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marshall
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08 Mar 2008, 4:22 pm

ouinon wrote:
marshall wrote:
Mybelief in Christianity always felt phony. It felt like wishful thinking, just like Santa Claus.

Why do people think there's a problem with wishful thinking when it comes to believing in god, (despite the fact that it need not lead you into any kind of illusions, delusions, error, etc, and is not in flagrant contradiction of anything that you know)? Why are people who believe in god so often accused of this?


I don't have a problem with wishful thinking per say. I am just stating a fact that my childhood religious beliefs always felt phony to me. They never felt real. Maybe religion works for you but you != me.

FYI I do respect deists. I'm not on of the Richard Dawkins jerkoff atheists who calls everyone who believes in a higher purpose irrational and delusional. I just don't personally believe in a higher purpose. My brain isn't capable the feat and I think people should respect that.

My problem is strictly with organized religions such as Christianity. The concept of Christianity is contrary to my personal sense of morality. Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't feel there's a better way to put it. Bible God is an authoritarian as*hole. When I see people worshiping the Bible God it's like seeing people worshiping Joseph Stalin.



ouinon
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08 Mar 2008, 4:47 pm

marshall wrote:
My problem is strictly with organized religions such as Christianity. The concept of Christianity is contrary to my personal sense of morality. Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't feel there's a better way to put it. Bible God is an authoritarian as*hole. When I see people worshipping the Bible God it's like seeing people worshipping Joseph Stalin.
That reminds me of what i thought about jesus two and a half years ago; that he was a megalomaniac , "scientology-crossed with jones" style, responsible for a terrible mental black plague, of spreading a psychological big brother, and dragging people into more obsessive self-criticism, guilt and keeping up with the neighbours than ever before. I thought of jesus as one of the worst things that had happened to western civilisation.

Weird.

8)



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Mar 2008, 5:16 pm

Anyone who says "because"....



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Mar 2008, 6:24 pm

Should apologize. Being blindly hostile to a whole group of people isn't right or intelligent to do.

I may really not like certain atheists, such as Dawkins or Stalin, but I don't feel that way on the whole.

Same way goes with agnostics; I may like certain ones, but that's not a good reason to like them all indiscriminately.



MissPickwickian
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08 Mar 2008, 9:13 pm

Can someone please tell me what YEC is?


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Awesomelyglorious
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08 Mar 2008, 11:48 pm

MissPickwickian wrote:
Can someone please tell me what YEC is?

Young Earth Creationism



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08 Mar 2008, 11:51 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
MissPickwickian wrote:
Can someone please tell me what YEC is?

Young Earth Creationism


EEEwwww. Young Earth Creationism? Now I'm nauseated.


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Awesomelyglorious
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09 Mar 2008, 12:06 am

MissPickwickian wrote:

EEEwwww. Young Earth Creationism? Now I'm nauseated.

Well, be glad that you are Catholic instead of a conservative Protestant. Catholicism cares less about beliefs on creation, and do not dismiss evolution unlike other Christian groups.



aspergian_mutant
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09 Mar 2008, 1:16 am

Hey, maybe I am wanting to be evil for a change and feel rightly deserving to be so and do not want some spry Cristian telling me I cant.
so there...



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Mar 2008, 1:30 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
MissPickwickian wrote:

EEEwwww. Young Earth Creationism? Now I'm nauseated.

Well, be glad that you are Catholic instead of a conservative Protestant. Catholicism cares less about beliefs on creation, and do not dismiss evolution unlike other Christian groups.


Although there may be wackos like Hovind, there are also scientists who reject evolution on its lack of scientific merit. Parts of evolution, like natural selection, are valid, but on the whole it is not. YEC is about more than biology though. ID touches on this topic only although it never spells out who the Designer is. After I get a Ph.D I intend to do research that would test and refine current theories. A country without the ACLU (or the like thereof) would be only kind I could publish papers in, so that is one reason I'm leaving America.



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09 Mar 2008, 1:39 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Although there may be wackos like Hovind, there are also scientists who reject evolution on its lack of scientific merit. Parts of evolution, like natural selection, are valid, but on the whole it is not. YEC is about more than biology though. ID touches on this topic only although it never spells out who the Designer is. After I get a Ph.D I intend to do research that would test and refine current theories. A country without the ACLU (or the like thereof) would be only kind I could publish papers in, so that is one reason I'm leaving America.

