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Do You think President Bush is a nutter?
Yes 26%  26%  [ 20 ]
Yes 26%  26%  [ 20 ]
No, but he is not good for the world. 12%  12%  [ 9 ]
No, but he is not good for the world. 12%  12%  [ 9 ]
No, he is a good guy. 9%  9%  [ 7 ]
No, he is a good guy. 9%  9%  [ 7 ]
Don't Know 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Don't Know 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 76

RobertN
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08 Oct 2005, 10:18 am

INDEPENDENT REPORT

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq
President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'


By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
Published: 07 October 2005

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.

From the outset he has couched the "global war on terror" in quasi-religious terms, as a struggle between good and evil. Al-Qa'ida terrorists are routinely described as evil-doers. For Mr Bush, the invasion of Iraq has always been part of the struggle against terrorism, and he appears to see himself as the executor of the divine will.

He told Bob Woodward - whose 2004 book, Plan of Attack, is the definitive account of the administration's road to war in Iraq - that after giving the order to invade in March 2003, he walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". As he went into this critical period, he told Mr Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will.

"I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."

Another telling sign of Mr Bush's religion was his answer to Mr Woodward's question on whether he had asked his father - the former president who refused to launch a full-scale invasion of Iraq after driving Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991 - for advice on what to do.

The current President replied that his earthly father was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice ... there is a higher father that I appeal to".

The same sense of mission permeated his speech at the National Endowment of Democracy yesterday. Its main news was Mr Bush's claim that Western security services had thwarted 10 planned attacks by al-Qa'ida since 11 September 2001, three of them against mainland US.

More striking though was his unrelenting portrayal of radical Islam as a global menace, which only the forces of freedom - led by the US - could repel. It was delivered at a moment when Mr Bush's domestic approval ratings are at their lowest ebb, in large part because of the war in Iraq, in which 1,950 US troops have died, with no end in sight.

It came amid continuing violence on the ground, nine days before the critical referendum on the new constitution that offers perhaps the last chance of securing a unitary and democratic Iraq. "The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region" and set up a radical empire stretching from Spain to Indonesia, he said.

The insurgents' aim was to "enslave whole nations and intimidate the world". He portrayed Islamic radicals as a single global movement, from the Middle East to Chechnya and Bali and the jungles of the Philippines.

He rejected claims that the US military presence in Iraq was fuelling terrorism: 11 September 2001 occurred long before American troops set foot in Iraq - and Russia's opposition to the invasion did not stop terrorists carrying out the Beslan atrocity in which 300 children died.

Mr Bush also accused Syria and Iran of supporting radical groups. They "have a long history of collaboration with terrorists and they deserve no patience". The US, he warned, "makes no distinction between those who commit acts of terror and those who support and harbour them because they're equally as guilty of murder".

"Wars are not won without sacrifice and this war will require more sacrifice, more time and more resolve," Mr Bush declared. But progress was being made in Iraq, and, he proclaimed: "We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory."

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.

From the outset he has couched the "global war on terror" in quasi-religious terms, as a struggle between good and evil. Al-Qa'ida terrorists are routinely described as evil-doers. For Mr Bush, the invasion of Iraq has always been part of the struggle against terrorism, and he appears to see himself as the executor of the divine will.

He told Bob Woodward - whose 2004 book, Plan of Attack, is the definitive account of the administration's road to war in Iraq - that after giving the order to invade in March 2003, he walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". As he went into this critical period, he told Mr Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will.

"I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."
Another telling sign of Mr Bush's religion was his answer to Mr Woodward's question on whether he had asked his father - the former president who refused to launch a full-scale invasion of Iraq after driving Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991 - for advice on what to do.

The current President replied that his earthly father was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice ... there is a higher father that I appeal to".

The same sense of mission permeated his speech at the National Endowment of Democracy yesterday. Its main news was Mr Bush's claim that Western security services had thwarted 10 planned attacks by al-Qa'ida since 11 September 2001, three of them against mainland US.

More striking though was his unrelenting portrayal of radical Islam as a global menace, which only the forces of freedom - led by the US - could repel. It was delivered at a moment when Mr Bush's domestic approval ratings are at their lowest ebb, in large part because of the war in Iraq, in which 1,950 US troops have died, with no end in sight.

It came amid continuing violence on the ground, nine days before the critical referendum on the new constitution that offers perhaps the last chance of securing a unitary and democratic Iraq. "The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region" and set up a radical empire stretching from Spain to Indonesia, he said.

The insurgents' aim was to "enslave whole nations and intimidate the world". He portrayed Islamic radicals as a single global movement, from the Middle East to Chechnya and Bali and the jungles of the Philippines.

He rejected claims that the US military presence in Iraq was fuelling terrorism: 11 September 2001 occurred long before American troops set foot in Iraq - and Russia's opposition to the invasion did not stop terrorists carrying out the Beslan atrocity in which 300 children died.

Mr Bush also accused Syria and Iran of supporting radical groups. They "have a long history of collaboration with terrorists and they deserve no patience". The US, he warned, "makes no distinction between those who commit acts of terror and those who support and harbour them because they're equally as guilty of murder".

"Wars are not won without sacrifice and this war will require more sacrifice, more time and more resolve," Mr Bush declared. But progress was being made in Iraq, and, he proclaimed: "We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory."



Litguy
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08 Oct 2005, 10:48 am

The beginning of the article is misleading. There is a heck of a difference between saying "God would tell me..." as Bush does here and "God did tell me...." This can, and probably should, be read as Bush saying that he is following what he believes to be the will of God, rather than describing voices coming out of the night.

