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Jakki
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17 Feb 2024, 5:41 am

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I don’t believe in any deity. I was trying to demonstrate the faulty reasoning of my former faith.


lololzz thought that might have bern what you neant...was having fun ...sorry :wink: :heart:


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ToughDiamond
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17 Feb 2024, 4:07 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
There’s always a better solution, especially if you’re God and “all things are possible.”

I guess many of us these days just aren't irrational enough to be able to make sense of those stories and the whole sacrifice thing, if sense is the right word for the ancients' acceptance of them.

Apparently, sacrifice isn't a hunter-gatherer thing - it began with the cultivator cultures that followed. Mercifully, ritual killing isn't really done these days. It seems to have decayed into symbolic relics such as the Catholic thing where they eat a wafer and drink a drop of wine, and tell themselves that they're devouring Christ's blood and bones. And of course they keep re-telling the old stories. They do mild real-world sacrifices such as fasting, but I never saw a religionist doing real ritual slaughter. It's all in the mind.

Another mystery to me is why I bother to even think about religion any more. I suppose it's because I experienced some pressure to accept it when I was younger, and the pressure included some powerful propaganda, guilt-tripping and scaremongering. To this day, when I examine religious doctrine diligently and critically and present the logical arguments that occur to me, I still feel haunted by a feeling that I'm doing something wrong, and that only absolute proof that utterly debunked religion would free me of that feeling. Yet I don't feel at risk of going to hell. I guess that's because my Anglican indoctrinators didn't do hell.



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17 Feb 2024, 10:50 pm

I still think and talk about religion often because religion caused me a lot of harm. I even had a Scarlet Letter experience. Religion still causes so much harm in the world overall which is crazy to me. Sometimes I wonder how long it’s going to take for it to completely fade away. I think it will happen someday but maybe not for hundreds of years. I no longer feel guilty or anxious for leaving religion behind and being critical of religious ideologies, but it took me years to get to this point and a whole lot of reading. As a homeschooler, I wasn’t allowed to learn about evolution or anything that conflicted with their beliefs, so I had to diligently explore science and critical thinking on top of religion and the Bible as an adult. It was hard overcoming that initial fear to do the research because I was taught that Satan tries to mislead people through secular education, especially in the realms of science and philosophy.

I’ve come a long way, but it wasn’t easy. When I “graduated” high school, my math and English skills only went up to 6th or 7th grade because I had to teach myself out of lousy textbooks that were not meant for self-learners. My “tests” were always open book, and I never wrote a paper. My aunt who also homeschooled her kids said that she just wanted them educated enough to be able to read the Bible. The value that Christian fundamentalists place on stupidity disturbs me to no end, in part, because I’ve experienced it and know how harmful it can be. It makes it so hard for people to progress. If I hadn’t loved to read, I’d probably still be stuck in an abusive religion with my abusive husband.

Wow, I went extremely off-topic there. I guess my overall point is that I had to jump over a lot of hurdles to get to where I am today, and I don’t take any of it for granted. The constraints that religion puts on people boggles my mind. Don’t even get me started on the Amish. :lol:


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ToughDiamond
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18 Feb 2024, 3:08 pm

^
I probably shouldn't have diverged from the main topic. But it's been interesting to ponder why we don't simply dismiss outlandish religious claims in the same way as we might ignore silly claims about leprechauns. Of course there's no radical leprechaunist church messing with people's minds and with politics and education.

Studies show that religion is in decline, but I doubt I'll live to see it decline by much.

Hmm......isn't it smart of me to express regret at going off topic and then go off topic? I'll shut up now.



Honey69
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18 Feb 2024, 3:48 pm

There is some thought that the crucifixion story was adapted from Josephus

https://jewishromanworldjesus.com/?page_id=223


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ToughDiamond
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18 Feb 2024, 7:27 pm

Honey69 wrote:
There is some thought that the crucifixion story was adapted from Josephus

https://jewishromanworldjesus.com/?page_id=223

Yes that contains the interesting quote:

for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.

AnswersInGenesis made much of it without mentioning any suspicion that it could have been added by Christians.

The page you linked to says that without that "obvious Christian addition," most scholars judge the remainder to be authentic, though Wikipedia confines itself to this: Some modern scholars reject the authenticity of this passage in its present form, while most scholars nevertheless hold that it contains an authentic nucleus referencing the life and execution of Jesus by Pilate, which was then subject to supposed Christian interpolation or alteration. However, the exact nature and extent of the Christian addition remains unclear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_ ... _Flavianum

What I'd like to know is, how many scholars think the Josephus quote is authentic? Is there a consensus that it's an add-on, or is it merely controversial?

Meanwhile I have to content myself with my own idea that it would seem very strange for a Jew to say that the resurrection of Jesus happened. If he believed it, would he have remained a Jew? And why did he never write more about such a massive event?

".....Oh, by the way, Jesus came back from the dead. Anyway, enough of that trivial matter. Let me tell you about this virtuous woman Paulinus who was married to Saturninus......"



Honey69
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19 Feb 2024, 8:58 am

The specific crucifixion story by Josephus wasn't about Jesus--the Jewish rebellion against Rome occurred about a generation after Jesus' time.


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ToughDiamond
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19 Feb 2024, 1:38 pm

Honey69 wrote:
The specific crucifixion story by Josephus wasn't about Jesus--the Jewish rebellion against Rome occurred about a generation after Jesus' time.

I know there's a lot of other stuff in there about crucifixions. I'm just more interested in that particular quote from it which is about Jesus and the resurrection.



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20 Feb 2024, 4:36 pm

I believe that it did happen. Jesus died on the cross for us and than he was resurrected and called by God to come home two days later.


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Jakki
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21 Feb 2024, 1:27 am

^^^ Likes to hear people speak out in the face of Adversity ^^^ ......IMHO


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ezbzbfcg2
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21 Feb 2024, 1:40 am

Is it true about the Shroud of Turin? The image on the cloth could only be made with laser beams (or a supernatural force)?

Not saying I believe, only saying I find that fascinating. However it was made, it doesn't seem to have been conventionally possible at the time.



funeralxempire
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21 Feb 2024, 1:58 am

ezbzbfcg2 wrote:
Is it true about the Shroud of Turin? The image on the cloth could only be made with laser beams (or a supernatural force)?

Not saying I believe, only saying I find that fascinating. However it was made, it doesn't seem to have been conventionally possible at the time.


Quote:
The shroud's authenticity as a holy relic has been disputed even within the Catholic Church, and radiocarbon dating has shown it to be a medieval artifact, the image on which could be produced by differential exposure of a chemically prepared fabric to bright sunlight.


From the sounds of things, however it was made, it's not what it's purported (by some) to be.


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Honey69
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29 Feb 2024, 9:50 am

On her way to Heaven, the Virgin Mary dropped her girdle. You can still see it.

https://irenebrination.typepad.com/iren ... prato.html


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