Flat Earth and the Bible

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So, "Who cares what God thinks?", right?

The difference between your views and ours is that we believe reality is God-centered, whereas you believe reality is human-centered. We believe we should listen and cater to God's preferences for how things should be done, since "of Him, and through Him, and to Him are all things" (Romans 11:36), and that, therefore, reality is God-centered. But you believe that we should center our attentions on human preferences, and that doing so will yield balance and universal satisfaction in the world, since, in your view, reality is human-centered.

Therefore, views on such matters as homosexuality are a matter of which authority one believes in: God's, or man's. Therefore, the only way for us to approve of things the Bible calls sins is to reject God. Through the Bible -- Old Testament and New -- it is stated that God's ways our not our ways (the ways of the world), and that the two ways will, and do always, conflict. Therefore, we each have to choose between the two. The Bible is clear that the world will not be reconciled to God. It's spinning off into its own destruction. We, therefore, have to decide: Do we like the little, uncomfortable lifeboat better? Or do we like the nice, big, sinking ship better?

Last edited by Ragtime on 28 Aug 2007, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I forgot to add this:

It seems to me that it is easier for most to acommodate certain interpretations of the Bible to science today, such as the earth being round, but not changing the interpretation about homosexuals to acommodate to science. Some do, but still most don't, and that is what I find interesting, most people like that first one, but not the second one.

I still fail to see what "accomodating homosexuality" has to do with science.

Technically speaking, I do not believe reality is human-centred, but rather human perception centred. Things exist without us. It takes the human mind to percieve them as beautiful or ugly or good or evil.

The flat earth quotes from the Bible that no one has managed to muster a real response to are. Greenblue has obviously decided to move on the conversation.

I've not seen any "flat earth quotes from the Bible" either.

Here it is, right on the first page:

Here's another scientific one that some Christians still reject, because they would prefer to believe that man was created from dust: The Theory of Evolution and how things evolved over millions of years to what they are now.

Problem is, Raggy, that without humans and 'our' thought processes, there would be no god to begin with. Animals act on instinct for survival, so therefore don't think in the same way humans do. Therefore, there is no such thing as god and philosophy to a dog or a cat, just where their next meal is coming from and getting laid. Humans, on the other hand, have the capacity to think, write, speak (birds are only mimics and do not think) constructively, so therefore god exists because we exist. You might consider God to exist when we are gone, and no-one will really know, but why would a 'god' bother to hang around if there is no-one left to praise him and worship him? So man created god, and thus without the knowledge that we gained in later times about the Earth being round, and the fact that it revolves around the sun, the flat earth perception was the only one that some of those people could grasp.

All passages taken out of context, either historically, culturally or otherwise.

Only "requires" a geocentric solar system to make sense, if you think the Bible has to be a science textbook. Which it doesn't and isn't. If the rotation of the earth was slowed somehow temporarily, such that the same part of the globe faced the sun for a 24 hour period (and I'm not going to get into how that could occur, I'm open to the supernatural), then from a viewer on the Earth it would naturally appear that the sun stood still. Just as it naturally occurs that the sun moves. We still say "the sun is setting in the west." We don't say "the earth is rotating to obscure the sun," that's too technical and nonsensical. That doesn't mean we believe in a geocentric solar system any more than they might have.


It doesn't unambiguously mean anything of the sort. (And that would be First Chronicles...) Here you are making what is known as the "etymological fallacy," attributing the root meaning to a word as opposed to allowing the context to define what the word means. The word translated "earth" here does not always mean "The Earth" as in the planet, globe, etc. It is variously translated "the land," "ground," "country," "territory," etc., depending on the context. Here, it is merely stating that the earth's foundations, it's makeup, are finished and will not be moved or eradicated. Not that the Planet Earth is fixed in space.


Once again, an etymological fallacy. The word for borders here is gbuwlah, meaning boundaries, or regions. Also sometimes translated as coastline, or landmark. Any of these meanings of the word certainly would fit within a globe.


Context is everything! The first part of this verse reads, "He raises up the poor out of the dust and lifts up the needy from the ash heap, to make them sit with nobles and inherit the throne of glory." Taken as a whole, this verse forms a form of poetry known as a Hebrew Parallelism, where the second half of the saying echoes the first, in other language. Clearly from the context, the "pillars" that the Lord has set the world upon are it's noblemen, it's leaders. We still use this language today, when we talk of the "pillars" of the community. Certainly we don't mean actual pillars?


Might be worth noting that this passage takes place during a dream sequence...