I'm not defending Bush or the war here. I'm just saying that this is a pretty cheap attack.



danlo
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08 Oct 2005, 11:08 am

While I cannot fault him for being devoted to God, I do think he should try to keep religion and government more separate than he does. By all means, use your morals when deciding governmental policies etc, but religion? Religion will bring a whole heap of trouble.



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08 Oct 2005, 11:19 am

danlo wrote:
...he should try to keep religion and government more separate than he does. By all means, use your morals when deciding governmental policies etc, but religion? Religion will bring a whole heap of trouble.


Couldn't agree more with this. Politics has a tendency to get more bloody and/or repressive and less based on reason as soon as someone brings their God into it... :roll:


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ed
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08 Oct 2005, 11:37 am

"God told me to do it"

This is nothing new. Other mass murderers have been claiming this forever.


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08 Oct 2005, 11:41 am

dubya has a bit of a problem justifying any attack on islamic terrorists, then - all jihad is about god telling someone to do it.

sauce for the goose...



Klytus
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08 Oct 2005, 12:56 pm

Lies.

Here's the Sydney Morning Herald with more on the *ahem* "story":

Quote:
Abbas denies Bush's 'mission from God' remark
October 8, 2005 - 12:23PM

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas has denied an account by another Palestinian official of a meeting with US President George Bush in which Bush is cited as saying he believed that God told him to go to war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

A statement in Abbas's name released by his office said an excerpt from an interview with Palestinian Information Minister Nabil Shaath due to be broadcast by the BBC in which Shaath described a meeting with Bush in June 2003 gave a "completely false" account.

In the interview for the series, Israel and the Arabs, Shaath described the meeting, at which he said Abbas was present.

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did. And then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.' And I did,'" Shaath said.

"This report is not true," the Abbas statement said today. "I have never heard President Bush talking about religion as a reason behind the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. President Bush has never mentioned that in front of me on any occasion and specifically not during my visit in 2003."

AP



RobertN
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08 Oct 2005, 3:25 pm

Litguy wrote:
The beginning of the article is misleading. There is a heck of a difference between saying "God would tell me..." as Bush does here and "God did tell me...." This can, and probably should, be read as Bush saying that he is following what he believes to be the will of God, rather than describing voices coming out of the night.

I'm not defending Bush or the war here. I'm just saying that this is a pretty cheap attack.


I don't care how Bush got these ideas into his puny little mind. I am not saying that people who hear Visions are nutters!! Quite the opposite, in fact.

However, the crime here is the fact that he is using his religious beliefs (or making them up!!) in order to justify a political and military decision in which many lives have been lost, and many more are at stake. This is surely very arrogant.

The reason he is a nutter is because he is hell-bent on his illegal foreign invasions, and he is using an unproved belief system such as Christianity to back it up.



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08 Oct 2005, 5:33 pm

GW....is...a...good...guy...he...has...done...good...job...he...will...be...in...the...history...books...for...sure...
as...the...best...President...we...in...America...have...ever...had...for...sure..............................................



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08 Oct 2005, 5:57 pm

No doubt he'll be in the history books, but he's starting to wear me out. I saw his state of the union a few days ago (Tuesday morning), and was really angered by his "dance around the question" style of answering. It's getting old.

As for religion, with or without that being true, he caters too much to Right-wing conservative Christians. He never bothers even asking what everyone wants, at least from what I can see. I know their's poles, but I 'd like to see him get down off his pedastal (sp?) and talk with the people. I'm OK with him being religious, but he's getting worse at justifying his actions and I rather not see God thrown into his barrel of excuses for some of the mistakes he's made.


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08 Oct 2005, 6:10 pm

AWWWWWOGAH
AWWWOOOOGAH
AWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

We have a nutter, on the loose, and running not just the madhouse but the country


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Mich
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08 Oct 2005, 6:19 pm

Oh, the irony.



Litguy
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08 Oct 2005, 6:32 pm

RobertN wrote:
However, the crime here is the fact that he is using his religious beliefs (or making them up!!) in order to justify a political and military decision in which many lives have been lost, and many more are at stake. This is surely very arrogant.
Yes, if Bush is making decisions of life and death based upon personal beliefs, he may well be wrong.

On the other hand, should such decisions be made solely on pragmatic grounds? I'm not certain.

After all: "There is good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and it is worth fighting for." :lol:



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08 Oct 2005, 6:44 pm

He...is...a...wearer...downer...but...histroy...will...prove...him...
right...then...his...brother...Jeb...will...be...come...our...new...President...for...
eight...more...years...then...the...world...will...be...a...better...place...for...all...
man...kind...



jb814
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08 Oct 2005, 7:13 pm

If God is speaking through the Shrub it might explain the speech problems, I'm guessing that English isn't Gods first language (weren't all the "original" texts in hebrew and greek and other such nonsense?) and the delays are dictionary breaks.
Anyway did anyone read the Fundametalism articles in New Scientist?



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08 Oct 2005, 10:57 pm

kevv729 wrote:
He...is...a...wearer...downer...but...histroy...will...prove...him...
right...then...his...brother...Jeb...will...be...come...our...new...President...for...
eight...more...years...then...the...world...will...be...a...better...place...for...all...
man...kind...


And if you don't stop with the ... after EVERY word, I will merely ignore your posts.

individualism is 1 thing, being a pain the the ass another.


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