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naturalplastic
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18 Apr 2024, 3:43 pm

RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
DoniiMann wrote:
Here in Australia, I think just jacking up the price has helped. When I quit, about twenty years ago, a 50g pack of Drum was about $40. Now it's about $200. I still miss smoking, but I'd never take it up again, just because of price. Now smoking is so uncommon, I can't even find someone if I want to passive smoke.


I never smoked tobacco. But I used to sell cigarettes to customers of a drug store, and now I count inventory of tobacco products in stores. So Ive seen how the price has gone up here in the US too over the years. In the seventies a pack was 60 cents and a carton of ten packs was 4.50. Now packs range from seven to 12 dollars. And cartons can be a hundred dollars.

Our convenience stores tend to be run by South Asian or Somali immigrants. During one inventory I overheard the corporate guy telling the brown skinned store preprioter that "your sales are low, but normally tobacco sales would save you. But nowadays demand for tobacco is so low that even your tobacco sales are not enough to save you."

Poor guy. Hard working. But now he is ruined because...he cant sell Americans cancer sticks anymore! Happy for Americans in general. Sad for him. Lol!


It's always Ammmmurrriccaaa against the world lol :lol:


Huh?

Thats not my takeaway from the incident.

But that can be an issue.

Back in the Reagan/H.W. Bush Eighties Thailand tried to make its country tobacco free but thwarting imports of US tobacco products. And the American Tobacco Lobby went apeshit and pressured the US govt "retaliate against Thai products". However the secretary of Health C. Everett Koop pointed out that that "would be the height of hypocrisy. How can we get other countries to cooperate with us on our 'war on drugs' if we bully them into buying our drugs". Or to that effect. His wisdom prevailed and we didnt beat up Thailand.

Dont get me started on Britain's 19th Century "Opium War" with China.



RedDeathFlower13
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18 Apr 2024, 3:57 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
RedDeathFlower13 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
DoniiMann wrote:
Here in Australia, I think just jacking up the price has helped. When I quit, about twenty years ago, a 50g pack of Drum was about $40. Now it's about $200. I still miss smoking, but I'd never take it up again, just because of price. Now smoking is so uncommon, I can't even find someone if I want to passive smoke.


I never smoked tobacco. But I used to sell cigarettes to customers of a drug store, and now I count inventory of tobacco products in stores. So Ive seen how the price has gone up here in the US too over the years. In the seventies a pack was 60 cents and a carton of ten packs was 4.50. Now packs range from seven to 12 dollars. And cartons can be a hundred dollars.

Our convenience stores tend to be run by South Asian or Somali immigrants. During one inventory I overheard the corporate guy telling the brown skinned store preprioter that "your sales are low, but normally tobacco sales would save you. But nowadays demand for tobacco is so low that even your tobacco sales are not enough to save you."

Poor guy. Hard working. But now he is ruined because...he cant sell Americans cancer sticks anymore! Happy for Americans in general. Sad for him. Lol!


It's always Ammmmurrriccaaa against the world lol :lol:


Huh?

Thats not my takeaway from the incident.

But that can be an issue.

Back in the Reagan/H.W. Bush Eighties Thailand tried to make its country tobacco free but thwarting imports of US tobacco products. And the American Tobacco Lobby went apeshit and pressured the US govt "retaliate against Thai products". However the secretary of Health C. Everett Koop pointed out that that "would be the height of hypocrisy. How can we get other countries to cooperate with us on our 'war on drugs' if we bully them into buying our drugs". Or to that effect. His wisdom prevailed and we didnt beat up Thailand.

Dont get me started on Britain's 19th Century "Opium War" with China.


...it was just a joke. I was laughing at the idea of these stores losing business because Americans are starting to give up tobacco products which have been responsible for killing millions of people.

I guess the irony of the "war on drugs" thing was lost on me. :shrug: But still as a non-smoker who's also against drinking and drugs as a personal choice I'm glad to hear that many Americans are giving up tobacco.


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naturalplastic
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18 Apr 2024, 4:20 pm

Well my take away was mixed emotions.

I feel for the guy struggling to make a living.

But I am delighted to learn that Americans really are coming to their senses, and are giving up tobacco ...in ways that are so measurable that...it drives people out of business.

Europeans had consumed beer and wine for millenia when Columbus discovered America. And the indigenous Americans had consumed tobacco (in strict ritualistic ways) for millenia. But neither race had social mores and customs to govern the consumption of the other race's drug.

So by the late 20th Century the leading causes of death on Indian reservations were alcoholism and cirrosis of the liver. And the leading cause of death of White Americans were lung cancer and emphezema. Each race succumbed to the other's vice.

Makes ya wonder how we got into this mess.


https://youtu.be/_XDxAzVEbN4



RedDeathFlower13
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18 Apr 2024, 4:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Well my take away was mixed emotions.

I feel for the guy struggling to make a living.

But I am delighted to learn that Americans really are coming to their senses, and are giving up tobacco ...in ways that are so measurable that...it drives people out of business.

Europeans had consumed beer and wine for millenia when Columbus discovered America. And the indigenous Americans had consumed tobacco (in strict ritualistic ways) for millenia. But neither race had social mores and customs to govern the consumption of the other race's drug.

So by the late 20th Century the leading causes of death on Indian reservations were alcoholism and cirrosis of the liver. And the leading cause of death of White Americans were lung cancer and emphezema. Each race succumbed to the other's vice.

Makes ya wonder how we got into this mess.


https://youtu.be/_XDxAzVEbN4


It honestly really IS kind of weird how this all tends to happen. Try to do something good for the world (like getting people to quit tobacco) and there often seems to be a bad consequence linked to the good intention (like driving these poor storeowners out of business when they're just trying to make a living...)

