Teen severely maimed, possibly by Orthodox Jews

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monty
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07 Apr 2008, 9:37 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
You also have to think of how scripturally ignorant the common people were then. Even after Gutenberg the Catholic Church didn't want people interpreting the Bible for themselves.


Quite right. The problem with Catholicism is that it doesn't want people to know exactly what is in the Bible. The problem with Protestantism, on the other hand, is that they believe that everyone has the right to misinterpret things on their own.



psych
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07 Apr 2008, 9:40 pm

skafather84 wrote:
psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Which landmines are you referring to? Again, source please. And again, Israel does not set up Palestinian children to be killed --


WTF!? Israeli troops use palestinian kids for target practice!

Read about this British peace activist who was killed for trying to save some of them

Quote:
A jury has ruled that a British activist shot while acting as a human shield in the Gaza Strip was "intentionally killed".

Tom Hurndall, from north London, was wearing an orange jacket to mark him out as a peace activist.

The 22-year-old had apparently been trying to move young Palestinian children from the line of fire when he was hit in the head. He was left in a coma and died nine months later.
.....

Ms Hurndall said she had received an email from Tom on April 11, just hours before the shooting. He reported being "shot at, gassed and chased" by soldiers during the five days he was in Rafah and described the danger that both he and the Palestinians were facing.

.....

Mr Hurndall's father, Anthony, told the hearing that his son and other activists from the ISM had gone out to try and block tanks that had been shooting into houses at random.

He said Tom had seen a group of ten to 15 children playing on a mound of sand, and noticed that bullets were hitting the ground between them. The children fled, but several were overcome with fear and could not move.

"Tom went to take one girl out of the line of fire, which he did successfully, but when he went back, as he knelt down [to collect another], he was shot."

Mr Hurndall said the Israelis had initially admitted someone had been shot, but claimed it had been a gunman who had opened fire first.

After photographs of Tom having been shot in the head emerged, the Israeli military later admitted that Hayb - a sentry who had won prizes for marksmanship - had shot him using telescopic sights.

"They just lied continuously," Mr Hurndall's father said. "It was a case of them shooting civilians and then making up a story. And they were not used to being challenged."

There had been a "general policy" for soldiers to be able to shoot civilians in that area without fear of reprisals, he added.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/apr/10/israel1



you're wasting your time. your source doesn't confirm his world view and so it's not a valid source. he's already done it with me. my advice would be to just ignore him. he's a wackjob delusional narcissist.


especially wouldn't work since the guardian is way more liberal than bbc news.


The source isnt very relevant in this particular example, as it consists of several apparently contextual quotes & verifiable facts from external sources (like verdicts reached in courtrooms) But its been reported in the 'conservative' press too (telegraph.co.uk) then theres always wikipedia of course...



hyperbolic
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07 Apr 2008, 10:30 pm

Unfortunately, it seems every religion has its extremists. Those responsible for severely injuring this young man should be quickly and justly punished.



iamnotaparakeet
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07 Apr 2008, 11:03 pm

hyperbolic wrote:
Unfortunately, it seems every religion has its extremists. Those responsible for severely injuring this young man should be quickly and justly punished.


The perpetrators are, as of yet, unknown. Could be Haresim or Jihadis or someone else.



greenblue
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08 Apr 2008, 12:21 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I've seen the same done to conservative news sources by liberals; I'd say it would be close to a generality that people only listen to what they agree with.

That goes in every way, whatever appeals to you more, haven't you listen only to what you agree with or appeals to you more sometimes?


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whatamess
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08 Apr 2008, 12:31 am

OK, read the article, but I just have to ask...is ORTIZ a Jewish surname? If so, I'm starting to figure out my roots...hmmm



history_of_psychiatry
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08 Apr 2008, 8:20 am

I don't condone the violent act that was commited, but i really don't feel bad for people who believe in procelytizing others. Well, I DO feel bad for people who believe in proselytizing others, but i don't usually feel bad when something bad happens to them.


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Ragtime
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08 Apr 2008, 11:28 am

Phagocyte wrote:
zendell wrote:
Christians would never kill innocent people.


Except for the crusades. And all those abortion clinic bombings.


Well, just for accuracy's sake, please list innocent people. People who kill babies for a living? Not so much.


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Ragtime
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08 Apr 2008, 11:31 am

Phagocyte wrote:
But I don't think religion is "bad;" I see religious intolerance as just an outlet for good 'ol fashioned human bigotry. If prejudice and hatred can't take the form of religion, it would just find some other form.