Ditto the previous statement. Also meant hyperbolic, not to be taken literally. We still talk of going to "the ends of the earth," meaning as far as one can go in any direction. The image here being that the King's reign would be known far and wide.

And as far as Luke 4:5 goes... it was a vision. Not a real-life happening. This is just putting up straw men.


HELLO? What part of VISION are you not grasping? Not to mention that we still use the terminology, "the four corners of the earth" to mean as far east, west, north and south as you can go. Doesn't mean we believe the earth is flat, does it?


What part of HY PER BO LE do you not understand?

Certainly, when there is a massive earthquake or other disaster of similar nature, it feels like the earth is turning upside down, being "knocked off it's foundations," and reeling to and fro like a drunkard.

And we still use the expression "my life was turned upside down." Now obviously we don't mean literally.

Ever been in Southern California, felt a "big one"? Try it sometime. Then you won't mock this passage.

Last edited by JonnyBGoode on 28 Aug 2007, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

By the sound of it then the WHOLE BOOK was written as a vision, a dream, or as a drug induced haze. It's all open to interpretation, and the way those passage are taken is IN CONTEXT with the subject here. Talking about dream sequences, poems, pillars of the community doesn't deny the fact that the actual MEANING can be interpolated as saying that the Earth was flat, and was the centre of the universe. The writers could only work with the knowledge they had, which 2000 years or more ago was nothing compared with what we have now. The flat-earth argument is definitely there; it's just that Christian teachings don't allow people to acknowledge it, because with today's evidence, they'd be made to look like complete idiots.

No.

Certain parts are visions, dreams, apocalyptic literature. And those are spelled out as such. Other places are obvious hyperbole, and are meant to be taken as such. If you read the Bible the way you would any other book, it makes a lot more sense than picking quotes out at random and making it seem to say something it doesn't.

In the examples above, the person took a snippet of the verse in question, pulled it out of the context of what it really meant to say, and said "a-HA, see? Flat Earth, right here!" It's like making a case for suicide by taking, "Judas went out and hanged himself" and putting it beside, "go thou and do likewise." Nobody ever reads any other work of literature that way, it would be stupid. The only reason you read the Bible that way is if you have an agenda against it from the start.

Good old newtonian mechanics means that what you have said about stopping the earth for 24 hours is total nonsence. It is the bible saying there is flat earth. Now you are just rewriting your religion to adapt to any arguement.

But the bible is never read from cover to cover anyway. Every Christian I know picks and chooses which passages to read and follow at any one time, and they have told me that they have to do it that way to get the true MEANING (if there is one) of God's word. I told them it would be simpler to read it cover-to-cover, but they said the 'word' wasn't written that way, you are meant to search for it. So quoting small passages is done quite regularly, and the context is not lost. You may have been taught differently, but I was told if I read the bible like a normal book, I would not get the meaning, because it wouldn't make sense. That's one reason I gave Christianity the arse in the first place.

Joshua 10:8-14 KJV
(8) And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear them not: for I have delivered them into thine hand; there shall not a man of them stand before thee.
(9) Joshua therefore came unto them suddenly, and went up from Gilgal all night.
(10) And the LORD discomfited them before Israel, and slew them with a great slaughter at Gibeon, and chased them along the way that goeth up to Bethhoron, and smote them to Azekah, and unto Makkedah.
(11) And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.
(12) Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
(13) And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
(14) And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

God Omnipotent in control of space and TIME could have held only the living in their path though time and froze the rest. The verse does not state the mechanism God used only what it appeared to be to the Israeli soldiers.

Judges 5:26-31 KJV
(26) She put her hand to the nail, and her right hand to the workmen's hammer; and with the hammer she smote Sisera, she smote off his head, when she had pierced and stricken through his temples.
(27) At her feet he bowed, he fell, he lay down: at her feet he bowed, he fell: where he bowed, there he fell down dead.
(28) The mother of Sisera looked out at a window, and cried through the lattice, Why is his chariot so long in coming? why tarry the wheels of his chariots?
(29) Her wise ladies answered her, yea, she returned answer to herself,
(30) Have they not sped? have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two; to Sisera a prey of divers colours, a prey of divers colours of needlework, of divers colours of needlework on both sides, meet for the necks of them that take the spoil?
(31) So let all thine enemies perish, O LORD: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years.

An historical account of the assasination of a foreign general with a poetic blessing.



