Medical transition should be free and mandatory

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What_in_the_what_now
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27 Jan 2024, 12:45 pm

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
IsabellaLinton wrote:
Would all surgeries be free?
What about cancer patients who will otherwise die?


Usually this is a topic regarding the issue of trans people. All I can tell is that all surgeries would be free and that cancer patients like every other disabled patient has priority. We can't have them waiting for too long.


Did you say that with a straight face after some of the awful analogies you have made?



What_in_the_what_now
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27 Jan 2024, 12:48 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
What_in_the_what_now wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Fnord wrote:
By the OP's reasoning, ALL "corrective" procedures should be both free and mandatory.

So if someone does not like my lack of hair, the government can force me to undergo surgical procedures to put hair on my head.

Or if someone thinks my nose is the wrong shape, the government can force me to undergo surgical procedures to change the shape of my nose.

That's taking some of the premises of Orwell's "1984" or Huxley's "Brave New World" a little too far.


Well...whats wrong with that?

I think that everyone in America (except me)male or female.. should be forced at gunpoint into the hospital...to be surgically transformed into a clone of Claudia Schiffer!

And the taxpayer should pay for it!

I mean...is that asking too much?

:lol:


Which Claudia Schiffer?


There is only one.


ah the 90s!



Fairfield
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27 Jan 2024, 12:58 pm

As an actual trans person, the idea of "mandatory" medical transition is sketchy as f**k. That's forced sterilization. And there's many reasons why a "real" trans person wouldn't want to medically transition, a lot of them being due to health issues, where various forms of transition could make the person unwell or even kill them. Not to mention people that don't transition so they can have children + have more options when they have children (example: top surgery prevents the ability for someone FtM to ever breastfeed). This just seems like highkey advocating for sterilizing, killing, and taking choice away from trans people, and I don't f*****g like it.



IsabellaLinton
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27 Jan 2024, 1:04 pm

Fairfield wrote:
As an actual trans person, the idea of "mandatory" medical transition is sketchy as f**k. That's forced sterilization. And there's many reasons why a "real" trans person wouldn't want to medically transition, a lot of them being due to health issues, where various forms of transition could make the person unwell or even kill them. Not to mention people that don't transition so they can have children + have more options when they have children (example: top surgery prevents the ability for someone FtM to ever breastfeed). This just seems like highkey advocating for sterilizing, killing, and taking choice away from trans people, and I don't f*****g like it.


Exactly.

No one decides what happens to my body except me.

See Rowe v Wade.


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uncommondenominator
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27 Jan 2024, 8:57 pm

Full transition is not the final goal or ultimate solution for a lot of trans-people. People should be free to decide their path, and how long they follow it.

Many trans-people deal with depression / suicidal thoughts, not because they can't transition (either because they already did, or because they don't feel the need to), but because society still stigmatizes them.

Forcing someone to undergo a "full-transition" is just as much ignoring an individual's wishes as preventing them from transitioning. You're making the choice, not them, regardless of what THEY actually want.

Also, forcing trans-people to full-transition-or-nothing is no different than the dogmatic transition gatekeeping that doctors used to commit in the 70s and 80s, where unless you were excessively feminine and desperate to change in every way, you weren't "serious enough" about it to get approval.

Many trans-people are perfectly happy with just presenting as, and being recognized as, their preferred identity. Some want more than just presentation, and also want hormones, but not surgery. Some want surgery, but not hormones. Some want both, or all of the above. Some want something else altogether, and that's entirely up to them, and nobody else.

You can't mandate happiness.



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27 Jan 2024, 8:59 pm

uncommondenominator wrote:
You can't mandate happiness.


The beatings will continue until morale improves.


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27 Jan 2024, 11:50 pm

Haven’t read all 5 pages, just sharing my reaction to the proposal:

Mandates on such highly personal matters are always wrong. Period, end of story. What is right for one person could be disastrous for another, I don’t care what lofty long term goal you think the mandate can help achieve. The whole point is supposed to be that everyone gets to be their true self, whatever that is, and even if that means they are X today, Y tomorrow, and X again next week. We should be meeting people where they are at, and not pushing them to move to another box that may or may not be right for them.

