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tallgirl
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17 Aug 2005, 10:46 pm

Quote:
In my not-so-humble opinion whites are the worst race out there. Just look at what we've done to the world. Look at how many cultures/civilizations we've dilluted or destroyed through our arrogance and overblown sense of self-entitlement.


I am sure you haven't considered that the African tribal leaders were the people who sold their own people and that of their African enemies into slavery, to the "white" people, because if you had you wouldn't speak in such an absolutist tone. Please look up the Tuareg peoples of Niger and you will see what other Africans have done to them.

I am sure native Hawaiins and Samoans don't have problems with just "white" people, but also the Japanese who tortured and raped the natives.

The evolution of cultures involves conquer, assimilation or exile, and surrender. It cuts across all races and ethinicites. "Whites" aren't the only "race" that has done the things you mention. If you study history, you will see that it isn't just "us whities" but everyone who has been guilty of it in the past. The "Native Americans" (a term I find idiotic considering they are genetically related to Mongolians, so they are just as American as I am) were slaughtering themselves long before we showed up. They were just able to unite against a common enemy.

Like I said in a previous post, to another poster, don't be an idiot, idiots are boring.

Tallgirl.



tokaia
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18 Aug 2005, 12:07 am

tallgirl wrote:
Quote:
In my not-so-humble opinion whites are the worst race out there. Just look at what we've done to the world. Look at how many cultures/civilizations we've dilluted or destroyed through our arrogance and overblown sense of self-entitlement.


I am sure you haven't considered that the African tribal leaders were the people who sold their own people and that of their African enemies into slavery, to the "white" people, because if you had you wouldn't speak in such an absolutist tone. Please look up the Tuareg peoples of Niger and you will see what other Africans have done to them.

I am sure native Hawaiins and Samoans don't have problems with just "white" people, but also the Japanese who tortured and raped the natives.

The evolution of cultures involves conquer, assimilation or exile, and surrender. It cuts across all races and ethinicites. "Whites" aren't the only "race" that has done the things you mention. If you study history, you will see that it isn't just "us whities" but everyone who has been guilty of it in the past. The "Native Americans" (a term I find idiotic considering they are genetically related to Mongolians, so they are just as American as I am) were slaughtering themselves long before we showed up. They were just able to unite against a common enemy.

Like I said in a previous post, to another poster, don't be an idiot, idiots are boring.

Tallgirl.


Ah, yet another foolish human putting words in my mouth. I never said that that whites were the ONLY ones who screwed things up. If you'd bothered to read my post with a more open mind, you'd have seen that.

Many cultures have fought and conquered. But whites have spewed their kind all across the planet, infecting every corner, wiping out countless cultures and civilizations (often in the name of their stupid religions).

The Native Americans fought eachother, sure. But we killed most of them off because of our greed for THEIR land. The ones that were left were forced to live on tiny reservations with sh*tty soil that is poor for farming.

The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.

Blacks? If there were no demand, slavery wouldn't have happened. Perhaps the settlers should have done their own cotton picking. Lazy assholes.

What about the Aborigines in Australia?

Africa? Where'd all the whities come from?

Whites have dilluted the world. They have taken advantage of the natives of various countries. They have slaughtered countless in the name of Christianity. They've spoiled a good amount of the planet. And in many countries we've infected, we've quickly turned the natives into the minority of the population, and discriminated against them as if they don't belong there, or have no right to be there.


I'm not the idiot here, dearie. :shameonyou:



Sean
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18 Aug 2005, 12:55 am

tokaia wrote:
The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.

Sure it did. They sank a substantial portion of our Pacific Fleet, killed thousands of sailors and troops unprovoked, waged a war of agression across the the Pacific, comitted crimes against humanity against soldiers and white settlers alike, and tried to occupy islands near Northern Australia and the West Coast of the US to stage an invasion. Additionally, while we were working on the Manhattan Project, they were working on a bilogical weapon to be used against us to try and force our surrender. :evil:

tokaia wrote:
Blacks? If there were no demand, slavery wouldn't have happened. Perhaps the settlers should have done their own cotton picking. Lazy assholes.

