What do you think of the Romani/Gypsy people?

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Honey69
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19 Feb 2024, 1:16 pm

I was just watching this video about the Romani in Bulgaria



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx91yRuZlrk

I don't think that I've ever encountered any in the USA, but they seem to be numerous in Turkey and in parts of Europe.

I gather that they tend to remain isolated from the majority populations where they live, and tend not to get involved in many of the economic and other activities of their host countries.

They do have some great music.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT4IufMeyYA

From what I understand, they've often been looked down upon (by some people) as thieves, vagrants and low-lifes.

Have you encountered any Romani? What is your impression? Should they be more fully assimilated, or should they retain their unique and separate ways of life?

A Bob Dylan song:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujgqOgMIwfA

I suppose another question--should they, like Jews, have their own homeland somewhere? The idea of a Jewish homeland got started at the beginning of the 20th Century. Has anyone ever thought of a Romani homeland?


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Bestiola
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19 Feb 2024, 2:22 pm

in the Balkan region they're typically viewed as the lowest of the lowest (now only immigrants can go lower), living in slum-like conditions, with little to no access to water, electricity etc. they rarely finish more than primary school or high school at best, especially women. they're expected to marry early and usually have a lot of children. you can see their villages with children wearing dirty clothes and barefooted but can be happy nonetheless, something like can be seen in poor African villages. if they try to break that typical pattern, get educated, live a more mainstream life and buy a more comfortable house they're met with discrimination from their own people but likewise from the other nationalities living there. so they change their surnames and pretend not to be one. there are cases of extreme violence among them, but also towards them. likewise, there are attempts to get them more educated and assimilated into the mainstream. there are scholarships for them and various initiatives. some do succeed, but many do not. there are gipsy studies in the Balkan area these days, so one can study two of their many dialects.

what I don't like about them is their treatment of children, especially when they're using them when begging or forcing them to beg, or neglecting them. you can see them being very aggressive and violent towards each other since they're met with mostly violence and aggression. yet, not all are like that. it happened to me that one gipsy woman wanted me to pay her to read her fortune. one other wanted some documents translated. one gipsy boy was in my class with me, he was nice, but others bullied him for being what he was. he stopped schooling after the fourth grade, I can't blame him. yet, whenever I saw him later he was very nice and polite to me, always greeting me since I was nice to him. he liked MC Hammer :P

periodically some other cases of bullying and shunning of gipsy children surface in the media. it can be very hard for them.



Last edited by Bestiola on 19 Feb 2024, 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Lost_dragon
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19 Feb 2024, 2:29 pm

OP, Are you familiar with the company Pontins? They got in a lot of trouble for banning people from their resorts based on surname in an attempt to discriminate against Irish Travellers in 2021.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... ore-target

Figured this story was relevant to this thread.


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Bestiola
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19 Feb 2024, 2:33 pm

forgot to mention that they also can be found in the centres for children with special needs - they lack parental support at home, so they end up going there. unfortunately, in huge numbers. I've met a few. they're very friendly and would do anything to get some attention and to make you play with them. one boy didn't ever have proper clean clothing, and told me he was bullied in his previous "normal" school. the other had lice, seemed that no one at home cared. she was 12, and couldn't calculate properly beyond 12, but was great at playing UNO.



Honey69
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19 Feb 2024, 4:23 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
OP, Are you familiar with the company Pontins? They got in a lot of trouble for banning people from their resorts based on surname in an attempt to discriminate against Irish Travellers in 2021.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... ore-target

Figured this story was relevant to this thread.


I never heard of them. I'm in the USA. There used to be a lot of racial discrimination, but things are mostly better. I'm not sure if Irish Travellers are a separate ethnicity, or if anyone who wanted to take up travelling was free to do so.


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Cash__
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19 Feb 2024, 8:20 pm

My wife's uncle was raised in a Romani community. He now lives in the US. He's got some interesting stories.



funeralxempire
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19 Feb 2024, 10:07 pm

Honey69 wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
OP, Are you familiar with the company Pontins? They got in a lot of trouble for banning people from their resorts based on surname in an attempt to discriminate against Irish Travellers in 2021.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... ore-target

Figured this story was relevant to this thread.


I never heard of them. I'm in the USA. There used to be a lot of racial discrimination, but things are mostly better. I'm not sure if Irish Travellers are a separate ethnicity, or if anyone who wanted to take up travelling was free to do so.



