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ASPartOfMe
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06 Nov 2024, 7:07 am

Yes some Americans won’t accept a black woman president.

Yes Trump is a master salesmen, the best I have ever seen. Going on Joe Rogan and other bro friendly podcasts gained him some male support in what was thought of as “woke” Gen Z.

Yes his substantial MAGA base is loyal to a t.

Yes most Americans think the economy is bad(more on that later).

Despite all of that this race should have been a piece of cake, outside of the MAGA universe most Americans dislike the man, a lot.

Harris’s message kept on changing. Joy, Brat Summer, Republicans are weird, the economy is great(the numbers say they were right, but the demographics a lot of the swing voters are in are struggling so this came off as gaslighting), look all of the A list celebrities are endorsing her, that worked as well for her as it did for Clinton, Trump is fascist/Nazi.

Who thought calling the needed swing voters “low information” was a good idea?

In fairness the campaign had to organize a quick campaign on short notice but guess whose fault that was?

The Dems thought they could hide Biden’s senility through the election despite polling consistently showing it was hurting the ticket. For the country's sake they should have invoked the 25th amendment as Vice President Harris has the constitutional duty to invoke it. By the time they realized this it was too late Biden was the presumptive nominee. When it blew up and they had to remove him for a time it looked not only they had gotten away with it but it looked like a stroke of genius. The polling moved substantially in her direction, massive money was pouring, Dems were euphoric about Kamala.

Cynics described it as a sugar high. Somebody must have laced that sugar with a drug that causes amnesia. The reason the Dems hung onto Biden even after it became obvious that losing to Trump was a real possibility was because they thought Harris losing was a greater possibility.

Conservative commentators have been crowing that the prosecutions actually helped Trump if have no evidence of this. If anything despite all the publicity they seem to have been a insignificant if any factor at all.
.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 06 Nov 2024, 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

carlos55
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06 Nov 2024, 8:09 am

Yes self inflicted wounds

Hopefully this will be the end of identity politics.

The idea that a job that comes with great responsibility should go to someone not on merit but because they are a woman, black etc..

The idea goes against the very beliefs of Martin L King

Is this the best the US could do an old man with a big mouth and a woman who looked totally out of her depth.


Where’s the other 350 million? time for a 3rd party and end to the rep/ dem grip on democracy I think


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06 Nov 2024, 8:15 am

Had a senile president running a second term despite clearly showing age related cognitive decline, shot trump once, had another go shortly after, have a track record for being needlessly hostile and gaslightly to anyone with even slightly Conservative views and hurried a tepid candidate to replace Biden when it was already too late.

For some reason, people are still confused how Trump won though.

I'm laughing my arse off here.



Tim_Tex
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06 Nov 2024, 8:28 am

The Dems did no wrong.

Trump got his base spun up about woke this, woke that, and kept pushing the idea that Latin Americans are jumping across the border to rape white women, and how the Dems want to take everyone's guns, defund the police, and ban Christianity.

And people bought it hook, line, and sinker.


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auntblabby
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06 Nov 2024, 2:29 pm

"no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." (H.L. Mencken)

the brain-dead politics of amuuurica will be its eventual undoing as a united nation.



MatchboxVagabond
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06 Nov 2024, 4:18 pm

auntblabby wrote:
"no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." (H.L. Mencken)

the brain-dead politics of amuuurica will be its eventual undoing as a united nation.

I wish people would stop saying things like that. The problem is that people keep voting blue no matter who while the party leadership continues to self-sabotage and bird dog for the GOP.



Aspinator
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06 Nov 2024, 4:28 pm

Apparently Biden's garbage comment pixxed off a lot of people. To look on the bright side: The US voters will look to the Democrats to fix Trump's screw-ups (if he does leave office). Also I feel 4 years of the ultra-right government will almost guarantee a Democratic win and forever ruin the republican party in the future.



ASPartOfMe
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06 Nov 2024, 5:18 pm

Where Harris’ campaign went wrong

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It was supposed to be everything short of a free ad – a panel of women not containing their excitement to welcome Kamala Harris, ready to introduce her to their committed daytime audience of exactly the type of women the vice president’s campaign always hoped were going to be critical to her base.

It was a moment that encapsulated one of the biggest challenges facing her campaign – which, in the end, proved insurmountable.

“What, if anything, would you have done something differently than President Biden during the past four years?” co-host of ABC’s “The View” Sunny Hostin asked Harris, looking to give her a set for her to spike over the net.

“There is not a thing that comes to mind,” she said.

Even Harris realized she had a problem, trying to adjust a moment later by saying she would put a Republican in her Cabinet.

Aides didn’t wait until Harris was off the set to start trying to clean it up. A Democrat who had spoken with her told CNN at the time that she didn’t want to name her differences with President Joe Biden – including a higher capital gains tax rate, a bigger child tax credit and a tougher border policy – because she thought it would look disloyal to the man who had picked her as his running mate and then stepped aside for her.

