Page 3 of 4 [ 61 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,846
Location: New York City (Queens)

09 Dec 2023, 1:32 am

Honey69 wrote:
The Second Video makes brief mention of the Khazars. A lot of modern Jews are offended at the notion that some Eastern-European Jews might be descended from the Khazars (people who converted to Judaism over a thousand years ago).

What is offensive to Jews (as distinct from just unfounded) is not the mere idea that "some" Eastern European Jews "might be" descended from the Khazars, but rather the idea that all or most Eastern European Jews are descended primarily (or even exclusively) from the Khazars. The latter idea has been used as an excuse for extreme anti-Jewish bigotry, e.g. by the "Christian Identity" movement.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,300

09 Dec 2023, 1:43 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Also there are mentions of a tribe called "the Hebirus" by the Egyptian who (though scholars debate it) it seems likely were the forerunners of the "Hebrews". l.


I accept I got this one reversed. Hebrew > Aramaic in terms of age



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,472
Location: temperate zone

09 Dec 2023, 2:05 am

cyberdad wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
European Jews often have red hair (so do some Palestinian Arabs) but they still tend to "look Jewish". Facial bone structure etc. Appearances can be deceiving. As you said in the sentence that contradicts everything else you said...there are DNA markers.


ummm do you know how genetics work?


I obviously know lot more about "how genetics works" than you do. And am more informed on the field than you are.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,472
Location: temperate zone

09 Dec 2023, 2:23 am

The Bible calls the city Abraham left "Ur of the Chaldeans" ...Chaldeans being AKA "Assyrians".


But the Chaldeans didnt exists as a people nor rule Ur until 850 BC. So the folks in Ur were not Assyrian speakers in the time of Abraham (circa 2000 BC). They probably spoke Akkadian and not Sumerian by the time of Abraham. Which is also a Semitic language. But even if it was still Sumerian speaking the city was surrounded by Semitic speaking cities and groups.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,472
Location: temperate zone

09 Dec 2023, 3:06 am

Diaspora Jews have both things..local DNA and DNA from the Levant implying descent from the Jews of the Bible. Which is pretty much what you would expect.

Your claim that Jews are genetically indistinquishable from their Gentile neighbors is not born up by DNA studies. They are quite distinct.


https://youtu.be/sZUSSG3DTkQ



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,300

09 Dec 2023, 4:27 am

No marker genes are specific alleles that can indicate phylogeny, Jews show phylogenetic relationships with other Jews. But that doesn't mean all jews are more closely related genetically to each other > gentiles/goyim they live around.

Classic example are Ethiopian Jews. They are genetically indistinguishable from Ethiopian christians. Yet they have retained judaic practices that have long since vanished 2000 years ago from the time Solomon. it's one of the reasons that some Israeli rabbis are skeptical over their lineage. But why would a bunch of Ethiopians adopt every facet of a strange religion that is not itself designed to be spread to non-Jews and keep/pass down the laws for multiple generations for 2000 years?



The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 41
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 32,916
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.

11 Dec 2023, 7:32 am

cyberdad wrote:
Wasn't sure the direction of knowing Palestinian DNA was going, But becomes apparent.

For indigenous claims to the land, the modern Palestinians want to claim connection to the ancient Philistines (who predated the arrival of the Jews from their ancient ancestral home in Sumer).

According to the videos the DNA evidence suggest modern Palestinians are not related to the Philistines. Ironically the people who originally inhabited the Levant before the arrival of Arab and Jewish speakers were more closely related to the Greek speaking peoples of Anatolia.

The spread of Islam into the Levant saw the arrival of Arab DNA from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and north Africa. Its from these groups where the modern Arabs living in Israel come from.


This was more explicitly answered in the 3rd video.

According to the video Lebanese are mostly descended from Canaanites, and Arab ancestry (from Arabian peninsula) doesn't exceed 5% genetically speaking, even the Greek ancestry exceeds the Arab ancestry there. https://youtu.be/kUtjtli12Lg?t=459


Seeing how both groups (Lebanese and Palestinians) have ancestry similarities, they both are not ethnically very related to Arabs.
The spread of Islam was a cultural conquest more than a population replacement.


Image

Image

Image

Image

I think there's typo there, it is probably meants Greek/Maronite, with splash in the middle.

Image



Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,348
Location: Llareggub

11 Dec 2023, 9:20 am

Mona Pereth wrote:
What is offensive to Jews (as distinct from just unfounded) is not the mere idea that "some" Eastern European Jews "might be" descended from the Khazars, but rather the idea that all or most Eastern European Jews are descended primarily (or even exclusively) from the Khazars.


If they are exclusively descended from the Khazars, then what difference does it make?


Mona Pereth wrote:
The latter idea has been used as an excuse for extreme anti-Jewish bigotry, e.g. by the "Christian Identity" movement.


Well, the "Christian Identity Movement" is obviously idiotic.

Wikipedia wrote:
Christian Identity (also known as Identity Christianity)[1] is an interpretation of Christianity which advocates the belief that only Celtic and Germanic peoples, such as the Anglo-Saxon, Nordic nations, or people of the Aryan race and people of kindred blood, are the descendants of the ancient Israelites and are therefore God's "chosen people".


