Page 1 of 2 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

babybird
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Nov 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 69,574
Location: UK

08 Jul 2024, 6:41 am

Is it just me or does it seem ludicrous to actually want a far right government

I don't get why anyone would vote for this

Please feel free to educate me because it baffles my head


_________________
We have existence


Rossall
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Oct 2021
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,647
Location: Manchester, UK

08 Jul 2024, 7:20 am

I personally would never vote for Farage even though I think immigration is too high. I think people see asylum seekers being put up in hotels at a cost of millions of pounds and thousands stuck on council house waiting lists, 25 people going for every private flat and they get a bit annoyed. There's just too many people in the country now for the NHS, housing, GPs, schools etc. to cope with.

Also people with money want more of it so are more likely to want the kind of tax cuts Reform UK are offering.

Hopefully Labour will do a decent job and Farage will fade back into obscurity.


_________________
Diagnosed with ADHD - Inattentive type and undiagnosed aspergers.

Interests: music (especially 80s), computers, electronics, amateur radio, soccer (Liverpool).


Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,421
Location: .

08 Jul 2024, 7:42 am

To the centee left we have Socialism, and further left we have Communism and keep going we end up with Marxism and then a dictatorship, as I have been examining where both extremes end up.
If we keep going right, we end up in a type of capitalistic monopolistic patriotistic rule which sort of resembles a monarchy (Not saying it is), but ironically ends up being similar to the far left as if one has gone full circle and round again!

The issue is that the extremes that past leaders have taken such as Hitler and others are described as far left by the right and far right by the left, but if one examines their actual individual type of rule and how they got to rule and how far they went, they have elements of far right but stand by the fundamentals of their rule as being far left.
We need the rough centre ground in democratic politics and thisis ONLY obtained by allowing BOTH the far right and the far left from expressing their views. If we restrict free speech on the right, we start sliipping towards the equally dangerous far left, and if we restrict the far left, likewize we end up slipping towards the far right.
It is vitally important for a democracy to work effectively by allowing all views to come forth. The natural democratic voting proces will then ensure we end up either slightly right or slightly left of the centre.

Though if we are left we do not like the right, and though wear right we do not like the left, what we ave done in the UK and the EU was a highly stupid and potentially dangerous decision by preventing the far right from airing their views in parliament. One may "Think" of the Conservatives or Reform as being far right butin reality they are centre right (In other words closer to the centre than right is) and Labour used to be centre left but slipped into the centre to gain votes when Blair came to power, but then when the started to eliminate far right views by law, the shifted the centre to the centre left and became the mid left to enot too far off having a communistic approach which is why we now have communism ways mixing with what was once a non-communistic political system. (GCSE's in schools are communistic by nature where reasoning and brainwashing techniques a used to replace the traditional 0 level dicipline if one had done wrong. While these actually came in under Thatcher, they directly follow a USA/Russian agenda where during what is known as the "Cold war decoy", both the Rusian and American leaders in their day were sharing notes in how to combine Communism with what used to be known as the democratic free world, so that both the Russia, China and the west could come closer together for future world peace (Which was done after WW2 because they realized how they needed to find ways to eliminate extremes for the future generations).
The problem with this new way forward (Which is now as old as our parents or parents parents by now), is that those on the fringes of society such as many of us autistic folk, don't do well in communism, as we can't groupthink, so the more communistic the western education has became, the more noticable that autism has become, as during the past under the old education system those on the autism spectrum where autism was less physically obvious now under this new system began to start to have a hard time where in the past when individuality was encouraged and out of the box thinking gave one extra marks, we used to be more appreciated and celebrated for our differences.

If one thing has very much been noticable in recent years is that the communistically brainwashed folk in the west turn to the ones who stand out who dare think differently, and actually bully them claiming they should be more tollerant towards their modern ways when reality tollerance should be the other way round in most circumstances! Communistic brainwashing is actually clever by turning the situation around. Example is a class where one brilliant autistic child who would under te old system be celebrated is now told off and made to feel embarissedby the teachers and the class through "Making them feel inadiquate" when they could never achieve the same results, and so the tallented child is forced to subdue their tallents and try to become like everyone else, which is why they have such a hard time as they are not like everyone else!).
Similar issues with the media brainwashing society and while may on the spectrum are either highly resistant or highly suseptable to brainwashing techniques, one will notice that amongst autistic folk there will be a far greater divide in extremes than NT folk. Example, some may notice straight away the brainwashing techniques used in the media, and se straight through it and notice what they are trying to hide as they see the patterns and what lead to these patterns and so are able by simple elimination to work out what is going on, while others onthe spectrum lap up every word and don't even question what is true as "It has to be true as it was shown on the news!"
It is rather like the Trump/Biden divide noticed on this site! :D

Reality is though, as an autistic individual, one should appreciate the views of the left and the right if one is on the spectrum as one is trying to work out how everyone thinks and why they think like they do, as normally by being autistic, one is having to natrally question other peoples thoughts to try and work out why they think that way, which brings me back to the reason why you asked this question in this thread Babybird! :D Because your mind is questioning why someone would not think like you do!


