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The Left Is Paying a High Price for Getting Men Wrong

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MatchboxVagabond
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17 Apr 2025, 9:47 pm

cyberdora wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Tate is filling a void that the left has vacated. From the videos I've seen of him, he is a thoroughly disgusting individual, but since the left has largely abandoned young men and failed to provide a counter-narrative about how men can be themselves in a way that's constructive, you get people attracted to what is on offer. That's not to take responsibility away from these young men, the things that I've seen Tate bragging about are criminal in nature and definitely not the sort of thing that moral people would be doing.


All I know is he and other manosphere youtubers are drawing millions of young men and boys into their sphere of influence. As with trump, he's a symptom, not the cause, I am more interested in what is driving men this direction e,g, MGTOW.

It's mostly feminists and society going in a direction that is counter to their interests while simultaneously blaming them for everything that's wrong. Letting feminists off the hook for getting the ball rolling and aggressively fighting against any efforts made to address the horrifying conditions in which many men are living would be wrong.

I do agree that Tate and Trump and the likes are more of a symptom, but there's a reason why there's so many MRA channels on places like YouTube that are being posted by women. And the whole MRA thing is oddly similar to what feminism looked like back before they lost their way and got drunk on power.



MatchboxVagabond
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17 Apr 2025, 9:49 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
Patriarchy is not a myth.

Feminism has and continues to make the world a better place for women.

Feminism:
Quote:
belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

It absolutely is a myth. The vast majority of men have never had any sort of meaningful power. The whole patriarchy thing is based on a misreading of history. A small fraction of men are in charge, the rest have never been appreciably better off than women.

The whole basis of the myth comes from a small number of men being in charge and rights being tied to responsibilities.



cyberdora
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17 Apr 2025, 9:51 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
For some reason a lot of guys who fall for the manosphere stuff picture themselves as alphas and sigmas but demonstrate themselves to be the weakest wimps imaginable.


Possibly, but when you don't feel like a man in front of your family and peers and crave female attention but get ignored by females you will give something that seems too good to be true a go.



MatchboxVagabond
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17 Apr 2025, 9:55 pm

cyberdora wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Patriarchy is not a myth.

Feminism has and continues to make the world a better place for women.

Feminism:
Quote:
belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism


You are preaching to the converted, its a different response when this message is directed at a young man who is unemployed, has no girlfriend and blames feminism for his situation.

Most of the men that believe in equality are MRAs at this point. Most of us are smart enough to have noticed that the feminists flat out don't care about men's rights. They don't care about workplace accidents, they don't care about us being overrepresented in poorly paying professions. They don't care about us being killed in military service. They don't care about men being underrepresented in college. They don't care about our life expectancy being shorter.

Contrast that with MRAs that do care about that stuff as well as gendered issues where women are getting the short end of it. It really shouldn't be a shocker that young men have noticed that they're getting screwed over policy wise and that there isn't any actual patriarchy out there helping them out. If patriarchy is a thing, it is amazingly bad at actually advantaging men.



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17 Apr 2025, 9:57 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
TwilightPrincess wrote:
Patriarchy is not a myth.

Feminism has and continues to make the world a better place for women.

Feminism:
Quote:
belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

It absolutely is a myth. The vast majority of men have never had any sort of meaningful power. The whole patriarchy thing is based on a misreading of history. A small fraction of men are in charge, the rest have never been appreciably better off than women.

The whole basis of the myth comes from a small number of men being in charge and rights being tied to responsibilities.

It doesn’t surprise me that you’d think that because you’ve not been impacted by it. However, it’s not a myth. With the overturning of Roe v. Wade, women don’t even have bodily autonomy, not that that’s the only concern. Sexual violence is another huge issue that disproportionately impacts women.


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cyberdora
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17 Apr 2025, 10:00 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Most of the men that believe in equality are MRAs at this point. Most of us are smart enough to have noticed that the feminists flat out don't care about men's rights. They don't care about workplace accidents, they don't care about us being overrepresented in poorly paying professions. They don't care about us being killed in military service. They don't care about men being underrepresented in college. They don't care about our life expectancy being shorter.


In Melbourne there are men's co-fraternity organisations that help support young single men who are suffering loneliness and divorced men also experiencing the same. One organisation is the Australian men's shed.
https://mensshed.org/



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17 Apr 2025, 10:05 pm

cyberdora wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
For some reason a lot of guys who fall for the manosphere stuff picture themselves as alphas and sigmas but demonstrate themselves to be the weakest wimps imaginable.


