Tories say 'rough sleeping is a lifestyle choice

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Lost_dragon
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09 Nov 2023, 7:17 pm

So, what I gather from this thread is that there are different causes of homelessness and therefore we need different approaches accordingly. Complex issue. Especially when it comes to addiction and negative behaviour.

I don't think anti-homeless architecture is the answer. That just means people shuffle around constantly and that doesn't fix anything. It's also bad for people with chronic pain or disabilities because depending on the structure it can make accessibility difficult.


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10 Nov 2023, 10:46 am

Dox47 wrote:
Mona Pereth wrote:
I suspect that you might be confusing the majority of homeless people in general with the majority of the most visibly homeless.


Perhaps, I am specifically talking about the most destructive and disruptive ones, the people who as I've previously said are clearly not just ordinary folks who were forced out by rising housing costs or such.


I think the most visible homeless are the ones who are the most disruptive. If someone is living in a tent in the streets, chances are nobody wants to let them into their homes, not even friends.

Currently, my close friend has a homeless man living with him but he's a case of bad circumstances and not addiction/unmanageable mental health problems.

When it comes to policies like the one floated in this thread, reading between the lines, the government want to make life as hard as possible to the dysfunctional and aggressive homeless which I'm actually in support of if it gets them off city high streets.



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10 Nov 2023, 10:54 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
Nades wrote:
Unfortunately, the dysfunctional homeless just cause too much destruction and mystery for viable "in community" solutions. A completely closed off building housing vast numbers the most antisocial homeless in ruthless structured order is the only solution assuming they have something constructive to learn while inside and eventually ready to be let lose again, assuming they actually become safe to release.

No, not "vast numbers" in only a few isolated locations. For people as dysfunctional as your former tenant, there do need to be asylums or asylum-like facilities, but there need to be enough of them, in enough different locations, that their relatives (if any) can visit them regularly. Otherwise the inmates are likely to end up being seriously abused by staff, as has all too often happened in institutions in the past.


I think the most important aspect of such facilities are the fact they need to be closed off. Not only to keep the general public safe but also to keep drugs and other threats going in and undoing any improvements being made.

Unfortunately, friends and family are a significant source of drugs in prisons and I don't see it being any different for the homeless in asylums. So long as visits are behind a perspex window, then they could work but I honestly think the only way to deal with the destructive, aggressive and dysfunctional homeless is a complete removal of them from society for several years.



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10 Nov 2023, 12:24 pm

blitzkrieg wrote:
babybird wrote:
It's just another way to kick the most vulnerable in society again.

Take away benefits
Take away tents
Next they'll be taking away the shirts off our backs.

Fuçking çunts



Hear hear! :salut:


That post came as an utter surprise to me. I can't even remember making it. It's very true though.


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babybird
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10 Nov 2023, 12:35 pm

It's really cold when you sleep on the streets. Even if you find a doorway that's partially sheltered the draft always finds a way to get round your back. The damp gets into your bones and even when the temperature is a bit warmer it can take forever to get warmed up. You don't sleep properly and you're always vulnerable from the worst types of people taking advantage of you.

If I ever ended up having to sleep rough again in my life then I would definitely get myself a tent.

The bastards would have to cut it from around me to get it off me.

When I was a child I was always told or lead to believe that some people do choose to sleep rough. I don't think they do. I think sometimes it might be just be a better option than the alternative especially if you come from an abusive home.


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10 Nov 2023, 1:33 pm

babybird wrote:
It's really cold when you sleep on the streets. Even if you find a doorway that's partially sheltered the draft always finds a way to get round your back. The damp gets into your bones and even when the temperature is a bit warmer it can take forever to get warmed up. You don't sleep properly and you're always vulnerable from the worst types of people taking advantage of you.

If I ever ended up having to sleep rough again in my life then I would definitely get myself a tent.

The bastards would have to cut it from around me to get it off me.

When I was a child I was always told or lead to believe that some people do choose to sleep rough. I don't think they do. I think sometimes it might be just be a better option than the alternative especially if you come from an abusive home.


Tents, unfortunately, are not very secure At All.. even with a lock on the zippers, if someone wants inside it's one quick slice with a knife.

Here, in the roughest part of town, I once saw a young man carrying a setup tent down the street offering it for sale. The old woman that was my tour guide of the hood that night wanted it to keep out of the rain that was coming, so, I bought it for her in appreciation for introducing me to a bunch of people on "the block," that would help try to locate/relay messages to my friend. She tipped it over and some sex workers belongings spilled out onto the sidewalk.. she picked up. a couple useful things and grabbed a broom and dustpan and put everything else into the nearest garbage can.

If I were going to live in a tent it would either be in a cluster of tents with known neighbours, or better yet, hidden somewhere solo where no one could steal what little I had Or my shelter from the rain.


For some, tents are safer and cleaner than shelters or SRO's, for others their drug addictions are so powerful that they'll exist in nearly any conditions if it means staying high - as well as do some pretty unspeakable things to fuel their drug habits. It's all really quite sad. I don't have an addictive personality when it comes to drugs, so ones I've tried that others get hooked on are just kinda like "Ok, that was cool, whatever," so I don't personally get the whole "I can't believe I'm doing This for drugs," sort of thing, but some people are just wired differently I guess.. and they end up that way despite wishing they didn't.