Just because idiots are latching onto one really stupid idea doesn't automatically make the other idea (about Eastern-European Jews possibly being descended from the Khazars) wrong.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,348
Location: Llareggub

02 Jan 2024, 5:46 pm



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmOBsYbxPCY


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,472
Location: temperate zone

03 Jan 2024, 1:58 am

Honey69 wrote:

Exactly what I was saying in the above post in this thread.

Chomsky demolishes his own reputation by latching to a psuedo scientific theory about the origin of the Ashkenazi Jews.

And in that vid ...if you pay attention...he actually admits that he is latching on to the Khazar theory despite the fact that he knows that its bullocks.

He doesnt present a shred of evidence to back it up, and even admits that the conventional theory (Holy land via the Rhineland) theory has all of the DNA evidence.

He also flat out lies by saying the DNA evidence for the conventional theory "comes from labs in Israel". No. It came form labs in Italy by Gentile researchers with no axe to grind.

The ONLY evidence he presents to back up his Khazar theory is this: that "it doesnt matter".

Thats like me saying that I can prove that bigfoot exists. And this proof IS...that it doesnt matter if he exists or not...ergo he must exist! Lol!

There are three major subdivisions of the Jewish ethnic group: Oriental Jews of Middle East (Mizradi), Sephardic (Spanish Jews forced to flee to the Middle East in 1500) and the Ashkenazi (east european and Russian Jews). The later were a huge group of many millions. Three million Jews lived in pre holocaust Poland. Most American Jews are Ashkenazi. So the origins of that big a group is a big deal.



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,011
Location: Adelaide, Australia

03 Jan 2024, 4:01 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Indeed in the 1920s future Israeli prime minister David Ben Gurion even stated in books that the modern Palestinan Arabs are largely are in fact "Jews" who remained in the Holy land after the destruction of the second temple in AD 70, and who later converted to Islam (Christianity and Islam actually).

Twenty years later he changed his tune because suggesting that Jews and Palestinians are siblings didnt fit in with the new Israeli national dogma.

Basing his conclusions on politics rather than science. Typical politician.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,300

06 Jan 2024, 10:36 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

This was more explicitly answered in the 3rd video.

According to the video Lebanese are mostly descended from Canaanites, and Arab ancestry (from Arabian peninsula) doesn't exceed 5% genetically speaking, even the Greek ancestry exceeds the Arab ancestry there. https://youtu.be/kUtjtli12Lg?t=459


Seeing how both groups (Lebanese and Palestinians) have ancestry similarities, they both are not ethnically very related to Arabs.
The spread of Islam was a cultural conquest more than a population replacement.


Image

Image

Image

Image

I think there's typo there, it is probably meants Greek/Maronite, with splash in the middle.

Image



How about the Turkish population in Anatolia and Albanian, Bosnian and Chechen populations. The ancestors of the Anatolian Turks have completely forgotten their Indo-European ancestry while Albanians, Bosnians and Chechens retained their ethnic/linguistic identity.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,472
Location: temperate zone

07 Jan 2024, 4:44 am

^
The "ancestors" of Anatolian Turks, are just like your "ancestors".

They dont remember ANY thing.

They dont remember anything because theyre dead!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

What the heck are you talking about?



Honey69
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Jan 2023
Age: 65
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,348
Location: Llareggub

07 Jan 2024, 8:49 am

Mark Twain wrote:

If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the Milky Way.

Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of.

He is as prominent on the planet as any other people and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk.

His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and obtuse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness of his numbers.

He has made a marvelous fight in this world in all the ages and has done it with his hands tied behind him.

He could be vain of himself and be excused for it. The Egyptians, the Babylonians and the Persians rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, and faded to dream stuff and passed away.

The Greeks and the Romans followed and made a vast noise and they are gone.

Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time. But it burned out, and they sit in twilight now or have vanished.

The Jew saw them all.

Beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew.
All other forces pass, but he remains.


_________________
May you be blessed by YHWH and his Asherah


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,472
Location: temperate zone

07 Jan 2024, 1:35 pm

Interesting quote from Mark Twain.

Jews are a small population. But have a huge percent of the Nobel prizes (for example).



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,300

07 Jan 2024, 2:34 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
^
The "ancestors" of Anatolian Turks, are just like your "ancestors".

They dont remember ANY thing.

They dont remember anything because theyre dead!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

What the heck are you talking about?


Population DNA, phylogenetics. The population of modern Turkic speaking peoples in Anatolia are closer genetically to the population of the Balkans and Greece > central Asia (ancestral homeland of Turkish language)

Same goes for the Hungarians, Lapps and Finns, they speak a language that is closer to north central asians but genetically closer to their neighbors (Hungarians closer to central Europeans, Finns and Lapps closer to Scandanavians)

Likewise the Jewish disapora tend to fit genetically with populations they dwelt with for centuries. A similar thing can be seen with Romani Gypsies. They barely resemble their northern Indian ancestors. But they retain their Sanskrit based language (or at least most of it).

The idea (therefore) of a Palestinian DNA or Jewish DNA to claim "indigenous" bona fides to the region is kind of pointless. This is why the opposition of Jewish rabbis to accepting the so called Falasha Jews from Ethiopia as "real jews" is based on a false premise. The real test should be cultural and religious practice.