YEC is about a lot of different propositions that are currently scientifically questionable but technically unfalsifiable. ID is also lacking in scientific merit though, from the very beginning it starts off with an unscientific hypothesis, as there is no way of testing to see if something is designed from an unknown power. Where would you go to though? Frankly, America has the best universities, a good number of universities, a good amount of research spending, and is one of the most conservative nations in the world.



marshall
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09 Mar 2008, 2:09 am

ouinon wrote:
marshall wrote:
My problem is strictly with organized religions such as Christianity. The concept of Christianity is contrary to my personal sense of morality. Sorry to be so blunt, but I don't feel there's a better way to put it. Bible God is an authoritarian as*hole. When I see people worshipping the Bible God it's like seeing people worshipping Joseph Stalin.
That reminds me of what i thought about jesus two and a half years ago; that he was a megalomaniac , "scientology-crossed with jones" style, responsible for a terrible mental black plague, of spreading a psychological big brother, and dragging people into more obsessive self-criticism, guilt and keeping up with the neighbours than ever before. I thought of jesus as one of the worst things that had happened to western civilisation.

Weird.

8)


Actually I don't think Jesus was a bad guy. He was a narcissist with a bit of a temper (see fig tree cursing) but overall he had more good teachings than bad. OTOH I think Paul was completely nuts. He’s the guy who put the psychotic OT god back into the NT and added all that fire and brimstone crap.

Protestants in America tend to go for the old school fire and brimstone teachings of Paul. If you don’t accept Jesus into your heart you’re gonna burn in hell. The Catholics don’t seem quite as insane, but I come from a protestant background so that’s what I’m familiar with.



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Mar 2008, 3:06 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Although there may be wackos like Hovind, there are also scientists who reject evolution on its lack of scientific merit. Parts of evolution, like natural selection, are valid, but on the whole it is not. YEC is about more than biology though. ID touches on this topic only although it never spells out who the Designer is. After I get a Ph.D I intend to do research that would test and refine current theories. A country without the ACLU (or the like thereof) would be only kind I could publish papers in, so that is one reason I'm leaving America.

YEC is about a lot of different propositions that are currently scientifically questionable but technically unfalsifiable. ID is also lacking in scientific merit though, from the very beginning it starts off with an unscientific hypothesis, as there is no way of testing to see if something is designed from an unknown power. Where would you go to though? Frankly, America has the best universities, a good number of universities, a good amount of research spending, and is one of the most conservative nations in the world.


I'm thinking about Australia or maybe New Zealand. America was one of the most conservative nations, but it is quickly deteriorating from that. Australia is fairly liberal, but they have a good educational system which is affordable too and there is no organization similar to the ACLU or whatnot. There may be plenty of good colleges here, but financial aid is nonexistent to me since my stepdad makes too much money. Next year, by my age, I will no longer be considered a dependent, so then I may get a Pell or Stafford or whatever.



Awesomelyglorious
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09 Mar 2008, 3:18 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I'm thinking about Australia or maybe New Zealand. America was one of the most conservative nations, but it is quickly deteriorating from that. Australia is fairly liberal, but they have a good educational system which is affordable too and there is no organization similar to the ACLU or whatnot. There may be plenty of good colleges here, but financial aid is nonexistent to me since my stepdad makes too much money. Next year, by my age, I will no longer be considered a dependent, so then I may get a Pell or Stafford or whatever.

Deteriorating? Not really. Very few nations actually HAVE an ID movement. Australia also isn't *that* liberal for a developed nation, and easily can be considered one of the more conservative nations there. Honestly, from everything I have heard, America is one of the hottest places to be an academic no matter where you stand really.



iamnotaparakeet
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09 Mar 2008, 3:23 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I'm thinking about Australia or maybe New Zealand. America was one of the most conservative nations, but it is quickly deteriorating from that. Australia is fairly liberal, but they have a good educational system which is affordable too and there is no organization similar to the ACLU or whatnot. There may be plenty of good colleges here, but financial aid is nonexistent to me since my stepdad makes too much money. Next year, by my age, I will no longer be considered a dependent, so then I may get a Pell or Stafford or whatever.

Deteriorating? Not really. Very few nations actually HAVE an ID movement. Australia also isn't *that* liberal for a developed nation, and easily can be considered one of the more conservative nations there. Honestly, from everything I have heard, America is one of the hottest places to be an academic no matter where you stand really.


Well, thanks for your input. :)



marshall
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09 Mar 2008, 3:48 am

I don't think the ACLU can prevent someone from having an academic opinion or publishing papers supporting ID or creationism. There are plenty of academics with non-mainstream ideas in American universities.

The ACLU is merely against teaching creationism in public schools as it isn't the consensus among biologists. Why should creationism be given preferential treatment over other non-mainstream ideas such as cold fusion? Very few biologists are creationists just as very few physicists believe in cold fusion. If religion is the only reason then the case can be made that by teaching creationism the government is supporting the establishment of religion.