_________________
Last edited by Mountain Goat on Febuary 31st, 2026, 12:42 am, edited 126 time in total.


zzyzzy
Butterfly
Butterfly

User avatar

Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 13

08 Jul 2024, 8:18 am

I have a special interest in politics. I can speak for what is happening in the United States. The United States for a long time was a country where 80-90 percent of the population were White. Up until 2009, every president was a White male, none were openly gay. Then in 2008, Americans elected the first Black president. To much of the White population, this was alarming. Their White privilege was under attack. Even more alarming, 2016 was the first year where births of non-Hispanic Whites was less than 50 percent. Births of people of color has been greater than non-Hispanic White babies ever since, and around the year 2042, Whites will become a minority if present trends continue.

Another factor is that Christianity was by far the most popular religion. However, the country is becoming both more secular and people of other religions such as Islam is becoming more popular.

Conservatives in the United States have been worrying about these trends since the 1970s. They created a vast conservative infrastructure, consisting of Think Tanks, Conservative non-profits, and media. Conservatives took over the Republican Party, and Republican presidents promised Corporations and billionaires tax cuts and deregulation. Conservative billionaires purchased newspapers, TV networks, and social media. These networks, such as Fox TV spew out conservative propaganda. Other media controlled by corporations want their tax cuts so will also support conservative policies. Even the minority of more progressive media have a both siderism complex. Because these networks feel the need to present both sides of the story, with conservatives moving to the extreme right, the middle has shifted to the right, thus even liberal media has shifted to the right.

Religious fundamentalists by nature due to their hierarchal philosophy, are drawn to conservative philosophy and a literal interpretation of the Bible. Whatever brand of conservatism, there is someone at the top of the hierarchy. For some, it is the president, for the religious it is God, the man of the family, or the pastor of a church, and for libertarians, the capitalist billionaire. Hence, fascism is a marriage between the fundamentalist religious, the racists, and the wealthy.

The White working class are receptive to the fascist message because they are worried that immigrants from non-White countries are going to take their jobs away, the billionaires fund the fascist movement, and the religious right are drawn to fascism on their promises to fight the culture wars. Fascism grows because propoganda from the corporate media is left unchallenged. That is why Donald Trump is favored to become the next president of the United States once again.



naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,704
Location: temperate zone

08 Jul 2024, 1:53 pm

In Britain (maybe in Europe in general) voting far right is rightly perceved as voting against your interests if your working class.

But in the US, as zzyzzy said, we have race, religion, and culture war issues that cloud over class warfare issues. And everyone in America thinks theyre a future millionaire anyway so class struggle doesnt work the way it does in European politics.

We Americans are all certain that we will be rich enough to contribute to the Clinton Foundation someday...because each one of us has a degree...from Trump University. :lol:

Though in France culture war issues, Xenophobia, and both Islamophobia AND antisemitism are coming out of the woodwork (as we can see in the rise of La Pen).



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,829

08 Jul 2024, 2:22 pm

The meaning of the word "far right" has changed

When i was younger it meant a Nazi skinhead nutcase into Hitler etc..

Now its used to describe anyone wanting to limit immigration to reasonable numbers or not supporting globalism.

So they watered down the word far right to use as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with them


_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

- George Bernie Shaw


Last edited by carlos55 on 08 Jul 2024, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 27,093
Location: Right over your left shoulder

08 Jul 2024, 2:23 pm

babybird wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem ludicrous to actually want a far right government

I don't get why anyone would vote for this

Please feel free to educate me because it baffles my head


Among reasons, because right wingers threaten to make life harder for all the people that voter thinks are lazy, evil or not actually welcome; right wing movements promise to protect those people from all the folks who scare them.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 27,093
Location: Right over your left shoulder

08 Jul 2024, 2:24 pm

carlos55 wrote:
The meaning of the word "far right" has changed

When i was younger it meant a Nazi skinhead nutcase into Hitler etc..

Now its used to describe anyone wanting to limit immigration to reasonable numbers or not supporting globalism.

So they watered down the word far right to use as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with them


Xenophobic blocs have always been referred to as right wing though.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,829

08 Jul 2024, 4:59 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
The meaning of the word "far right" has changed

When i was younger it meant a Nazi skinhead nutcase into Hitler etc..

Now its used to describe anyone wanting to limit immigration to reasonable numbers or not supporting globalism.

So they watered down the word far right to use as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with them


Xenophobic blocs have always been referred to as right wing though.


Right wing used to mean conservative far right used to mean racist nazi loon.

Now the term is used against almost any conservative.

Margret Thatcher would be considered far right today maybe Ronald Reagan not that I supported thatcher but still it’s getting ridiculous.