There's an old redneck saying: "If we knew then what we know now, we would have picked our own cotton". Actually, before black slaves were imported, white indetured servants were used. They often weren't treated any better than the blacks were and their masters often made excuses to legally extend the length of their servetude.

tokaia wrote:
What about the Aborigines in Australia?

What about them? :?

tokaia wrote:
Whites have dilluted the world. They have taken advantage of the natives of various countries. They have slaughtered countless in the name of Christianity. They've spoiled a good amount of the planet. And in many countries we've infected, we've quickly turned the natives into the minority of the population, and discriminated against them as if they don't belong there, or have no right to be there.

We advanced science and technology that provided new resurces to the natives. There were a few wrongs comitted, but overall, their societies are better off. Look at Africa: Before the European settlers came, most of the tribes were living in the stone age and did not have medicine. The European settlers built up as close to modern communities as possible while the natives continued to live largely traditional lifestyles for several centuries. During this time, traders did buy tribes captured and sold by rival tribes or sometimes even by their own cheifs, but very few settlers were involved with that. I know that South Africa was very discriminatory towards blacks, but I don't know much else about it. I do know that South Africa didn't start to become ghetto until the natives took near complete control of the government. The same thing happened with Zimbabwe and now that mess is often newsworthy. It would seem that the science, medicine, and infastructure that the Europeans spread all over the world cannot be sustained by some cultures and breaks down with out being led and managed by someone who is trained in a European school of thought. The situations in Africa and a few other formerly colonized places around the world are starting to make it look like "white man's burden" has been unfairly demonized by liberal historians over a couple of mistakes".



Bec
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18 Aug 2005, 1:34 am

Sean wrote:
tokaia wrote:
What about the Aborigines in Australia?

What about them? :?


The Australian government, starting in 1900, took (more like kidnapped) all the half-white, half-Aborigine children to educate them, make them Christian, and just make them overall more 'acceptable' in a white society. The government's intentions were to have the half-caste children marry and procreate with white children. After a certain amount of generations their would be no more Aboriginal traits.

The United States has a somewhat similar history in its association with its indigenous people. This is different and much more shocking because this only ended in 1972. The victims of this are now known as the Stolen Generation.



tokaia
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18 Aug 2005, 5:09 am

Sean wrote:
tokaia wrote:
The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.

Sure it did. They sank a substantial portion of our Pacific Fleet, killed thousands of sailors and troops unprovoked, waged a war of agression across the the Pacific, comitted crimes against humanity against soldiers and white settlers alike, and tried to occupy islands near Northern Australia and the West Coast of the US to stage an invasion. Additionally, while we were working on the Manhattan Project, they were working on a bilogical weapon to be used against us to try and force our surrender. :evil:


Sure, they attacked Pearl Harbor. That doesn't justify nuking them! Nobody deserves that. It affects not only the generation bombed, but affects future generations as well. Not to mention all the radiation it pumped into the atmosphere, and how all that radiation affects nature. Nuclear bombs (or nuclear anything for that matter) are just irresponsible.

And never, ever, anywhere in any history show, book, or anything, have I seen this garbage you're spewing about them developing a bio-weapon. I took a good chunk of history lessons from my father who, mind you, is as well-read as a professor on matters of history, has been so since he was a child,, and has told me all he knows about the bombings in Japan. Never have I heard that crap from him. Which reminds me, where'd you get your info from? :|

And that stuff about other civilizations being better off with white people? I don't even know where to start thrashing you for that crap. A great majority of those societies had survived for centuries or longer without our interference. One exapmle of whites "helping" them is sending them vaccines with thimerasol (mercury based preservative) in them. I call that poisoning. I could name a million other things, but I'm sure you can get past your painfully obvious white supremacy and look it up yourself.



