Ten Commandments from Judaism help me understand

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FranzOren
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22 May 2024, 8:37 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
On the contrary. Commandments four through ten are all fine, and are rather universal, and not even peculiar to the ten commandments.

4)Honor mom and dad. Sure why not?

Not all parents are worthy of honor. As a mom, I respect my kid. In my opinion, honor and respect should go both ways, but the Old Testament is more about obeying authority.

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But even four through ten could be collapsed down into one commandment...indeed, according to Hillel, the entire Torah (old Testament) can be collapsed down that same one three sentence statement: "Dont mistreat others. That is the whole Torah. The rest is just explanation."

The Torah encourages mistreatment (e.g. stoning and other inhumane punishments for insignificant behavior) in a lot of places. It’s not a great source book when it comes to morality, but it’s interesting from a historical perspective.



There has to be common sense that you don't punish people that way in civilized countries, that I understand.



ToughDiamond
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22 May 2024, 9:03 pm

They wouldn't work for me. Not enough nuance, too limited in scope, and some of them are irrelevent to my conviction that morality is about people:
You shall have no other gods before Me. I don't, but I see no harm in it as such.
You shall not make idols. Ditto.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. That seems to be interpreted as not saying "oh god..." as an expletive, and also as not saying "I swear to god that......" - I don't bother refraining from the former unless there's a theist around who might be offended, and as I don't think there are any gods, I don't think it does any harm otherwise. I try not to tell lies anyway, unless it's the only way out of harm for self or others, and I'm not in the habit of swearing to god, so as it happens I'm very unlikely to breach that one, but I don't see it as any more wrong than lying.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. I gather this is about not working on Sunday, though it used to be Saturday. It's a good idea to rest up, but I don't think such a rigid rule is the best way to do it, and society's expectations don't really allow me to do it like that even if I particularly wanted to. If there's an incoming tornado on Sunday I'll probably work to save myself and my loved ones.
Honor your father and your mother. Good idea if it just means not being too horrible to them, but when mine made certain mistakes it did more good than harm for me to defy them. It doesn't address the problem of what you do about a bad parent.
You shall not murder. Mostly I'd go along with that, but for example murdering the leaders of the Third Reich would likely have done a lot more good than harm.
You shall not commit adultery. I'm a monogamist. I've been technically adulterous once or twice but only after leaving the spouse and seen the relationship as irreconcilable. Wasn't proud or ashamed of it. I hear it's interpreted by some as including "don't fornicate." I think that may be a wise idea, but in my case when it's happened it was always at our own risk, nobody else's, and I've never slept with anybody without the strong intentions of a permanent and faithful relationship with them. To me sex is about how people feel about each other and not whether they've been through a ceremony. Nobody's business but theirs.
You shall not steal. Generally I agree but I think there are exceptions. If I was starving and somebody else had a lot more food than they need, I wouldn't see myself as wrong to grab some of it. If I could with impunity steal 99% of Zuckerberg's billions and distribute it among myself and other people less well off, I think I'd do it. He still wouldn't suffer any absolute hardship. He'd still have at least $500,000.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Broadly agree, and it's a dirty trick for sure, but there may be isolated cases where perjury allows a more just result, for example to nail a very dangerous person who can't otherwise be neutralised, or to protect a good person from being wrongly nailed. Dishonesty can of course be a very powerful weapon, and where it is, its use is to be considered with great caution.
You shall not covet. That's a feeling. I wouldn't try to eradicate it or to be 100% content with inequality, and I suspect that we have here a demand to give up striving for greater social justice, which I'm not willing to sign up to. In fact I feel guilty for not doing more about inequality. OTOH too much coveting might lead to bad things, so I think it's important not to let it rip. I'm beginning to see why religious fundamentalists are so against socialism.



ToughDiamond
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22 May 2024, 9:05 pm

Shouldn't this topic be moved to PPR?



FranzOren
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23 May 2024, 7:16 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
Shouldn't this topic be moved to PPR?


What is that?



naturalplastic
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23 May 2024, 7:51 am

The "Politics, Philosophy, and Religiion" section.



FranzOren
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23 May 2024, 8:13 am

naturalplastic wrote:
The "Politics, Philosophy, and Religiion" section.


I think it belongs there, I need some help. How do move it there?



Cornflake
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23 May 2024, 8:29 am

Moved to PPR as requested.


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FranzOren
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23 May 2024, 8:34 am

Cornflake wrote:
Moved to PPR as requested.


Thank you so much, I didn't know where to post it, as it's also partially related to my mental health, I am sorry



Cornflake
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23 May 2024, 8:38 am

No problem. :thumright:


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ToughDiamond
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23 May 2024, 11:37 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
You shall not steal. Generally I agree but I think there are exceptions. If I was starving and somebody else had a lot more food than they need, I wouldn't see myself as wrong to grab some of it. If I could with impunity steal 99% of Zuckerberg's billions and distribute it among myself and other people less well off, I think I'd do it. He still wouldn't suffer any absolute hardship. He'd still have at least $500,000.

Please excuse my mistake. Zuckerberg would have $500,000,000 of course, not a measly $500,000.



FranzOren
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23 May 2024, 11:41 am

ToughDiamond wrote:
ToughDiamond wrote:
You shall not steal. Generally I agree but I think there are exceptions. If I was starving and somebody else had a lot more food than they need, I wouldn't see myself as wrong to grab some of it. If I could with impunity steal 99% of Zuckerberg's billions and distribute it among myself and other people less well off, I think I'd do it. He still wouldn't suffer any absolute hardship. He'd still have at least $500,000.

Please excuse my mistake. Zuckerberg would have $500,000,000 of course, not a measly $500,000.


That's true, he owns Meta even