I'm sure there's a fitting quote for that out there somewhere... but yeah, it's depressing knowing that even our best intentions can have the most terrible consequences. :|


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naturalplastic
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18 Apr 2024, 5:26 pm

"The road to Hell is often paved with good intensions".

Thats the quote you're looking for.



RedDeathFlower13
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18 Apr 2024, 5:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
"The road to Hell is often paved with good intensions".

Thats the quote you're looking for.


Ah yes, that's it! Very wise quote. :)


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19 Apr 2024, 6:02 am

Personally, I wish for one of two things:

1. An immediate global ban on all tobacco and tobacco products.  No exceptions and no excuses.

2. Someone would develop a bio-weapon that would target only the tobacco plant; either rendering it sterile, removing its ability to produce nicotine, or killing it outright.

I have known many people who became tobacco junkies in their teens, only to helplessly watch them wither and die before they could even begin to enjoy their retirements -- many did not live long enough to see their children grow up, get married, and start families of their own.

And second-hand smoke?  I deal with asthma and bronchitis on a daily basis because my parents (may they rest in peace) each smoked up to two packs a day for the 18 years I lived with them.  My younger siblings have similar health issues.


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Fnord
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19 Apr 2024, 6:03 am

naturalplastic wrote:
"The road to Hell is often paved with good intensions".

Another good quote: "Smokers Suck Butts".


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The_Walrus
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19 Apr 2024, 6:19 am

Fnord wrote:
Personally, I wish for one of two things:

1. An immediate global ban on all tobacco and tobacco products.  No exceptions and no excuses.

2. Someone would develop a bio-weapon that would target only the tobacco plant; either rendering it sterile, removing its ability to produce nicotine, or killing it outright.

The trick is separating tobacco and nicotine. Tobacco without nicotine is unappealling, and nicotine without tobacco is much lower risk.



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19 Apr 2024, 9:26 am

I switched from smoking to vaping and nicotine pouches.
Tobacco isn’t that hard to grow but since most people can’t grow a tomato plant I doubt many people succeed.
Vaping is cheaper, I can refill my vape at around 10$ a month.


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blitzkrieg
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19 Apr 2024, 1:39 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I switched from smoking to vaping and nicotine pouches.
Tobacco isn’t that hard to grow but since most people can’t grow a tomato plant I doubt many people succeed.
Vaping is cheaper, I can refill my vape at around 10$ a month.


Vaping is indeed cheaper, though I think I read somewhere recently that it is going to be taxed more in the future, or something like that, thus increasing its price?



ToughDiamond
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19 Apr 2024, 2:35 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I switched from smoking to vaping and nicotine pouches.
Tobacco isn’t that hard to grow but since most people can’t grow a tomato plant I doubt many people succeed.
Vaping is cheaper, I can refill my vape at around 10$ a month.

Don't tell the government. They'll tax it till you're as poor as a tobacco smoker, and tell you they're doing it to protect your health. They're doing that to a degree in the UK right now.

I'd love to acquire a bulk bottle of very strong nicotine - the stuff the trade uses to make the diluted little refills they sell to the public at inflated prices. I calculated that one of those would last a lifetime and cost almost nothing. Then it would only remain to find a way round the cost of replacement atomisers. It's wise to replace them quite often before they get filthy and start churning out unhealthy combustion products. And they don't last long anyway.

I looked into tobacco growing a long time ago. I got the impression that it wasn't difficult to grow as such, but that curing it was quite an art. I heard there was a co-operative that would cure tobacco for people in a fairly cost-effective way. All tax-free as long as you only had a pound or two of the stuff processed. Tax on mainstream retail tobacco products in the UK is colossal.



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20 Apr 2024, 7:20 am

Fnord wrote:
Personally, I wish for one of two things:

1. An immediate global ban on all tobacco and tobacco products.  No exceptions and no excuses.

How well is a ban on illegal drugs working? How well did prohibition of alcohol work? Banning substances that people want and seek out does not work and creates terrible social problems and some of the worst criminality.



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20 Apr 2024, 7:52 am

I just find it frustrating that anyone is bothering to debate it as a real issue.

As if it has anything to do with health.

As if this government would even be considering it, for one single second, if the tobacco industry wasn't already taking it's last gasps. Because if it was still making serious money and had a future, they'd all be shareholders, taking lobbyist bungs, making deals to be on the board of executives after their politics careers end and standing proudly for the rights of adults to be making their own decisions while whinging about the nanny state.

As if it were to do with anything other than a quick, cheap way to make it look like Rishi Sunak has accomplished anything in his time as Prime Minister. It's a very transparent con.


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naturalplastic
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20 Apr 2024, 8:33 am

How is vaping any less harmful than smoking the old fashioned way?



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20 Apr 2024, 8:47 am

naturalplastic wrote:
How is vaping any less harmful than smoking the old fashioned way?

I dont think that question have been able to be answered by the medical and scientific establishment because people have not been vaping long enough for a long term.We should know decades from now for sure maybe sooner.I would not be too shocked if it was at least as bad because of formaldyde and heavy metals.Thats just the thing I heard.I dont know if its true or not but I dont want to risk it so that I dont vape.I only smoke a few cigars on my bday and thatsto the only smoking I do all year but I am a tobacco smoker.I just smoke maybe 1 to 4 days all year tops and its for my bday.I stopped smoking cigarettes years and years ago but I estimate I have only had a little more than 2 packs total my whole life.