You have a strong point. Religion is very often abused, just as much as any other element that can be used as an excuse for improper behavior.

The key to seeing through to the truths beyond that level of sight is in analyzing what the particular religion teaches. For instance, does Christianity teach: "Kill the infidel wherever you find him", as the Koran does? (See suras 2.191; 4.89; 5.33; 8.12; 8.65; 9.5.)

What are Christian churches teaching today, regarding "unbelievers", people who don't agree with us? They are teaching us to talk to them about Jesus. Conversion by conversation.
What do Mosques teach today regarding us "infidels"? They teach that the infidel must be converted -- if necessary, "by the sword". Conversion by force. See, Islam is still is Crusades mode, whereas Christendom has advance into the more modern approach of talking to people without pressuring them in any way. We do this because we believe that if conversion to Christ is not fully of a person's will, it doesn't happen.


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Ragtime
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08 Apr 2008, 11:51 am

psych wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Which landmines are you referring to? Again, source please. And again, Israel does not set up Palestinian children to be killed --


WTF!? Israeli troops use palestinian kids for target practice!

Read about this British peace activist who was killed for trying to save some of them


No one needs to "save" Palestinian children from anyone other than their own parents, who are known for strapping bombs to their children, and sending them into cafés. Is that clearly stated enough?

I love your ridiculous insinuation, BTW, as if to say, "Oh, the Israeli soldiers were trying to shoot Palestinian children..." :roll: "And when someone blocked their sights to kill little children, they shot him, angry that they could not kill the little helpless children!" Good grief. I'm not familiar with the background of the story, but Israel does not shoot people who are clearly there to promote peace. (Peace by means other than violence, I must emphasize, because the Palestinians' version of "peace" is continuous all-out terror bombings. The alternate, yet related, Palestinian definition of "peace" is all Jews "pushed into the sea". Other than that, they're a charming people!)


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08 Apr 2008, 12:00 pm

skafather84 wrote:
i think bbc news is pretty conservative.


Mr. Sulu: "OH... MY!"


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skafather84
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08 Apr 2008, 12:06 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Phagocyte wrote:
zendell wrote:
Christians would never kill innocent people.


Except for the crusades. And all those abortion clinic bombings.


Well, just for accuracy's sake, please list innocent people. People who kill babies for a living? Not so much.



see? psycho with no grasp of reality and no value for life but rather just instead his own delusions of the world.



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08 Apr 2008, 12:06 pm

whatamess wrote:
OK, read the article, but I just have to ask...is ORTIZ a Jewish surname? If so, I'm starting to figure out my roots...hmmm


Due to 2,000 years of intermarriage, there are Jews of every ethnicity in the world. They kept their religion as Jews, and many Gentiles also converted to Judaism, making them Jews. Also, many Jews, due to often-violent anti-Semitic persecution, changed their surnames. I personally know a Martinez who is both ethnically and religiously Jewish.


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08 Apr 2008, 12:11 pm

history_of_psychiatry wrote:
i really don't feel bad for people who believe in procelytizing others. Well, I DO feel bad for people who believe in proselytizing others, but i don't usually feel bad when something bad happens to them.


Okay. Then God won't feel bad for you if you have trouble getting into Heaven without His help. Why should He?
"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you" (Matt 7:1-2).

Just making sure you know.


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08 Apr 2008, 12:29 pm

Quote:

Source?

I'm touched by your concern for the Israeli boy I mentioned. Oh, wait, you didn't show any. While he's bleeding and screaming from re[constructive surgery, you can sit back in your smug satisfaction or indifference -- whichever of those inhuman reactions you prefer.




I'm touched for your concern to make sure the actual facts are gotten out I'mnotaparkeet. At least you didn't put up a title that could incite unwarranted negative feelings towards and options aboutt a particular religion, or branch of religion like "Teen severely maimed, possibly by Orthodox Jews" when as the article clearly states the two groups under suspicioun are Arab terrorists and anti-missionary Orthodox Jews. Putting up a title like that is no different than writing "Christians disturb funerals and hurl insults at attending family members" to introduce an article about the Westboro Baptist church. I've no doubt you'd protest if one of us did something like that


Looks to see your title. Oh wait, you did unfairly write your title to associate all Orthodox Jews with the torture of a teen.