be offended because neighbours all depended on each other for help and support, so going round offending each other was a very bad idea. People didn't know anyone apart from neighbours and relatives so didn't have millions of people from all over the world insulting them 24/7.

Many older cultures had monthly village meetings too, where everyone aired their grievances with others, and then the village decided as a whole what to do about it.

The Norse culture called these meetings 'Things' or 'Althings' and people would say 'Einar made my daughter pregnant, what should we do?' 'Gudrun stole my cow and kept it at her farm, what should we do?' And the village would decide how the transgressor would make up for what they had done.

Someone said on WP that humans need to re-learn to compromise and make amends, instead of just moving on regardless. I agree.


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Mona Pereth
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03 Jan 2023, 2:08 pm

Dear_one wrote:
You are looking back through the filter of modern mythology. Native American tribes look like patriarchies, because the chief was generally a man in the prime of his life. However, he didn't get there by beating people up, but by helping them work together and get more done. He was chosen not by combat, or even by his gang, but by the grandmothers.

Different Indigenous American tribes were organized in different ways. What you describe above was true for the Iroquois, in particular, but not for all Indigenous American tribes.

Dear_one wrote:
When boys are busy playing sports, and building skills useful for hunting and protection through practice and teamwork, their sisters are preoccupied with learning to compete with each other by making and breaking alliances and controlling information.

The above is quite a generalization. When I as a kid, I did neither of the above.

Dear_one wrote:
If women were helpless and just being kept down by physical force,

Back in the 1800's and earlier, there were plenty of laws keeping women down too.

See also my reply to another recent post of yours.


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Last edited by Mona Pereth on 03 Jan 2023, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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03 Jan 2023, 2:15 pm

KitLily wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
There's more opportunity for us to be offended, because of the constant bombardment of social media and international news. Centuries ago people got butt-hurt by their immediate neighbours but didn't know what people on the other side of the planet were saying about their breakfast choices, hair colour, or personal opinions.


That is so true. Smaller communities meant there wasn't much opportunity to be offended because neighbours all depended on each other for help and support, so going round offending each other was a very bad idea. People didn't know anyone apart from neighbours and relatives so didn't have millions of people from all over the world insulting them 24/7.

Many older cultures had monthly village meetings too, where everyone aired their grievances with others, and then the village decided as a whole what to do about it.

The Norse culture called these meetings 'Things' or 'Althings' and people would say 'Einar made my daughter pregnant, what should we do?' 'Gudrun stole my cow and kept it at her farm, what should we do?' And the village would decide how the transgressor would make up for what they had done.

Someone said on WP that humans need to re-learn to compromise and make amends, instead of just moving on regardless. I agree.

Yes I think a real-life group of people is different like that. There's usually at least some element of co-operation even in modern cities where everybody's supposed to be so alienated from each other. You don't want to alienate your neighbour because you might want to borrow his lawnmower. But on social media, not so much. So it can become a competitive debating game and an outlet for venting the spleen.

I suppose television news can be quite a trigger for the viewers to debate thorny issues such as politics and religion, as the news is usually full of items about those subjects. It's almost a form of trolling, though it's hard to know what to do about it, except to wait until nobody watches live TV any more.



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03 Jan 2023, 2:59 pm

KitLily wrote:
Someone said on WP that humans need to re-learn to compromise and make amends, instead of just moving on regardless. I agree.

Agreed.

And we especially need to re-learn to do these things within small subcultures -- such as the autistic community.


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03 Jan 2023, 5:14 pm

Lecia_Wynter wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Lecia_Wynter wrote:
I dislike social media due to spyware, but I don't think its just because of social media. I have defriended people even though I have hardly any close friends or immediate replacements.


Welcome to Wrong Planet.

Not only social media but the internet in general has created an expectation of instant simplistic answers.


Yes, I think the problem is multifaceted. The ghosting culture probably cannot be blamed on just one monolithic entity, such as social media, but there are other economic and cultural factors involved also.


KitLily wrote:
Caz72 wrote:
i find people so hard to talk to because having to remember what offends and what doesnt

mind you , people say much more harmful things to us than what we probably ever said to them so dont really know what im worrying about


I agree with you 100%. And however hard I try, I manage to offend people anyway and get ghosted/dumped. I never have any idea why.

Although, when I used to get dumped 10 years ago, I sometimes had an idea about what I'd said wrong, but the person didn't tell me so I was guessing.

Now days, I literally have zero idea why I get dumped. Nil. None.