Psalms 19:1-14 KJV
(1) <To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.> The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
(2) Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
(3) There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
(4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
(5) Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
(6) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
(7) The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
(8) The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
(9) The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
(10) More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
(11) Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
(12) Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
(13) Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
(14) Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.


The sun rises in the east travels in an arc and sets in the west as would be seen by a person on the 30th parallel. However it says "circuit" denoting a circular path. So did King David travel to Norway?




2 Kings 20:8-11 KJV
(8) And Hezekiah said unto Isaiah, What shall be the sign that the LORD will heal me, and that I shall go up into the house of the LORD the third day?
(9) And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees?
(10) And Hezekiah answered, It is a light thing for the shadow to go down ten degrees: nay, but let the shadow return backward ten degrees.
(11) And Isaiah the prophet cried unto the LORD: and he brought the shadow ten degrees backward, by which it had gone down in the dial of Ahaz.



Why would it suprise you that the Creator would be in control of His creation? Be it time or the rotation of the earth?



1 Chronicles 16:23-36 KJV
(23) Sing unto the LORD, all the earth; shew forth from day to day his salvation.
(24) Declare his glory among the heathen; his marvellous works among all nations.
(25) For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised: he also is to be feared above all gods.
(26) For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens.
(27) Glory and honour are in his presence; strength and gladness are in his place.
(28) Give unto the LORD, ye kindreds of the people, give unto the LORD glory and strength.
(29) Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.
(30) Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.
(31) Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth.
(32) Let the sea roar, and the fulness thereof: let the fields rejoice, and all that is therein.
(33) Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
(34) O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.
(35) And say ye, Save us, O God of our salvation, and gather us together, and deliver us from the heathen, that we may give thanks to thy holy name, and glory in thy praise.
(36) Blessed be the LORD God of Israel for ever and ever. And all the people said, Amen, and praised the LORD.

Not the same earth referred to in Job 26:7 where it says, "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." which refers to the planet.




Job 38:1-41 KJV
(1) Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
(2) Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
(3) Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
(4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
(5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
(6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
(7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
(8) Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
(9) When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
(10) And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
(11) And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
(12) Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
(13) That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
(14) It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
(15) And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
(16) Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
(17) Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
(18) Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
(19) Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
(20) That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
(21) Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
(22) Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
(23) Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
(24) By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
(25) Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
(26) To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
(27) To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
(28) Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
(29) Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
(30) The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
(31) Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
(32) Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
(33) Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
(34) Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
(35) Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
(36) Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
(37) Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
(38) When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
(39) Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
(40) When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
(41) Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.





Micah 6:1-4 KJV
(1) Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice.
(2) Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.
(3) O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.
(4) For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.





Psalms 93:1-5 KJV+
(1) The LORD3068 reigneth,4427 he is clothed3847 with majesty;1348 the LORD3068 is clothed3847 with strength,5797 wherewith he hath girded himself:247 the world8398 also637 is established,3559 that it cannot1077 be moved.4131
(2) Thy throne3678 is established3559 of old:4480, 227 thou859 art from everlasting.4480, 5769
(3) The floods5104 have lifted up,5375 O LORD,3068 the floods5104 have lifted up5375 their voice;6963 the floods5104 lift up5375 their waves.1796
(4) The LORD3068 on high4791 is mightier117 than the noise4480, 6963 of many7227 waters,4325 yea, than the mighty117 waves4867 of the sea.3220
(5) Thy testimonies5713 are very3966 sure:539 holiness6944 becometh4998 thine house,1004 O LORD,3068 forever.753, 3117

H8398
תּבל
têbêl
tay-bale'
From H2986; the earth (as moist and therefore inhabited); by extension the globe; by implication its inhabitants; specifically a particular land, as Babylonia or Palestine: - habitable part, world.



Psalms 74:16-17 KJV+
(16) The day3117 is thine, the night3915 also637 is thine: thou859 hast prepared3559 the light3974 and the sun.8121
(17) Thou859 hast set5324 all3605 the borders1367 of the earth:776 thou859 hast made3335 summer7019 and winter.2779

H1367
גּבלה גּבוּלה
gebûlâh gebûlâh
gheb-oo-law', gheb-oo-law'
Feminine of H1366; a boundary, region: - border, bound, coast, landmark, place.