Possibly, but when you don't feel like a man in front of your family and peers and crave female attention but get ignored by females you will give something that seems too good to be true a go.


So basically, you're saying in order to redeem their sense of masculinity, they're going to whine like children until society forces a woman to be their property?


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17 Apr 2025, 10:06 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Most of the men that believe in equality are MRAs at this point.


They care so deeply about equality they'd happily roll things back to when they were even less equal. :roll:


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MatchboxVagabond
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17 Apr 2025, 10:12 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Most of the men that believe in equality are MRAs at this point.


They care so deeply about equality they'd happily roll things back to when they were even less equal. :roll:

That's what the feminists say. Meanwhile. what have feminists done to address disparities where women are the beneficiaries of sexism? I don't see anybody fighting to make workplace fatalities equal or to get more women into poorly paying jobs either.

I know that it's an unpopular position, but right now the MRAs are the only people that actually care about equality of the sexes. And that applies even in situations where men wouldn't benefit.

It's tough to argue with people that flat out don't believe that reality exists and insist on using out of date and poorly designed studies to try and back their PoV.



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17 Apr 2025, 10:13 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
So basically, you're saying in order to redeem their sense of masculinity, they're going to whine like children until society forces a woman to be their property?

Isn't that what they are doing?



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17 Apr 2025, 10:14 pm

cyberdora wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
So basically, you're saying in order to redeem their sense of masculinity, they're going to whine like children until society forces a woman to be their property?

Isn't that what they are doing?


It sure seems to be, I was just trying to confirm that's what you meant.

Men's Rights Activist seems to be an euphemism for anti-feminist.


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If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
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17 Apr 2025, 10:16 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
I know that it's an unpopular position, but right now the MRAs are the only people that actually care about equality of the sexes. And that applies even in situations where men wouldn't benefit.


Whether or not it's a popular position, it's a baseless and completely unsubstantiated claim that's only being put out because you're hoping to smear feminists as the problem and present anti-feminists as the solution.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
A lie remains a lie no matter how convincingly uttered.


MatchboxVagabond
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17 Apr 2025, 10:28 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
MatchboxVagabond wrote:
I know that it's an unpopular position, but right now the MRAs are the only people that actually care about equality of the sexes. And that applies even in situations where men wouldn't benefit.


Whether or not it's a popular position, it's a baseless and completely unsubstantiated claim that's only being put out because you're hoping to smear feminists as the problem and present anti-feminists as the solution.

Have you actually met any MRAs? Have you actually met any feminists? I'm not surprised by the reaction, credit where credit is due, they have done a fantastic job of propagandizing people. But, where is the concern for the male suicide rate? Or the shorter life expectancy? Or the lack of DV shelters to help men? Or the wars that lead to men being unnecessarily killed? Or the lower rates of academic achievement? Or the incarceration rates? Or workplace fatality rates? Or the men working dangerous jobs in general for poor pay? Or the relative lack of control over becoming a parent?

I literally cannot remember the last time I heard anybody claiming to be a feminist pushing any sort of real effort to address any of that. It's just a bunch of goal post moving and references to the past, ignoring that the way things were handled in the past can't be changed and with each passing year becomes less and less relevant.

So, folks can try to smear me all they like, but the fact of the matter is that this attitude that somehow I'm to blame for place the blame at the feet of the people that pushed for this situation is not fact based. Your average MRA cares far more about the welfare of women than your average feminist does of men. It's particularly galling because at least MRAs are aware that it's not all sunshine and rainbows to be a woman. We just don't particularly believe in lying about it to try and score points.



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17 Apr 2025, 10:30 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Men's Rights Activist seems to be an euphemism for anti-feminist.


It can be but men whom need support rarely seek support or get the help they need.



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17 Apr 2025, 10:31 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:
Have you actually met any MRAs? Have you actually met any feminists?


I have. I'm not sure you have based on the strawmen you assign to feminists and the steelmen you assign to MRAs.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
A lie remains a lie no matter how convincingly uttered.


funeralxempire
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17 Apr 2025, 10:31 pm

cyberdora wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Men's Rights Activist seems to be an euphemism for anti-feminist.


It can be but men whom need support rarely seek support or get the help they need.


Unfortunately this is a problem, sadly it seems that taking it out on women is a common outlet, even when they don't have any actual women in their lives.


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The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. —Malcolm X
A lie remains a lie no matter how convincingly uttered.