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babybird
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10 Nov 2023, 1:37 pm

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Like with a group of tents. I think it can be more dangerous in a tent if you're on your own. I always like an escape route. It's the first thing I look for wherever I go.


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10 Nov 2023, 1:56 pm

babybird wrote:
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Like with a group of tents. I think it can be more dangerous in a tent if you're on your own. I always like an escape route. It's the first thing I look for wherever I go.

Your neighbours would have to really have your back. It might work out in a well lit area with lots of neighbours you get along with.. but, keep in mind that some of these people are Impossible to get along with.

The stolen tent was taken from an encampment in a park a few long blocks away, where there are many other tents.. and no one stopped the guy. So it's not always safe even in groups. Never know, maybe the tent owner wasn't liked or respected so no one cared ? Or maybe the only people around at the time, if any, were meek ? There are people in that encampment wearing makeshift body armour and armed to the teeth with various weapons doing security patrols.

The people I know that have hidden/semi hidden little camps in the woods do Much better. People who know where they are leave them be. They keep things pretty clean usually so no complaints. Outsiders won't spot their camps and they're so far removed from the street scene that none of those people are going to ever make the trek across the city to go bother them. WAY better to camp in the serenity of nature and only have to figure out how to setup so you're not bothered by racoons or coyotes than it is to have to setup camp next to a bunch of people you're on constant alert about being robbed, beaten, or sexually assaulted. Just saying.. if I ever had to live the tent life I'd be squatting in a wooded park area, not in the most dangerous area of town where people stay up all night to avoid terrible things happening. I think the biggest reason that majority of them stay right there isn't even for the social services, meals, laundry, showers etc that are available in the hood.. but rather because they don't venture far from their drug dealers And sources of income to feed their habits. Do crime, get cash, buy drugs, get high and nod off nearby.. rinse & repeat.


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11 Nov 2023, 7:25 am

Well let's hope we're never in that situation.

The thing with Braverman is that she says so many things. No one is even talking about it and remembering about the tents anymore because she's on for accusing the police if being too left wing now. And next week she'll be on for something else so we won't remember that.

I mean come on really...the police have been found to be anything but left wing in each and every enquiry that's taken place in the last about 40 years.

She's the most destructive force in UK government at this time. She's literally setting the country against each other. She's also making sunak look like an absolute wimp. Not that he needs much help with that to be fair.


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11 Nov 2023, 7:58 am

And I'll tell you what; if the UK was an asylum then the lunatics have definitely taken over


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11 Nov 2023, 8:52 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
My fear is I will get taxed out of my home. I wish taxes were fixed once you buy your home. That means they cannot raise them on you after you make your purchase.

Raising your taxes wouldn't be necessary if we were to return to 1950's-style taxes on the rich. We really need the latter, IMO, for lots and lots of reasons including not just the money itself, but the undesirability of extreme and growing economic inequality.


I agree. There would be less homeless people if rich folk were taxed effectively and proportionately and were not allowed to dodge their tax contributions.



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11 Nov 2023, 10:05 am

They actually release people from prison with tents.

So what happens; they get on the other side of the gate and one of Bravermans henchmen take it off them.


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11 Nov 2023, 10:16 am

babybird wrote:
It's really cold when you sleep on the streets. Even if you find a doorway that's partially sheltered the draft always finds a way to get round your back. The damp gets into your bones and even when the temperature is a bit warmer it can take forever to get warmed up. You don't sleep properly and you're always vulnerable from the worst types of people taking advantage of you.

If I ever ended up having to sleep rough again in my life then I would definitely get myself a tent.

The bastards would have to cut it from around me to get it off me.

When I was a child I was always told or lead to believe that some people do choose to sleep rough. I don't think they do. I think sometimes it might be just be a better option than the alternative especially if you come from an abusive home.


I was also given the impression as a youngster, by the people around me, that rough sleeping was somehow the fault of an individual. I stopped believing that many years ago.



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11 Nov 2023, 11:02 am

I'll tell you what though; when I was a kid and I used to sleep rough I always regret not going to Spain or somewhere like that to do it. It's a much warmer climate plus in holiday season you can easy get a job handing out nightclub fliers on the streets. Now that would have been more of a lifestyle choice but sleeping rough in this f*****g cesspit of a country definitely wasn't.


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11 Nov 2023, 11:26 am

I recently read an article about Milton Keynes City Council's approach to homelessness. They're doing a hell of a lot better than the rest of the UK. The idea is to get people into permenant accomodation as quickly as possible, instead of dicking about with shelters and other temporary accomodation that don't provide long-term stability. One detail that stood out: they said that in the whole city, there are just 16 hardcore homeless people who refuse to come indoors for various reasons, and those 16 are being checked up on.

This is a similar approach to Finland, who have virtually eliminated homelessness. The Finns have found the rather counter-intuitive result that paying for homes for the homeless actually saves the government money. Most of these people end up back in the workforce and paying taxes, and they're not out committing petty crimes to survive, nor are they landing in hospital with pneumonia or an overdose every few months.


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11 Nov 2023, 11:39 am

Yeah it's a good idea that


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