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SailorsGuy12
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11 Aug 2024, 5:06 pm

Matthew 5:38

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...You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also;…


I think it's crock sometimes. I don't want to have everything taken away from me by evil people, turning the other cheek and forgiving others should have it's limits. What do others think?


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bee33
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11 Aug 2024, 5:32 pm

Turning the other cheek doesn't mean being a doormat or letting other people take advantage of you. To assume that is to assume that only violence and aggression can solve problems. Turning the other cheek is being the bigger person who sees the bigger picture and doesn't escalate violence with more violence. It's a position of strength and kindness, not weakness.

True, it's not always possible or practical. We do what we can.



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11 Aug 2024, 5:48 pm

Ancient wisdom: The best battle won is the battle not fought.

If your enemies are not worth it, do not hurt them.

Use your words, not your fists.

If they make an ass of themselves in public to get to you, do not stop them.


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11 Aug 2024, 11:49 pm

I will assume such statement shouldn't be interpreted too literally.


I think... It's more to do with breaking cycles and not perpetuating them.
If not violence, then abuse or whatever constitutes as sin.

There's forgiveness, there's walking away, there's actually letting them get what they want.
But act itself is in discretion depending on the situation.


It's not merely doing nothing, being dormant, or enabling. That's still being 'in-character'.

But more like... Not feeding into whatever perpetrators beliefs.
Like... Non-reaction or breaking whatever character the perpetrator is expecting.


And yes, it's easier said than done.
I don't think it's as simple as engaging active pacifism, but that's the recommendation.


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Nades
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12 Aug 2024, 11:16 am

People only have two cheeks.



lostonearth35
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12 Aug 2024, 11:34 am

Technically, people have four cheeks. The other two are further down south. :lol:



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12 Aug 2024, 12:39 pm

Both Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were deeply influenced by the principle of "turning the other cheek," and they integrated it into their philosophies of nonviolent resistance.

Gandhi adopted the concept of ahimsa (nonviolence) and Satyagraha (truth force or soul force), which were grounded in the idea of responding to violence and oppression without resorting to violence in return. He believed that nonviolence was not just a tactic but a powerful moral stance that could lead to true change and justice.

Dr. King, inspired by Gandhi and the teachings of Jesus, also embraced nonviolence as the cornerstone of the Civil Rights Movement in the United States. He believed that responding to hatred and violence with love and nonviolent resistance was not only morally superior but also more effective in the long run. King's approach aimed to win over the hearts and minds of opponents and to bring about social change through peaceful means.

For both leaders, the idea of "turning the other cheek" was far from being a "crock"—it was a guiding principle that shaped their approaches to fighting injustice and inspired movements that made significant, lasting impacts.


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12 Aug 2024, 4:48 pm

I'm curious how Genghis Khan would have responded to non-violent resistance.

I anticipate it would involve a whole lot of violence, unless he had reason to fear that his use of force would provoke an overwhelming violent response from those who sympathize with the non-violent resistance.

I like non-violence, but I believe it works best when it's backed by the option to use force. MLK's approach worked because people like Malcolm X became the alternative if MLK failed.


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aghogday
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13 Aug 2024, 5:56 pm



Yes, 'Turn the Other Cheek' Is A Nice Platitude
Yet Reality Bites; Particularly, When You Are in
A Huge Metro Area Dancing Hall Bar And An Ignorant

Drunk Dude Decides to Attack You, And Before You
Even Have a Word to Think, You Have Him All

Succumbed in

A Choke Hold
Yet Not too Tight
to Kill Thank Goodness...

Meh, Where i Live is Very Peaceful,
Over Here in 'Trump Town USA;' In Fact,
i'm Glad The Magic PassWord Is 'Jesus' to

Avoid Most Any Public Confrontation as Long
As You are the Fastest Draw to Quote Peaceful Loving Verses...

Yes Dear Lord, You Rarely Come across Anyone Where i Live

Who Doesn't
Have a 'Personal
Jesus' as Best FRiEnD...

