Changes in sexual attitudes in Eur. over the last 3 decades?

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MaxE
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19 Feb 2023, 2:46 pm

I.e. the end of the Cold War.

It seems to me that some things such as public nudity were more widely accepted in the late 80s than nowadays. I believe I can talk with some authority about changes in the US but it's generally accepted that Europeans are more relaxed about sexual matters than are Americans. I am speaking of continental Europe not the UK (which would be a separate topic I think).

Let's propose, nevertheless, that Europe (both West and East) has gotten more prudish. In which case, I can think of a few possible causes:

1.) An increase in religious practice in the East.
2.) The internet, social media, etc.
3.) Increased ethnic diversity, for example, being sexually liberated might be easier if everyone you know is a light-skinned Lutheran, but becomes more challenging when many of your social contacts are darker skinned Muslims.
4.) A general increase in sex aversion over the last decade or so, especially affecting "Generation Z".

But this is all speculation for me. Any thoughts on this from people who live in Europe and can remember that far back, or think they have a good idea who things were then?


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Honey69
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19 Feb 2023, 7:42 pm

It could be that, generally speaking, we're a lot fatter now than we were in the 1980s. Not many people want to look at nude fatties. Those who are presently fit are in the minority, and probably want to cover themselves to avoid the attention.

Also, Europe has a lot more Muslims now, and Muslim immigrants have brought conservative outlooks.


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Dengashinobi
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20 Feb 2023, 3:02 am

The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.



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20 Feb 2023, 5:46 am

The natural action reaction cycle?


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funeralxempire
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20 Feb 2023, 2:53 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


How is opposing rape 'conservatism'? :chin:


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Dengashinobi
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20 Feb 2023, 5:07 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


How is opposing rape 'conservatism'? :chin:


Conservatives oppose rape too.



Hollywood_Guy
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20 Feb 2023, 5:55 pm

I think it might go in cycles. It was considered normal for men to wear Speedos in the 70s and 80s, now it is assumed to be a "queer" thing. I don't think history works that linear like some people tend to think. And of course, sexy female fictional characters are becoming unacceptable too. And I don't believe it was like that before the 60s everything or everyone was overly-prudish (applying to both Europe and the USA), it was just seen as more something to keep in the private closet. But it's not like people didn't enjoy sex.



Hollywood_Guy
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20 Feb 2023, 6:01 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


Notwithstanding PC, it does make sense if you think about it that immigration in mass eventually and inexorably would change the cultural attitudes of that country.

The way you call woke culture a "new kind of conservatism coming from the left" is a little odd. :?



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20 Feb 2023, 6:03 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


How is opposing rape 'conservatism'? :chin:


Conservatives oppose rape too.


But usually only because it results in a woman not being a virgin on her wedding night. To the evangelical right, a victim is just another fornicator or adulteress.


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funeralxempire
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20 Feb 2023, 7:37 pm

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


How is opposing rape 'conservatism'? :chin:


Conservatives oppose rape too.


Most people do, although conservatives sometimes invent funny definitions to make f*****g children okay (so long as it's straight sex with the man who married them).

I just mean there's nothing inherently left or liberal about #MeToo.

Jeez, women who worked at Fox News had plenty to say about sexual harassment in the work place, but they didn't become leftists for voicing those concerns.


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Dengashinobi
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21 Feb 2023, 7:06 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


How is opposing rape 'conservatism'? :chin:


Conservatives oppose rape too.


Most people do, although conservatives sometimes invent funny definitions to make f*****g children okay (so long as it's straight sex with the man who married them).


What???



MaxE
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21 Feb 2023, 10:06 am

Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Dengashinobi wrote:
The idea of muslim immigration influencing cultural attitudes in Europe is an interesting one.

I would also add the most recent developments with woke culture, specially intersectional feminism and the me too movement. It's a new kind of conservatism coming from the left, which I find fascinating.


How is opposing rape 'conservatism'? :chin:


Conservatives oppose rape too.


Most people do, although conservatives sometimes invent funny definitions to make f*****g children okay (so long as it's straight sex with the man who married them).


What???

Google the Waco incident. BTW the person who was engaging in married sex with quite young girls is remembered as a martyr by many Americans.

EDIT might not have actually been married. I'd have to research but the basic principle still applies.


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Last edited by MaxE on 21 Feb 2023, 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

ToughDiamond
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21 Feb 2023, 10:09 am

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
I think it might go in cycles. It was considered normal for men to wear Speedos in the 70s and 80s, now it is assumed to be a "queer" thing. I don't think history works that linear like some people tend to think. And of course, sexy female fictional characters are becoming unacceptable too. And I don't believe it was like that before the 60s everything or everyone was overly-prudish (applying to both Europe and the USA), it was just seen as more something to keep in the private closet. But it's not like people didn't enjoy sex.

I think you may be right. I was there in the 60s, saw the permissive society and all. Seemed to be a case of "if the Establishment hates it, let's do it." So it couldn't last.

Interesting that the OP cites public nudity as an example of sexual behaviour. A lot of its proponents at the time used to insist that it was nothing of the kind. It was a strange era.



MaxE
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21 Feb 2023, 10:15 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Hollywood_Guy wrote:
I think it might go in cycles. It was considered normal for men to wear Speedos in the 70s and 80s, now it is assumed to be a "queer" thing. I don't think history works that linear like some people tend to think. And of course, sexy female fictional characters are becoming unacceptable too. And I don't believe it was like that before the 60s everything or everyone was overly-prudish (applying to both Europe and the USA), it was just seen as more something to keep in the private closet. But it's not like people didn't enjoy sex.

I think you may be right. I was there in the 60s, saw the permissive society and all. Seemed to be a case of "if the Establishment hates it, let's do it." So it couldn't last.

Interesting that the OP cites public nudity as an example of sexual behaviour. A lot of its proponents at the time used to insist that it was nothing of the kind. It was a strange era.

I disagree that public nudity isn't sexual. There's no legitimate non-sexual reason for a young woman to be topless on a public beach. The most practical thing would be a tank suit as that would protect her from premature aging and skin cancer.


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21 Feb 2023, 10:17 am

Should men also wear tank tops on the beach to protect themselves from skin cancer and aging?

Is breast-feeding babies sexual?


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Dengashinobi
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21 Feb 2023, 10:22 am

MaxE wrote:
Google the Waco incident. BTW the person who was engaging in married sex with quite young girls is remembered as a martyr by many Americans.

EDIT might not have actually been married. I'd have to research but the basic principle still applies.


How does a crazy cult represent conservatism? The Waco incident is remembered by libertarians as an example of government overreach, not because they liked the guy who is alleged to have had a relationship with one minor.