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18 Aug 2005, 4:30 pm

Blacks have been treated like shite. Irish have been treated like shite. Jews have been treated like shite. Native Americans are on the endangered species list practically. The list goes on.

Bigotry is bigotry and never changes except at whom.

I am guilty of not growing up in a diverse culture. I don't know many black people. Simply because we don't live near each other in most cases. Skin is nothing but an excuse.

I think in many cases, such things come from poverty and continued segregation.

I have noticed that with some black women/teenagers I've met (which granted are few) there is a certain harshness and lack of courtesy. But these are usually the younger set. Though I have met white women who can act just the same. And I have also met many bitchy uptown women driving their Lexus or Mercedes who I feel can be just as rude, with a full flavored hint of utter snobbery.

In short, human nature can always be repulsive, and it doesn't matter the skin, the status, or the wealth.


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18 Aug 2005, 4:36 pm

tokaia wrote:
Sean wrote:
tokaia wrote:
The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.

Sure it did. They sank a substantial portion of our Pacific Fleet, killed thousands of sailors and troops unprovoked, waged a war of agression across the the Pacific, comitted crimes against humanity against soldiers and white settlers alike, and tried to occupy islands near Northern Australia and the West Coast of the US to stage an invasion. Additionally, while we were working on the Manhattan Project, they were working on a bilogical weapon to be used against us to try and force our surrender. :evil:


Sure, they attacked Pearl Harbor. That doesn't justify nuking them! Nobody deserves that. It affects not only the generation bombed, but affects future generations as well. Not to mention all the radiation it pumped into the atmosphere, and how all that radiation affects nature. Nuclear bombs (or nuclear anything for that matter) are just irresponsible.

And never, ever, anywhere in any history show, book, or anything, have I seen this garbage you're spewing about them developing a bio-weapon. I took a good chunk of history lessons from my father who, mind you, is as well-read as a professor on matters of history, has been so since he was a child,, and has told me all he knows about the bombings in Japan. Never have I heard that crap from him. Which reminds me, where'd you get your info from? :|

And that stuff about other civilizations being better off with white people? I don't even know where to start thrashing you for that crap. A great majority of those societies had survived for centuries or longer without our interference. One exapmle of whites "helping" them is sending them vaccines with thimerasol (mercury based preservative) in them. I call that poisoning. I could name a million other things, but I'm sure you can get past your painfully obvious white supremacy and look it up yourself.


I had a history buff teacher once who told me that FDR knew about the bombing and actually forced the Japs' hand to attack. Kinda like how Lincoln forced the South to fire on Sumpter and earlier with President Polk and the whole Rio Grande.


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18 Aug 2005, 7:54 pm

Sean wrote:

tokaia wrote:
Whites have dilluted the world. They have taken advantage of the natives of various countries. They have slaughtered countless in the name of Christianity. They've spoiled a good amount of the planet. And in many countries we've infected, we've quickly turned the natives into the minority of the population, and discriminated against them as if they don't belong there, or have no right to be there.

We advanced science and technology that provided new resurces to the natives. There were a few wrongs comitted, but overall, their societies are better off. Look at Africa: Before the European settlers came, most of the tribes were living in the stone age and did not have medicine. The European settlers built up as close to modern communities as possible while the natives continued to live largely traditional lifestyles for several centuries. During this time, traders did buy tribes captured and sold by rival tribes or sometimes even by their own cheifs, but very few settlers were involved with that. I know that South Africa was very discriminatory towards blacks, but I don't know much else about it. I do know that South Africa didn't start to become ghetto until the natives took near complete control of the government. The same thing happened with Zimbabwe and now that mess is often newsworthy. It would seem that the science, medicine, and infastructure that the Europeans spread all over the world cannot be sustained by some cultures and breaks down with out being led and managed by someone who is trained in a European school of thought. The situations in Africa and a few other formerly colonized places around the world are starting to make it look like "white man's burden" has been unfairly demonized by liberal historians over a couple of mistakes".