The thud fell in a campaign already struggling with a listless October, which had replaced the late summer exuberance and a September debate that nearly every political observer other than Donald Trump acknowledged she crushed. As aides new to the Harris orbit exerted control, she struggled with preparation. She grew hesitant, losing some of the confidence and swagger that had defined the early weeks of her reintroduction to the country. Aides who had successfully pushed her out of her comfort zone earlier in the year felt like they were running into the kind of walls she used to put up.

CNN spoke with over a dozen senior Harris campaign aides both in the Wilmington, Delaware, campaign headquarters and on the ground in the states, as well as multiple volunteers and local elected officials, over the course of the final weeks of the race.

A country crying out for change got a candidate who, at a crucial moment as more voters were tuning in, decided to soft-pedal the change she knew she represented.

In the scope of a Democratic ticket that pulled off the biggest turnaround in approval ratings and the fastest consolidation around a new candidate in the history of modern presidential politics, this may have seemed like a minor moment. But it reflected deeper problems: some, like with the staff around her, that she might have been able to adjust; and one, with Biden, that she could never shake, with internal polls showing overwhelming majorities of voters thought the country was on the wrong track

By the time Harris got a clearer, sharper contrast answer out on the Biden question, the situation had congealed in ways she never got past – both among voters wavering in the center who wanted to hear her rebuff the president on his handling of the economy and voters on the left who wanted to hear her more forcefully disavow Biden’s support for Israel.

But perhaps the bigger problem with Biden, top Democrats fumed in the aftermath of that fateful debate in June and then again as they watched the results turn red on Tuesday, is that he should have never been anywhere near the 2024 race. If he had stepped aside after the midterms, as some aides urged him to, the Democratic Party process could have played out in a primary campaign. Candidates’ kinks could have been worked out – or not. Almost certainly whoever emerged as the nominee would have gone into the final weeks without so many Americans complaining they didn’t know enough, as they said about Harris. Biden could have taken on a role as steward and elder statesman, rather than a guy the Harris campaign never knew quite what do with.

Late surge of optimism crashes
If the election had been two weeks ago, senior aides to Harris were admitting in recent days, the vice president probably would have lost. But they went into Tuesday feeling like she had gotten herself to a likely squeaker victory. One-on-one conversations volunteers were having as they knocked on doors seemed to be clicking. For the first time in his nine years dominating American politics, Trump’s character seemed to be breaking through as an actual weight on people who wanted to vote for him.

Leading Democrats smiled just thinking about what it would mean to beat Trump with the first female president — a woman of color, a child of two immigrants, a prosecutor, and a candidate who talked about joy and offered up her smile against the scowl that had become his most common expression. Her candidacy sparked in them the unfamiliar feeling of hope.

That sentiment evaporated by 11 p.m. on Tuesday. But for many anxious Democrats, this is just the beginning. Going into Election Day, many top Democratic operatives across the campaign and in the states told CNN different versions of the same thought: If this didn’t work – with the massive campaign they’d put together, with millions of doors knocked by volunteers who flooded into battleground states, with GOP former Rep. Liz Cheney and former President Bill Clinton united under the same tent stumping hard for her, with celebrities from Bad Bunny and Arnold Schwarzenegger throwing their cultural weight behind her – what will?

Simmering internal fights and a revealing pick in Walz
Harris’ team would have gladly taken more time to introduce the vice president to the country, or to put together an operation, which, after the ticket switch in July, woke up every morning at campaign headquarters and in the states feeling behind on planning.

But by the time the campaign pulled off its multi-state simultaneous rally across battleground states Monday evening – which ended with Lady Gaga singing her song “The Edge of Glory” and adding in, “I’m an American woman on the edge” on the steps of the Philadelphia Museum of Art – a nervous feeling of maybe having made a movement happen was spreading among Harris aides and top supporters.

Those aides were a hodgepodge. Biden hadn’t just struggled as a candidate, but had failed to attract some top talent to his campaign because a generation of up-and-coming Democrats could never get excited about him. Harris tried to graft some of her own team onto them, even overlooking tensions between them from the early days of the Biden administration with campaign chair Jen O’Malley Dillon and keeping her in charge.

But some of those who had been in Wilmington for a year before Harris became the candidate bucked at their new bosses. Alumni of Barack Obama – most prominently his 2008, campaign manager David Plouffe, but also many others who moved into state operations – tried to flex a sometimes dated but often more incisive sense of how to win voters.

Along the way, multiple aides told CNN how much they were grinding on one another. But the mission to beat Trump and the short timeline to try to get there helped paper over a lot of the infighting that might have exploded in a longer campaign. It instead just raged behind the scenes as aides like Stephanie Cutter moved to exert dominance over defining how and what Harris said what she said.

And those tensions manifested from almost the start of this short campaign, in the internal wrangling over who Harris should pick as her running mate. The case for Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro was strong, and not just because Harris’ brother-in-law Tony West was telling her they looked like the future of the Democratic Party together, and that the popular governor would make sure she won Pennsylvania. Right-wing media types weren’t the only ones who noticed how much Shapiro had made himself into an Obama clone, as much a Jewish guy from the Philadelphia suburbs could be: The Obama alumni suddenly rushing onto her campaign were pushing for Shapiro.