Italy has a far right gov no one is that bothered about that it’s hardly mentioned.

What happens when real nazis come through when the word is watered down, if the word becomes meaningless where is the warning.


_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

- George Bernie Shaw


cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,592

08 Jul 2024, 5:17 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Xenophobic blocs have always been referred to as right wing though.

How do you explain the Italians voting in a far right government?



cyberdad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,592

08 Jul 2024, 5:19 pm

carlos55 wrote:
Italy has a far right gov no one is that bothered about that it’s hardly mentioned.


Yep, Meloni has actually turned moderate now she's in power, trump's act of appointing supreme court judges makes him more far right.



Mountain Goat
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 13 May 2019
Gender: Male
Posts: 14,421
Location: .

08 Jul 2024, 5:19 pm

babybird wrote:
Is it just me or does it seem ludicrous to actually want a far right government

I don't get why anyone would vote for this

Please feel free to educate me because it baffles my head


OI was just thinking to what was said in the past by my Dad who was a Labour supporter before he abandoned voting for Labour when the new Labour switched sides under Tony Blair, but one thing I want to point out is that there was no far right party in the election. There were two centre right parties both being closer to the centre than right. The same as I did not notice a far left party. Far left is allowed but under the laws we have, the far right is no longer allowed to be represented which has shifted the centre to the left so the Conservatives and Reform are actually close to the new centre. Labour is actually now slightly right (Compared to the old political system) these days compared to the past as Tony Blair took what he called New Labour across to the right which is why there is very little difference between the two main parties in policy other than one overspends and the other cuts back. The actual policies are fairly similar apart from some minor details.
It was very different in the past before Blair moved the political goalposts.


_________________
Last edited by Mountain Goat on Febuary 31st, 2026, 12:42 am, edited 126 time in total.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 34,704
Location: temperate zone

08 Jul 2024, 6:12 pm

carlos55 wrote:
The meaning of the word "far right" has changed

When i was younger it meant a Nazi skinhead nutcase into Hitler etc..

Now its used to describe anyone wanting to limit immigration to reasonable numbers or not supporting globalism.

So they watered down the word far right to use as a weapon against anyone who disagrees with them


Utter nonsense.

Obama deported more immigrants than any POTUS before him. And Biden strives to "limit immigration to reasonable...".

What makes you "far right" is lying about immigrants and making them scapegoats (much like Hitler scapegoated Jews), and lying that your predecessors were all for "open borders" and spouting tin hat hysteria about "replacement theory".



funeralxempire
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 39
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 27,093
Location: Right over your left shoulder

08 Jul 2024, 9:26 pm

cyberdad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Xenophobic blocs have always been referred to as right wing though.

How do you explain the Italians voting in a far right government?


Just because Italian diaspora has dealt with xenophobia doesn't mean some Italians within Italy can't be xenophobic.

carlos55 wrote:
Right wing used to mean conservative far right used to mean racist nazi loon.

Now the term is used against almost any conservative.

Margret Thatcher would be considered far right today maybe Ronald Reagan not that I supported thatcher but still it’s getting ridiculous.

Italy has a far right gov no one is that bothered about that it’s hardly mentioned.

What happens when real nazis come through when the word is watered down, if the word becomes meaningless where is the warning.


Yes, Ronald Reagan and Margret Thatcher would be considered far-right and both of them are moderate in places relative to many self-professed conservatives currently. Conservatives in many places have become more extreme and folks like Reagan and Thatcher helped with shifting the Overton window.

People who are actively working to shift the Overton window are likely to be referred to as 'far-' whatever, even if an argument can be made that they're less extreme than some radical figures you might name. This isn't limited to the right. I've spent my whole life hearing milquetoast social democrats labelled as radical communists. I notice you're either ignoring that, have failed to notice it or hopefully have just failed to mention it.

Why aren't people who promise to dismantle government far-right, even if they're a fundamentally a different strain of far-right compared to fascists? Worse, those two blocs often seem to find common ground even if economic survival of the fittest appeals to them for different reasons.


_________________
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas, this is part of our strategy” —Netanyahu
戦争ではなく戦争と戦う
The core principle of conservatism is "Rules protect, but do not bind me. They bind, but do not protect you."


Nades
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 8 Jan 2017
Age: 1933
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,913
Location: wales

09 Jul 2024, 2:04 am

I noticed people go further right in response to a large chunk going further and further to the left.

It's probably a way of slamming the breaks on and hopefully ending up more in the centre. France is currently a mess.



carlos55
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 5 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,829

09 Jul 2024, 6:55 am

I found especially in the UK election they were constantly crying wolf - politicians and media , far right here, far right there until everyone becomes de-sensitised over it.

Once people become desensitised and stop believing they will start rebelling against what they are told.

Then you’ll end up with real nazis in charge because no one can spot the difference.


_________________
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

- George Bernie Shaw