H776
ארץ
'erets
BDB Definition:
1) land, earth
1a) earth
1a1) whole earth (as opposed to a part)
1a2) earth (as opposed to heaven)
1a3) earth (inhabitants)
1b) land
1b1) country, territory
1b2) district, region
1b3) tribal territory
1b4) piece of ground
1b5) land of Canaan, Israel
1b6) inhabitants of land
1b7) Sheol, land without return, (under) world
1b8) city (-state)
1c) ground, surface of the earth
1c1) ground
1c2) soil
1d) (in phrases)
1d1) people of the land
1d2) space or distance of country (in measurements of distance)
1d3) level or plain country
1d4) land of the living
1d5) end(s) of the earth
1e) (almost wholly late in usage)
1e1) lands, countries
1e1a) often in contrast to Canaan
Part of Speech: noun feminine





1 Samuel 2:6-9 KJV+
(6) The LORD3068 killeth,4191 and maketh alive:2421 he bringeth down3381 to the grave,7585 and bringeth up.5927
(7) The LORD3068 maketh poor,3423 and maketh rich:6238 he bringeth low,8213 and637 lifteth up.7311
(8) He raiseth up6965 the poor1800 out of the dust,4480, 6083 and lifteth up7311 the beggar34 from the dunghill,4480, 830 to set3427 them among5973 princes,5081 and to make them inherit5157 the throne3678 of glory:3519 for3588 the pillars4690 of the earth776 are the LORD's,3068 and he hath set7896 the world8398 upon5921 them.
(9) He will keep8104 the feet7272 of his saints,2623 and the wicked7563 shall be silent1826 in darkness;2822 for3588 by strength3581 shall no3808 man376 prevail.1396

H4690
מצק / מצוּק
mâtsûq
BDB Definition:
1) molten support, pillar, column
Part of Speech: noun masculine



Job 9:1-9 KJV+
(1) Then Job347 answered6030 and said,559
(2) I know3045 it is so3588, 3651 of a truth:551 but how4100 should man582 be just6663 with5973 God?410
(3) If518 he will2654 contend7378 with5973 him, he cannot3808 answer6030 him one259 of4480 a thousand.505
(4) He is wise2450 in heart,3824 and mighty533 in strength:3581 who4310 hath hardened7185 himself against413 him, and hath prospered?7999
(5) Which removeth6275 the mountains,2022 and they know3045 not:3808 which834 overturneth2015 them in his anger.639
(6) Which shaketh7264 the earth776 out of her place,4480, 4725 and the pillars5982 thereof tremble.6426
(7) Which commandeth559 the sun,2775 and it riseth2224 not;3808 and sealeth up2856 the stars.3556
(8) Which alone905 spreadeth out5186 the heavens,8064 and treadeth1869 upon5921 the waves1116 of the sea.3220
(9) Which maketh6213 Arcturus,5906 Orion,3685 and Pleiades,3598 and the chambers2315 of the south.8486

Job 26:1-14 KJV+
(1) But Job347 answered6030 and said,559
(2) How4100 hast thou helped5826 him that is without3808 power?3581 how savest3467 thou the arm2220 that hath no3808 strength?5797
(3) How4100 hast thou counseled3289 him that hath no3808 wisdom?2451 and how hast thou plentifully7230 declared3045 the thing8454 as it is?
(4) To854 whom4310 hast thou uttered5046 words?4405 and whose4310 spirit5397 came3318 from4480 thee?
(5) Dead7496 things are formed2342 from under4480, 8478 the waters,4325 and the inhabitants7931 thereof.
(6) Hell7585 is naked6174 before5048 him, and destruction11 hath no369 covering.3682
(7) He stretcheth out5186 the north6828 over5921 the empty place,8414 and hangeth8518 the earth776 upon5921 nothing.1099
(8) He bindeth up6887 the waters4325 in his thick clouds;5645 and the cloud6051 is not rent1234, 3808 under8478 them.
(9) He holdeth back270 the face6440 of his throne,3678 and spreadeth6576 his cloud6051 upon5921 it.
(10) He hath compassed2328, 5921 the waters6440, 4325 with bounds,2706 until5704 the day216 and night2822 come to an end.8503
(11) The pillars5982 of heaven8064 tremble7322 and are astonished8539 at his reproof.4480, 1606
(12) He divideth7280 the sea3220 with his power,3581 and by his understanding8394 he smiteth through4272 the proud.7293
(13) By his spirit7307 he hath garnished8235 the heavens;8064 his hand3027 hath formed2490 the crooked1281 serpent.5175
(14) Lo,2005 these428 are parts7098 of his ways:1870 but how4100 little8102 a portion1697 is heard8085 of him? but the thunder7482 of his power1369 who4310 can understand?995

H5982
עמּד / עמּוּד
‛ammûd
BDB Definition:
1) pillar, column
1a) pillar
1b) column, upright
1c) column (of smoke)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
CLOUDS!! !! !! !!