Harris liked Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz, though. She liked his line about Republicans being weird. She liked the way he came off as easy and unassuming. She liked the way they’d gotten along in their interview, including his very open stress that he would mess up in a debate with Trump’s running mate, Ohio Sen. JD Vance. And she liked the way Walz had been so deferential to however she would define the job for him.

In the end, Harris made a decision that simultaneously reflected her newfound confidence and her long-standing insecurity, solid with trusting her own instincts, fine with going against her family and against the Obama orbit, but also with no interest in having anyone who would possibly outshine her.

Then, as top aides kept Harris away from interviews and unscripted moments for weeks longer than many on the campaign thought made sense, Walz was necessarily kept in a box too, so that he didn’t come off more accessible than she was.


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06 Nov 2024, 5:31 pm

I don't think there was a lot they could have done about it.

Beyond a certain fiscal competence, the economy (as judged by how much money the swing voters have) is wide open to luck and forces beyond anybody's control, and I think the main issue with voters is money.

The Democrats had their innings, it's normal (though not invariably the case) for the public to lose their liking for the incumbents once it becomes clear that they're not all that good. A party has to be pretty cunning to get itself a second term.

They didn't have an electable leader. I'd have given Harris a chance but America is probably still too sexist and racist overall to follow my lead (not all Americans of course). Even though America once returned a black president, a black woman was probably too much for them. But who else could have done any better? If they made a mistake it was in not looking hard enough for a competent centre-left populist. But it's hard to find popular politicians.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I don't have much data to back them up. I'm more of an ideas-and-questions machine when it comes to politics, but then I'm not sure anybody really knows what's going on. The pundits are good at being wise after the event. Me, I was always worried that Harris wouldn't quite cut it.



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06 Nov 2024, 5:35 pm

What are AOC's chances in 2028, if we even have an election at all?

What odds would you put on an AOC vs. Vance matchup (since Trump is term-limited)?


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06 Nov 2024, 5:45 pm

IMO: Most of America is not ready for a woman president; Gavin Newsome should be the presidential candidate and AOC is too far left for most people even to be VP. I personally suggest someone like Corey Booker.



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06 Nov 2024, 5:59 pm

I thought about running for governor of Texas, but I could never win because of my campaign slogans, which include:

"San Francisco is a city that all cities in Texas should emulate"

"I *am* going to take your guns...and your pickup trucks...and your country music"

"Yes, I *will* defund the police"

And my personal favorite,

"I'm gonna fling the border wide open"

See you at the grand opening of the Roberts County Abortion Clinic!! !


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06 Nov 2024, 7:17 pm

Aspinator wrote:
IMO: Most of America is not ready for a woman president; Gavin Newsome should be the presidential candidate and AOC is too far left for most people even to be VP. I personally suggest someone like Corey Booker.

I don't think that's it, we've had two terrible female candidates run badly thought out campaigns, I wouldn't assume that it means that the people won't vote for women. People said the same thing about black people before Obama and Catholics before JFK.

If they'd run a candidate that's actually competent, meets people where they are, and actually addresses their concerns she'd have a chance of winning IMHO.



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06 Nov 2024, 7:20 pm

The female candidates were way better than Donald Trump. I think sexism has played a large role in Trump winning both times. The fact that people voted for a serial sexual harasser and rapist says a lot. Evangelical Christianity in America tends to be sexist, and folks who adhere to that ideology make up a significant percentage of Trump’s fanbase.


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06 Nov 2024, 7:34 pm

For those wondering where my reference to Roberts County came from, here is the Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberts_County,_Texas

Here are selected factoids:

Quote:
Roberts County is one of four prohibition (entirely dry) counties in the state of Texas.


Quote:
Roberts County was one of the earliest counties in Texas to turn Republican. The last Democrat to win the county in a presidential election was Harry S. Truman in 1948, when he carried nearly 76% of its ballots. No Democrat has since exceeded the 40% of the vote that Texas native Lyndon B. Johnson won in the county in his 1964 national landslide. Jimmy Carter in 1976 was the last Democrat to win even 30% of the county's vote, Bill Clinton in 1996 to win 20%, and Al Gore in 2000 to win just 10%.

In recent years, Roberts County has become almost unanimously Republican. In 2008, 92% of voters voted for Republican John McCain versus only 7.92% for Democrat Barack Obama, making it one of the most Republican counties in the United States. In the 2016 presidential election, Republican Donald Trump received 94.58% of the vote, the largest margin in a county for a Republican in the U.S. that election. Roberts was again Trump's strongest county in 2020, and he won it by an even stronger margin: 96.2%.


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06 Nov 2024, 7:48 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
"no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." (H.L. Mencken)

the brain-dead politics of amuuurica will be its eventual undoing as a united nation.

I wish people would stop saying things like that. The problem is that people keep voting blue no matter who while the party leadership continues to self-sabotage and bird dog for the GOP.

you think people are democrats for no reason at all? you think I have no legitimate beefs against the right after all the nasties [bloody-minded opposition to any and all social programs for over a century now] they've done to me and mine?