I should've known that was coming, the ole', "Those African savages are better off with whites civilizing them," argument. Because that's exactly what you're saying when you make assumptions like this, that Africans were essentially the stereotypical jungle dwellers with bones in their noses, wearing grass skirts and had no values, intellect or culture before the Europeans "rescued" them from their "plight".

If you study African history, however, you'll find that not only was Africa the bedrock of civilization but it was where mathmatics had its origins, at one time, one of the most prestigious institutions of learning was in Timbuktu and contrary to myth, the population was primarily Muslim and morals and education were extremely important to African cultures.

Sean, I understand you're rather young and many things that you say are out of ignorance, not out of any intentional maliciousness on your part. It would greatly benefit your world view if you took some world and African-American history courses on a university level. You'll find that many things you've been taught are, at best, misleading or worse, based on racist myths.


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tallgirl
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18 Aug 2005, 10:43 pm

Quote:
Many cultures have fought and conquered. But whites have spewed their kind all across the planet, infecting every corner, wiping out countless cultures and civilizations (often in the name of their stupid religions).


The only reason that was possible is because we had advanced technology and were able to use it. One cannot assume that because other societies did not possess such technology, that those societies would not have used it in the same way. Believing otherwise makes you uneducated and an makes you an idiot.

Quote:
The Native Americans fought eachother, sure. But we killed most of them off because of our greed for THEIR land. The ones that were left were forced to live on tiny reservations with sh*tty soil that is poor for farming.


It is the same old story. The Chinese did it to the Hmong peoples, the Japanese did it to the Hawaiins...Had the Native Americans had the ability or wherewithal to trudge back across the Bering Strait, into Siberia, they would have done the same things to the natives there. Why must you feel bad about a situation that has nothing to do with you, here in the present? It really has nothing to do with your day to day life, so hating yourself, or your ancestors is such a waste of energy and time in my opinion. You obviously lead a very carefree life to care so much.

Quote:
The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.


I think the half of my family, which is Japanese, would not agree with you. I am sure their families who were obliterated in Hiroshima and had nothing to do with the War would not agree with you. The genetic implications of nuking those innocent will people will continue to reverberate.

Quote:
Blacks? If there were no demand, slavery wouldn't have happened. Perhaps the settlers should have done their own cotton picking. Lazy assholes.


This shows your lack of education and idiocy also. Africans, including Egyptians, were enslaving rival tribes, to do their grunge work long before the whites came along. For once, I actually agree with Sean and must point out that white peoples from Britain did the same thing to the Irish, long before they picked on Africa.

Quote:
What about the Aborigines in Australia?


What about them?

Quote:
Africa? Where'd all the whities come from?
Quote:

I believe that is a rhetorical question. The word "rhetorical" appears in Webster's Online Dictionary.

Quote:
Whites have dilluted the world. They have taken advantage of the natives of various countries. They have slaughtered countless in the name of Christianity. They've spoiled a good amount of the planet. And in many countries we've infected, we've quickly turned the natives into the minority of the population, and discriminated against them as if they don't belong there, or have no right to be there.



Quote:
I'm not the idiot here, dearie.


I really think your mirror needs to be polished and that a high school education, or maybe a little more informative fact-based research would help you overcome your disability. There are many federal programs which would be of a great service to you. You are correct, that you did not state whites were the only race to commit atrocities, however, to make such bold statements, lacking a shred of dual thought, shows your lack of thought and education.

Tallgirl.



tallgirl
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18 Aug 2005, 11:12 pm

Quote:
If you study African history, however, you'll find that not only was Africa the bedrock of civilization but it was where mathmatics had its origins, at one time, one of the most prestigious institutions of learning was in Timbuktu and contrary to myth, the population was primarily Muslim and morals and education were extremely important to African cultures.