Psalms 75:1-10 KJV+
(1) To the chief Musician,5329 Al-taschith,516 A Psalm4210 or Song7892 of Asaph.623 Unto thee, O God,430 do we give thanks,3034 unto thee do we give thanks:3034 for that thy name8034 is near7138 thy wondrous works6381 declare.5608
(2) When3588 I shall receive3947 the congregation4150 I589 will judge8199 uprightly.4339
(3) The earth776 and all3605 the inhabitants3427 thereof are dissolved:4127 I595 bear up8505 the pillars5982 of it. Selah.5542
(4) I said559 unto the fools,1984 Deal not foolishly:408, 1984 and to the wicked,7563 Lift not up7311, 408 the horn:7161
(5) Lift not up7311, 408 your horn7161 on high:4791 speak1696 not with a stiff6277 neck.6677
(6) For3588 promotion7311 cometh neither3808 from the east,4480, 4161 nor from the west,4480, 4628 nor3808 from the south.4480, 4057
(7) But3588 God430 is the judge:8199 he putteth down8213 one,2088 and setteth7311 up another.2088
(8) For3588 in the hand3027 of the LORD3068 there is a cup,3563 and the wine3196 is red;2560 it is full4392 of mixture;4538 and he poureth out5064 of the same:4480, 2088 but389 the dregs8105 thereof, all3605 the wicked7563 of the earth776 shall wring them out,4680 and drink8354 them.
(9) But I589 will declare5046 forever;5769 I will sing praises2167 to the God430 of Jacob.3290
(10) All3605 the horns7161 of the wicked7563 also will I cut off;1438 but the horns7161 of the righteous6662 shall be exalted.7311




Daniel 2:1-49 KJV
(1) And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him.
(2) Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
(3) And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my spirit was troubled to know the dream.
(4) Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation.
(5) The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, The thing is gone from me: if ye will not make known unto me the dream, with the interpretation thereof, ye shall be cut in pieces, and your houses shall be made a dunghill.
(6) But if ye shew the dream, and the interpretation thereof, ye shall receive of me gifts and rewards and great honour: therefore shew me the dream, and the interpretation thereof.
(7) They answered again and said, Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will shew the interpretation of it.
(8) The king answered and said, I know of certainty that ye would gain the time, because ye see the thing is gone from me.
(9) But if ye will not make known unto me the dream, there is but one decree for you: for ye have prepared lying and corrupt words to speak before me, till the time be changed: therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that ye can shew me the interpretation thereof.
(10) The Chaldeans answered before the king, and said, There is not a man upon the earth that can shew the king's matter: therefore there is no king, lord, nor ruler, that asked such things at any magician, or astrologer, or Chaldean.
(11) And it is a rare thing that the king requireth, and there is none other that can shew it before the king, except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.
(12) For this cause the king was angry and very furious, and commanded to destroy all the wise men of Babylon.
(13) And the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain.
(14) Then Daniel answered with counsel and wisdom to Arioch the captain of the king's guard, which was gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon:
(15) He answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.
(16) Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would shew the king the interpretation.
(17) Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions:
(18) That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.
(19) Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
(20) Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
(21) And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
(22) He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
(23) I thank thee, and praise thee, O thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of thee: for thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter.
(24) Therefore Daniel went in unto Arioch, whom the king had ordained to destroy the wise men of Babylon: he went and said thus unto him; Destroy not the wise men of Babylon: bring me in before the king, and I will shew unto the king the interpretation.
(25) Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation.
(26) The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof?
(27) Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, shew unto the king;
(28) But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;
(29) As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.
(30) But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.
(31) Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
(32) This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
(33) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
(34) Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
(35) Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
(36) This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.
(37) Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
(38) And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.
(39) And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
(40) And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
(41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
(42) And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
(43) And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
(44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
(45) Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
(46) Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.
(47) The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
(48) Then the king made Daniel a great man, and gave him many great gifts, and made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.
(49) Then Daniel requested of the king, and he set Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, over the affairs of the province of Babylon: but Daniel sat in the gate of the king.