Simple Solution, at Least in my
Case, To Avoid Any Potential Choke Holds
And continue to Turn the Other Cheek With

Any Potential Strife With the MaGiC PassWord of 'Jesus;'

Yes, Just
Avoid Where
The Drunks Hang Out...

Problem Solved, at Least
Where the MaGiC PassWord Still Exists...

Other than that, Ya Really Have to find Some
Kind of Meditative Practice, Regulating Emotions,
Integrating Senses, to Tame the Potential Explosive Shadow Within...

As Our Emotions; Yes, Our Feelings and Senses in Synergy as Science
Currently Shows, Precede And Direct Most of Our Actions That We come Up

With Reasons to Defend,
After The 'Just Do Of It;'

What Bliss; So Peaceful, Balancing Life;
Regulating Emotions, Integrating
Senses, Much Less Likely to

Explode at the Smallest Slight...

Other than that in Florida Everyone
Gets to 'Pack Heat,' if They Can Afford
It, and Stand Their Ground; As Many REAL

Warriors of the World Will Attest; You Can Generally
Avoid Most Any Physical or Even Emotional Conflict

By Carrying Yourself Fearlessly in Non-Verbal Ways of
Moving With the Emotional Intelligence to actually Be able

to Regulate Emotions, Integrate Senses, and Turn the Other Cheek;

And God
Yes, Basically
Stay Alive a Bit Longer in this Life...

And Even Stay Married For Decades,
So Much Easier to Say Yes Dear to
All of What Comes Next When One

is Basically Floating on A Cloud
in a State of Being of Peace That
Naturally Springs Love FRiEnDS With

Gravity
Just Another

Balancing

Wave Rolling
Gently on the Ocean;

With of Course the Potential,
if Need Be, of What the Perfectly
Still Quiet Lion is Able to Do After a Roar...

MoraL oF A STory, Don't Waste Ya Energy on Fools...

Other than that the Character Jesus, Talked a Big Peaceful
Loving Talk Yet When it Came to Regulating His Emotions

And Turning Tables Over he Failed Miserably at the Attempt;

Oh Dear Lord, And Who Loves The Enemies And Tortures them
Forever

in the Same
Chapter of a Book...

It's Worth Noting It
Had Many More Than one Author;

And Both 'Democrats and Republicans
Wrote the Book' hehe

by Metaphor
of Course, HAha...

And On Top of That IN REAL LIFE THEN,
He Would Have LIKELY Been Immediately
Stoned And Wouldn't Have had to Worry

(AND Sadly Even Potentially Sodomized Like
What Happened When 'Lot Offered Up His Virginal Daughters
Instead;' Sadly, Not Even Hard to Imagine in the 21st Century)

About Getting Crucified later; Yes, Lose Lose Way of Existence...
Other than That John 14:12 Reports Others Will Improve His Performance...

And Luke 17:21 Reports
That the Only Way
to the Kingdom
of God that
Heavenly
Place
Will Be Found Within;

They Just Didn't Have
A Buddha, etc, to Explain/SHoW HoW...

Dear Lord, REALLY, So Many More
Potential Avenues to Heaven now...

Even though, i Realize 'Jesus' Is Just
A Story, Overall, i'm Glad He Still Exists in my Town at Least...

Nothing Much Trumps The Evil of the Old Trademark Testament TRumP;

Except, for Whatever 'Ghost Author' Made Jesus Torture Enemies Forever too...

After
Loving
Them, What SicK Duh...!

Yet the Other 'Good Cop Version' of 'JeSuS' Will Do for Now;

For Some Form of LoVE iN Peace For Real NoW As Essence at Least..:)



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SailorsGuy12
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25 Aug 2024, 4:16 pm

bee33 wrote:
Turning the other cheek doesn't mean being a doormat or letting other people take advantage of you. To assume that is to assume that only violence and aggression can solve problems. Turning the other cheek is being the bigger person who sees the bigger picture and doesn't escalate violence with more violence. It's a position of strength and kindness, not weakness.