I’d much rather remove gendered pronouns from our language, make male v female more of a non issue. That can, over time, solve many of the same issues you think a mandate could.

Change, when done right, takes time. You can’t force it. The younger generation nearly across the board is far far ahead of society as a whole on this. The world will change with them as they move through adulthood. Patience.


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Yugoslav1945
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28 Jan 2024, 12:26 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
Many trans-people deal with depression / suicidal thoughts, not because they can't transition (either because they already did, or because they don't feel the need to), but because society still stigmatizes them.


But that is because they're often misgendered since their body doesn't match their identity!


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funeralxempire
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28 Jan 2024, 12:28 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Many trans-people deal with depression / suicidal thoughts, not because they can't transition (either because they already did, or because they don't feel the need to), but because society still stigmatizes them.


But that is because they're often misgendered since their body doesn't match their identity!


That's one of many reasons, not the only reason.

You have very reductionist takes on issues.


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Yugoslav1945
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28 Jan 2024, 12:28 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
Many trans-people are perfectly happy with just presenting as, and being recognized as, their preferred identity. Some want more than just presentation, and also want hormones, but not surgery. Some want surgery, but not hormones. Some want both, or all of the above. Some want something else altogether, and that's entirely up to them, and nobody else.

You can't mandate happiness.


A trans person who thinks they don't want to medically transition isn't really a trans person. There are girls who simply dress into boys but have female bodies and they're called "Tomboys". There are boys who simply dress in girls but have male bodies and they're called "Femboys". If they don't wanna change their body but only do this, then are they really trans? Do they really understand what their souls want?


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Yugoslav1945
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28 Jan 2024, 12:39 am

uncommondenominator wrote:
Forcing someone to undergo a "full-transition" is just as much ignoring an individual's wishes as preventing them from transitioning.


It's better than not allowing any trans person to transition at all. You have two things that are the opposite of one another.


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28 Jan 2024, 12:40 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Forcing someone to undergo a "full-transition" is just as much ignoring an individual's wishes as preventing them from transitioning.


It's better than not allowing any trans person to transition at all. You have two things that are the opposite of one another.

The point is that people should be free to decide what’s right for them. Some want to transition; others don’t.


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28 Jan 2024, 12:42 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Forcing someone to undergo a "full-transition" is just as much ignoring an individual's wishes as preventing them from transitioning.


It's better than not allowing any trans person to transition at all. You have two things that are the opposite of one another.


Has anyone in this thread advocated for not letting anyone transition? No. All people have said is that it's best to leave that decision to the patient and their medical professionals instead of having the government impose a one-size-fits-all solution.


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28 Jan 2024, 12:45 am

Yugoslav1945 wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Many trans-people are perfectly happy with just presenting as, and being recognized as, their preferred identity. Some want more than just presentation, and also want hormones, but not surgery. Some want surgery, but not hormones. Some want both, or all of the above. Some want something else altogether, and that's entirely up to them, and nobody else.

You can't mandate happiness.


A trans person who thinks they don't want to medically transition isn't really a trans person.

No true scotsman fallacy.

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Gender is not determined by sex organs.


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Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 28 Jan 2024, 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yugoslav1945
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28 Jan 2024, 12:46 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Yugoslav1945 wrote:
uncommondenominator wrote:
Forcing someone to undergo a "full-transition" is just as much ignoring an individual's wishes as preventing them from transitioning.


It's better than not allowing any trans person to transition at all. You have two things that are the opposite of one another.


Has anyone in this thread advocated for not letting anyone transition? No. All people have said is that it's best to leave that decision to the patient and their medical professionals instead of having the government impose a one-size-fits-all solution.


I never saw anyone say that they shouldn't transition. All I know is that the opposition says that it should be individual priority and not the priority of the government. But still I'm pushing for the government intervention as to help decrease suicide rates drastically among the trans population.


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28 Jan 2024, 12:48 am

If you force transpeople to transition who don’t want to, the suicide rates will increase.


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