Daniel 4:1-37 KJV
(1) Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.
(2) I thought it good to shew the signs and wonders that the high God hath wrought toward me.
(3) How great are his signs! and how mighty are his wonders! his kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and his dominion is from generation to generation.
(4) I Nebuchadnezzar was at rest in mine house, and flourishing in my palace:
(5) I saw a dream which made me afraid, and the thoughts upon my bed and the visions of my head troubled me.
(6) Therefore made I a decree to bring in all the wise men of Babylon before me, that they might make known unto me the interpretation of the dream.
(7) Then came in the magicians, the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
(8) But at the last Daniel came in before me, whose name was Belteshazzar, according to the name of my god, and in whom is the spirit of the holy gods: and before him I told the dream, saying,
(9) O Belteshazzar, master of the magicians, because I know that the spirit of the holy gods is in thee, and no secret troubleth thee, tell me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and the interpretation thereof.
(10) Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.
(11) The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth:
(12) The leaves thereof were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all: the beasts of the field had shadow under it, and the fowls of the heaven dwelt in the boughs thereof, and all flesh was fed of it.
(13) I saw in the visions of my head upon my bed, and, behold, a watcher and an holy one came down from heaven;
(14) He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off his branches, shake off his leaves, and scatter his fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from his branches:
(15) Nevertheless leave the stump of his roots in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts in the grass of the earth:
(16) Let his heart be changed from man's, and let a beast's heart be given unto him; and let seven times pass over him.
(17) This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
(18) This dream I king Nebuchadnezzar have seen. Now thou, O Belteshazzar, declare the interpretation thereof, forasmuch as all the wise men of my kingdom are not able to make known unto me the interpretation: but thou art able; for the spirit of the holy gods is in thee.
(19) Then Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, was astonied for one hour, and his thoughts troubled him. The king spake, and said, Belteshazzar, let not the dream, or the interpretation thereof, trouble thee. Belteshazzar answered and said, My lord, the dream be to them that hate thee, and the interpretation thereof to thine enemies.
(20) The tree that thou sawest, which grew, and was strong, whose height reached unto the heaven, and the sight thereof to all the earth;
(21) Whose leaves were fair, and the fruit thereof much, and in it was meat for all; under which the beasts of the field dwelt, and upon whose branches the fowls of the heaven had their habitation:
(22) It is thou, O king, that art grown and become strong: for thy greatness is grown, and reacheth unto heaven, and thy dominion to the end of the earth.
(23) And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
(24) This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:
(25) That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
(26) And whereas they commanded to leave the stump of the tree roots; thy kingdom shall be sure unto thee, after that thou shalt have known that the heavens do rule.
(27) Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquillity.
(28) All this came upon the king Nebuchadnezzar.
(29) At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
(30) The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
(31) While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
(32) And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
(33) The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
(34) And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
(35) And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
(36) At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
(37) Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.


Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.

Jesus not only was shown space but time, not a result of being on a physical mountain.

Revelation 7:1-4 KJV
(1) And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
(2) And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
(3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
(4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

North, South, East, West, you've heard of them have you not? The same direction to which God's chosen people of Israel were scattered.



Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Read above.


Ezekiel 7:1-6 KJV
(1) Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
(2) Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land.
(3) Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations.
(4) And mine eye shall not spare thee, neither will I have pity: but I will recompense thy ways upon thee, and thine abominations shall be in the midst of thee: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
(5) Thus saith the Lord GOD; An evil, an only evil, behold, is come.
(6) An end is come, the end is come: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come.


N,S,E,W?


Isaiah 24:1-23 KJV
(1) Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
(2) And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his master; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with the taker of usury, so with the giver of usury to him.
(3) The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word.
(4) The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish.
(5) The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
(6) Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
(7) The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
(8) The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
(9) They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
(10) The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
(11) There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
(12) In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.
(13) When thus it shall be in the midst of the land among the people, there shall be as the shaking of an olive tree, and as the gleaning grapes when the vintage is done.
(14) They shall lift up their voice, they shall sing for the majesty of the LORD, they shall cry aloud from the sea.
(15) Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.
(16) From the uttermost part of the earth have we heard songs, even glory to the righteous. But I said, My leanness, my leanness, woe unto me! the treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously.
(17) Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
(18) And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.
(19) The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
(20) The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
(21) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
(22) And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
(23) Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Can you read in context? Anyone?

You were told rubbish. Every student of the Bible -at least every serious student - knows to read a verse in the light of it's passage, a passage in the light of the passages around it, etc. So even if you're just reading a few verses here, a chapter there, to have an eye toward the whole of the passage, the global point that the author is trying to get across.

Your statement is false. I have read it cover to cover. Genesis through Revelation. Have you? Has anyone besides me? On the ACT and GED I was in the 99th percentile in reading comprehesion, I doubt very much any of you are from what I've been reading here.