Irish Travellers aren't Romani, even if they have some social similarities.

Irish Travellers have been around since and as a result of the Cromwellian conquest.

Irish Travellers are one of many groups of indigenous European Travellers, distinct from the Romani.


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Bestiola
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20 Feb 2024, 4:18 am

some facts that might be of interest: in Romania, they were slaves for half a millenium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Romania

pal might be a loanword from Angloromani dialects, phral means brother:
Borrowed from Angloromani pal (“brother, friend”), from Romani phral (“brother”), from Sanskrit भ्रातृ (bhrātṛ, “brother”). Doublet of bhai, brother, frater and friar.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pal#Etymology

Charlie Chaplin was most likely a Gypsy:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2011/f ... y-heritage



Last edited by Bestiola on 20 Feb 2024, 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

cyberdad
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20 Feb 2024, 4:45 am

Rajasthan India, that's where Gypsies originally left



Lost_dragon
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20 Feb 2024, 5:51 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
OP, Are you familiar with the company Pontins? They got in a lot of trouble for banning people from their resorts based on surname in an attempt to discriminate against Irish Travellers in 2021.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... ore-target

Figured this story was relevant to this thread.


I never heard of them. I'm in the USA. There used to be a lot of racial discrimination, but things are mostly better. I'm not sure if Irish Travellers are a separate ethnicity, or if anyone who wanted to take up travelling was free to do so.



Irish Travellers aren't Romani, even if they have some social similarities.

Irish Travellers have been around since and as a result of the Cromwellian conquest.

Irish Travellers are one of many groups of indigenous European Travellers, distinct from the Romani.


Whilst this is true, they tend to be incorrectly referred to and thought of as gypsies in the UK. People think of them as gypsies when they are, in fact, not gypsies.

So, tangentially related to the topic of this thread if you will. I saw a man who was an Irish Traveller wear a 'I :heart: being a gypsy' shirt once.


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RetroGamer87
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20 Feb 2024, 6:36 am

I think their caravans are pretty neat. I wonder what's inside. Is it just a bed or do they have other stuff in there? :chin:


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Honey69
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20 Feb 2024, 8:51 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Irish Travellers aren't Romani, even if they have some social similarities.


Interesting. Back during the 1930s, there were hobos in the US, but they weren't a separate ethnicity.


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cyberdad
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20 Feb 2024, 3:52 pm

Both Bruce Springsteen and Fleetwood mac mention gypsies in their songs. Bruce wasn't so complimentary though. It's quite likely that the entire ensemble of musical instruments in European classical orchestras were in some way originated from musical instruments of wandering gypsies. Even classical dance.



funeralxempire
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20 Feb 2024, 4:09 pm

Lost_dragon wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Honey69 wrote:
Lost_dragon wrote:
OP, Are you familiar with the company Pontins? They got in a lot of trouble for banning people from their resorts based on surname in an attempt to discriminate against Irish Travellers in 2021.

https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north- ... ore-target

Figured this story was relevant to this thread.


I never heard of them. I'm in the USA. There used to be a lot of racial discrimination, but things are mostly better. I'm not sure if Irish Travellers are a separate ethnicity, or if anyone who wanted to take up travelling was free to do so.



Irish Travellers aren't Romani, even if they have some social similarities.

Irish Travellers have been around since and as a result of the Cromwellian conquest.

Irish Travellers are one of many groups of indigenous European Travellers, distinct from the Romani.


Whilst this is true, they tend to be incorrectly referred to and thought of as gypsies in the UK. People think of them as gypsies when they are, in fact, not gypsies.

So, tangentially related to the topic of this thread if you will. I saw a man who was an Irish Traveller wear a 'I :heart: being a gypsy' shirt once.


It's interesting how so many groups were drawn towards the itinerant lifestyle.


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blitzkrieg
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20 Feb 2024, 4:35 pm

There are some gypsies in the area that I live in that seem to pass by every so often. I don't know if they are Romani or what but they have never given me any trouble.



cyberdad
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21 Feb 2024, 3:20 am

blitzkrieg wrote:
There are some gypsies in the area that I live in that seem to pass by every so often. I don't know if they are Romani or what but they have never given me any trouble.


The UK has travellers as well, they roam around in painted horse/buggies like gypsy caravans of old.
But I am not sure they are actual gypsies though.