That's another reason I think people are getting more easily offended: Over the years, it's gone from 'me not offending anyone', to 'me offending people with a vague idea why', to 'me offending people with zero idea why'.

Very strange.

Same here. There was a transgirl I was trying to date, and on our first meeting she acted like she was into me and then the next day ghosted me with no explanation. Later I found out she was a flat-earther so there's no explanation for that kind of crazy. To this day I still don't know exactly why she ghosted me. One of my theories is that when I left the car, maybe she didn't like the side-angle of my face, or maybe she didn't like my walking style. Idk.


Dengashinobi wrote:
MissMary227 wrote:
Interesting question.

I think as our communities fall away from church and religion; culture fills in the gaps with their religion. Secular religion doctrine is social justice, personal truth (vs absolute truth), being dominated by feelings instead of facts, limited speech so as not to offend anyone, and majority rule dictated by popular trends and the idols of the day (Fauci for one example/actors/actresses/politicians/the elite/schools).

:idea: I guess my theory is that there existed an adopted Judeo-Christian mores which most folks and families adhered to for nearly 200 years which goes all the way back to our country's founding. And in the 1960's that started eroding away with humanistic theological and philosophical pursuits which has led to a modern hodge-podge of beliefs and notions in our citizenry with little coherence or common denominator with which to relate to each other. :?:


Certainly what we are seeing now with wokeism is the birth of a religion, or an attempt at it. As Nick Cave called it, "A bad religion run amok". It shares a lot of similarities with religions, it has its own doctrine free of reality, it has it's special magic words, it has it's infidels, It has its saints like Greta Thunberg, Malala, Faucci etc. It has happened before. Communism was probably the largest religion in the world during the 20th century. It had it's dogma, it's prophet (Karl Marx), it's sacred text (The Communist Manifesto), it's church (The Communist party) and its eschatology (Communism). Fascism was similarly a religion. That's why those who opposed Nazism the most from within the German society, were the priests and pastors, because they could see that this was an ideology foreign to the Christian faith. The 19th century German philosopher Friedrich Nitzche was the one to predict what was to come in the 20th century by proclaming "the god is dead". Meaning that since scientific advance had rendered the Christian faith unbelievable, now the western societies were in a moral crisis. He was afraid of what was to come that is going to fill that gap which the abandonement of Christianity left. Unfortunately he was proven to be right as we witnessed during the 20th century with the raise of Communism and it's cousin, Fascism. What we are witnessing today with this cluster of morality and virtue signsling based movements, like intersectionality, critical theory, climate change, green new deal and so on, is yet another attempt at filling that gap.


If they viewed Fauci as that, they wouldn't be very woke, as he tortures dogs for no reason (and basically the whole NiH tortures animals also.) The Land Management down south also slaughtered a bunch of wild horses for oil.

The whole woke thing is basically a change of hands from right-wingers who acted the same as modern woke leftists. In the past, right-wingers were intolerant of things such as queers or things that questioned their religion. There was a whole right-wing cancel culture for anything outside of tradcon dogma.

Maybe the Romans ended up embracing Christianity due to the lack of tolerance of society, perhaps there society was getting infested by cancel-culture needed to learn to forgive and forget. Modern Christianity seems to be missing the point as Jesus was basically a commie and Republicans seem really intolerant. Though cruxifiction is barbaric and primitive, maybe there should be some sort of torture punishment given to people who torture animals and such.


Yes, it seems the tables are turned. As soon as the woke left got demographically the favour of the public opinion they began to do exactly what the opposite side used to do in their hay day. It's like it is the nature of the human race to purge the minority "others". Basically this is the history of mankind. We, autistics know how it is to be at the receiving end of those dynamics. I hope we all agree that intolerance is no good no matter where it comes from and towards whom is directed to.



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03 Jan 2023, 6:14 pm

^
I don't blame the left or the right particularly. I think it's just a sad part of human nature, that people in general tend to make up arbitrary rules and they fail to weigh up the harm and good those rules might do before they unleash them onto everybody.



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03 Jan 2023, 6:25 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
^
I don't blame the left or the right particularly. I think it's just a sad part of human nature, that people in general tend to make up arbitrary rules and they fail to weigh up the harm and good those rules might do before they unleash them onto everybody.

I think that's the point often enough, it's a toolkit to weaponize for social climbing.


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04 Jan 2023, 8:10 am

And social climbing is emphatically NOT what autistic people are interested in. So I think that these days we are seen as no-hopers because we don't know how to schmooze and be fake so we can climb the social ladder.


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