True, it's not always possible or practical. We do what we can.


Well a lot of times it is taken as being a doormat.


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26 Aug 2024, 4:01 am

I think "turning the other cheek" is an idea with real but limited merit. Jesus is more reknowned for colourful rhetoric than for detail and precision.

I guess the idea is that you can use it to shame your aggressor into desisting or to make bystanders take your side. It can work, but not everybody can be shamed like that, and bystanders might not help you at all. And it's suspiciously handy for authorities to encourage people to be docile and easier to push around.

Me, I rarely turn the other cheek. I prefer the doctrine of minimum force.



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26 Aug 2024, 5:19 am

SailorsGuy12 wrote:
Matthew 5:38
Quote:
...You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also;…


I think it's crock sometimes. I don't want to have everything taken away from me by evil people, turning the other cheek and forgiving others should have it's limits. What do others think?


Absolutely. Turn the other cheek to the bully and they'll laugh and seize the opportunity.

It's not productive in evolutionary terms either, tit for tat is what works best in game theory.



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26 Aug 2024, 9:30 am

Here's an episode from a show called Moral Orel dedicated to the phrase "Turn the other cheek". WARNING: This is not a kid's show! This is a mature show about a kid named Orel growing up in a WASP society. The series portrays him taking church sermons, bible quotes, and other religious lessons too seriously or out of context resulting in situations getting out of hand.


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27 Aug 2024, 8:55 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
Here's an episode from a show called Moral Orel dedicated to the phrase "Turn the other cheek". WARNING: This is not a kid's show! This is a mature show about a kid named Orel growing up in a WASP society. The series portrays him taking church sermons, bible quotes, and other religious lessons too seriously or out of context resulting in situations getting out of hand.

I watched the series and I find it hilarious.

:lol: The latter half part of that specific video was one of the funniest I've seen.
One of those parts that made me laugh out loud.

But seriously, it is not a kid's show.
And it's not for the easily upset/offended in some cases.



But seriously, the quote itself is... Too simplified.
The Art of War by Sun Tzu is a more practical approach related to the bible quote in action, though in which requires layers and upon layers of discernment to fully utilize.


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29 Aug 2024, 6:50 pm

I've seen some Christians rationalize it thus:

Quote:

To understand this Bible verse, you first have to understand the cultural context in which it was stated. During the time and period in which Christ lived and taught, being slapped with the palm of the hand was reserved for someone you saw as equal to you in status.

Being backhanded was for servants and people beneath you. When He instructed them to turn the other cheek, he wasn’t telling them to accept being slapped as their due. He was teaching them how to passively resist and force the person to acknowledge them as an equal. They either have to now slap you with an open palm or not slap you at all. Either way, you win.



I suspect that they are full of shite, but I don't know for sure.


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30 Aug 2024, 4:53 am

Honey69 wrote:
I've seen some Christians rationalize it thus:

Quote:

To understand this Bible verse, you first have to understand the cultural context in which it was stated. During the time and period in which Christ lived and taught, being slapped with the palm of the hand was reserved for someone you saw as equal to you in status.

Being backhanded was for servants and people beneath you. When He instructed them to turn the other cheek, he wasn’t telling them to accept being slapped as their due. He was teaching them how to passively resist and force the person to acknowledge them as an equal. They either have to now slap you with an open palm or not slap you at all. Either way, you win.



I suspect that they are full of shite, but I don't know for sure.


I've seen that kind of thing too. Usually involves ancient rules about the slaveowner's restrictions concerning the use of left or right hand, or palm / back, so I guess they're saying it's a tactical ploy rather than a moral requirement to enable your aggressors. Much of scripture is so open to interpretation that nobody really knows exactly what it was trying to say, which limits its value as a moral code, in as far as morality can ever be exact. Paul reckoned that turning the other cheek would "heap coals on his head," which sounds like passive aggression, but I've read that it's just a metaphor for reforming somebody's mind, the idea being that the cheek-turning response makes the aggressor reconsider their ways, and so spreads good in the world.