Bravo, finally an educated person, who has researched and gathered facts. Africa was The place for mathematics, astronomy and literature. Africa possessed the most amazing libraries and their peoples were educated and large populations were literate.

I must also add that they made advances in medicine and I have used some of their traditional healing methods (along with Asian methods), which are thousands of years old and they are much better, for me personally, than the majority of Western or allopathic traditions.

I disagree with pretty much everything Sean says and I do believe also that it is the folly of youth, which causes him such to harbor such beliefs and not necessarily malice, although sometimes it is hard to tell.

I just wish more people would take the time read and research these facts for the discussions we have. For me, University was an eye opening experience and I changed many of my beliefs and opinions of peoples of the world by studying and making an effort to learn.

Back to the African-American women topic: I think when you grow up with store owners following you around, to make sure you don't steal and people, in general, treating you as an inferior person, because of something like skin color, a little chip on the old shoulder is understandable.

My Irish ancestors were treated in the very same manner, they weren't hired for jobs, people would not sell goods to them, they were spit on, abused and weren't allowed to live in the same neighborhoods (in fact the Irish lived in the first ghettos here in the US). To this day my family believes the saying, "Never trust the English for they talk out both sides of their faces." My Dad's best friend is English, but I must say, my Dad was pretty tentative to start a friendship with the man, just because that saying had been beaten into my Dad's subconcious. However, after a few shots of whiskey, the issue was resolved. :)

I have had African American girl friends and they have told me that their attitude is a defense mechanism and that once they get to know someone, they feel they can let their guard down and soften the attitude. I don't know if that is true for African-American women in general, but it was true for them. By the way, statistics show that African-American teenage girls have much higher self-esteem than other races, because their mothers raise them to be strong, independent women and to be vocal and assertive.

I feel Sean, however homophobic and racist I personally think he is, has come into my life for a purpose, in order to remind me there are inflexible people out there and not everyone feels the same way I do.

I will now step off of my soap box, finally. :wink:

Tallgirl.



vetivert
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19 Aug 2005, 1:18 am

a few personal comments creeping into what's become an interesting and educational thread - keep it clean, eh?



Sean
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19 Aug 2005, 3:09 am

tallgirl wrote:
Quote:
If you study African history, however, you'll find that not only was Africa the bedrock of civilization but it was where mathmatics had its origins, at one time, one of the most prestigious institutions of learning was in Timbuktu and contrary to myth, the population was primarily Muslim and morals and education were extremely important to African cultures.


Bravo, finally an educated person, who has researched and gathered facts. Africa was The place for mathematics, astronomy and literature. Africa possessed the most amazing libraries and their peoples were educated and large populations were literate.

I must also add that they made advances in medicine and I have used some of their traditional healing methods (along with Asian methods), which are thousands of years old and they are much better, for me personally, than the majority of Western or allopathic traditions....

Then what happened? What ever became of all this knowledge? Why can't African political leaders and warlords do anything but let their countries slide into poverty, promote courruption, civil war, genocide, and famine by selling off their contries food supplies for their own personal gain? And where do I even begin to start with their AIDS epidemic? It seems to me that little has changed since the era of chiefs selling their tribes into slavery and that the blacks would be better off under the rule of a European colony until they coud learn how to run a country properly. That seems to be half the problem with the current governments in Africa. If ruling white governments gradually integrated the blacks into the political system and into traditionally all white communities without using any programs equivalent to affirmative action, maybe most of the CNN stories out of Africa could have been avoided?

tallgirl wrote:
I have had African American girl friends and they have told me that their attitude is a defense mechanism and that once they get to know someone, they feel they can let their guard down and soften the attitude. I don't know if that is true for African-American women in general, but it was true for them. By the way, statistics show that African-American teenage girls have much higher self-esteem than other races, because their mothers raise them to be strong, independent women and to be vocal and assertive.

Is it possible to teach them to be strong and assertive without causing a defensive stimulus that makes me want to mace them?

I feel Sean, however homophobic and racist I personally think he is, has come into my life for a purpose, in order to remind me there are inflexible people out there and not everyone feels the same way I do.[/quote]
Same here, but it does make a fun debate. :wink:



tokaia
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19 Aug 2005, 5:20 am

tallgirl wrote:
tokaia wrote:
Many cultures have fought and conquered. But whites have spewed their kind all across the planet, infecting every corner, wiping out countless cultures and civilizations (often in the name of their stupid religions).


tallgirl wrote:
The only reason that was possible is because we had advanced technology and were able to use it. One cannot assume that because other societies did not possess such technology, that those societies would not have used it in the same way. Believing otherwise makes you uneducated and an makes you an idiot.


tokaia wrote:
The Native Americans fought eachother, sure. But we killed most of them off because of our greed for THEIR land. The ones that were left were forced to live on tiny reservations with sh*tty soil that is poor for farming.


tallgirl wrote:
It is the same old story. The Chinese did it to the Hmong peoples, the Japanese did it to the Hawaiins...Had the Native Americans had the ability or wherewithal to trudge back across the Bering Strait, into Siberia, they would have done the same things to the natives there. Why must you feel bad about a situation that has nothing to do with you, here in the present? It really has nothing to do with your day to day life, so hating yourself, or your ancestors is such a waste of energy and time in my opinion. You obviously lead a very carefree life to care so much.


tokaia wrote:
The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.


tallgirl wrote:
I think the half of my family, which is Japanese, would not agree with you. I am sure their families who were obliterated in Hiroshima and had nothing to do with the War would not agree with you. The genetic implications of nuking those innocent will people will continue to reverberate.


Thats what I was saying. Geeze, do you have to misread everything?:roll:

tokaia wrote:
Blacks? If there were no demand, slavery wouldn't have happened. Perhaps the settlers should have done their own cotton picking. Lazy assholes.


tallgirl wrote:
This shows your lack of education and idiocy also. Africans, including Egyptians, were enslaving rival tribes, to do their grunge work long before the whites came along. For once, I actually agree with Sean and must point out that white peoples from Britain did the same thing to the Irish, long before they picked on Africa.


tokaia wrote:
What about the Aborigines in Australia?


tallgirl wrote:
What about them?


tokaia wrote:
Africa? Where'd all the whities come from?


tallgirl wrote:
I believe that is a rhetorical question. The word "rhetorical" appears in Webster's Online Dictionary.


tokaia wrote:
Whites have dilluted the world. They have taken advantage of the natives of various countries. They have slaughtered countless in the name of Christianity. They've spoiled a good amount of the planet. And in many countries we've infected, we've quickly turned the natives into the minority of the population, and discriminated against them as if they don't belong there, or have no right to be there.



tokaia wrote:
I'm not the idiot here, dearie.


tallgirl wrote:
I really think your mirror needs to be polished and that a high school education, or maybe a little more informative fact-based research would help you overcome your disability. There are many federal programs which would be of a great service to you. You are correct, that you did not state whites were the only race to commit atrocities, however, to make such bold statements, lacking a shred of dual thought, shows your lack of thought and education.

Tallgirl.


I'm tired of seeing "idiot" splashed all over your ridiculous post. I'm not the idiot here. I have no "disability" other than my AS (which I don't see as a disability). I have a full highschool education. My father taught me much about history. Iam extremely well-read in various subjects. I have no lack of education.

Perhaps you'd be more successful calling someone else an idiot. :|

You're acting as thought you're the only one with any amount of a brain. Quit being so uppity.



vetivert
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19 Aug 2005, 5:52 am

second reminder - this thread is teetering on the brink of personal slanging matches again. keep to the issue and not the person, please.



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19 Aug 2005, 5:45 pm

tallgirl wrote:
Quote:
The Japanese? Nuked 'em. Punishment didn't even fit the crime.

...The genetic implications of nuking those innocent will people will continue to reverberate...

You know what they say, two heads are better than one. :lol: