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Should these refugees
Go back home and either face death at the hands of political militia or very possibly starve to death. 27%  27%  [ 3 ]
Stay in south africa and face brutality from angry locals. 73%  73%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 11

viska
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29 May 2008, 9:43 pm

Fred: There's virtually nothing to love about a country that's being run into the ground (350,000% inflation, obviously rigged elections, government sanctioned violence) by a pretty-much dictator who refuses to let go of his power while the rest of Africa turns a blind eye. As a citizen of Zimbabwe, the pragmatic choice is to flee. It doesn't make you weak, just smart. Even for something that seems innocent to someone living in the first world, such as publicly displaying support for the opposition political party, will draw the attention of Mugabe's cronies who will beat you up or kill you without a second thought. You sound ill-informed of the situation, I recommend reading more about it.



Bozewani
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29 May 2008, 10:10 pm

I find it outrageous that the people who are denouncing the Zimbabweans in South Africa really mean it.

Seriously, just because the Limpopo River is there, what does that mean?

Let's divide my town, wonderful shall we?

We can call this Scudderland

We can call this part Foxenia

and this part Ravenswana

now we have a problem.

Scudderland is the most developed country, and all of the people from Foxenia are going there, because of Zimbabwean style meltdown.

Now, let's get clubs and sticks and murder all of those people woohoo.

Mbeki, you should stop sleeping, otherwise you will wake up in hell.



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31 May 2008, 4:16 am

:(
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03 Jun 2008, 4:32 am

That's a disgusting way to go! Any one of us could end up a refugee so we can't afford to be hard-hearted. Too bad somebody couldn't assassinate Mugabe but then there are probably a number of other potential leaders even worse than him. He should never have been recognised by the UN as a valid leader of Zimbabwe.


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Fred2670
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03 Jun 2008, 5:10 am

You got to be kidding me. Stand tall and make a difference. There is power in numbers and even one good ninja can turn the tables. If you run, regardless of where you go, there you are. Where is your national pride? Take it back or blow it up. If you cant win make no apologies.. just a statement. You dont have to spend the rest of your life bent over.. if you must spend it, get two get three get ten


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pbcoll
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03 Jun 2008, 4:43 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
You got to be kidding me. Stand tall and make a difference. There is power in numbers and even one good ninja can turn the tables. If you run, regardless of where you go, there you are. Where is your national pride? Take it back or blow it up. If you cant win make no apologies.. just a statement. You dont have to spend the rest of your life bent over.. if you must spend it, get two get three get ten


Well-armed militaries are quite capable of putting down popular uprisings. They would neither take it back nor blow it up, they'd just end in a mass grave. It's already been tried (Matabeleland). It's easy to lecture destitute, unarmed refugees on taking on soldiers from the safety and comfort of the West.
For those refugees with no dependents, with no family or with a family outside the country, you have a point (and while revolutions normally end in tears, I don't see any other recourse for Zimbabwe) - but to ask them not just to die themselves, but to take their families down with them instead of fleeing the place is a bit too much. Mbeki, of course, could take down Mugabe but he has chosen to prop him up, a position made more disgraceful by the contrast with South Africa's dock workers and truckers.


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Orwell
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03 Jun 2008, 5:46 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
You got to be kidding me. Stand tall and make a difference. There is power in numbers and even one good ninja can turn the tables. If you run, regardless of where you go, there you are. Where is your national pride? Take it back or blow it up. If you cant win make no apologies.. just a statement. You dont have to spend the rest of your life bent over.. if you must spend it, get two get three get ten

Oh right, ninjas are going to take out a well-armed military force. :roll: Mugabe's got the guns, what is MDC supposed to do? Mbeki's not helping anything. What, so the Jews in France in the 1940s were to blame for their fate because they failed to rise up and defeat the Nazis?


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03 Jun 2008, 6:57 pm

Link to the Avaaz petition to stop weapons shipment to Zimbabwe:

We, the undersigned, call for your support in preventing any weapons shipments from reaching Zimbabwe until the crisis is resolved. We believe that, if delivered, these weapons would likely be used to violate the human rights of Zimbabweans, and we support the efforts of ordinary citizens and African trade unionists to prevent their transit through neighbouring countries. This shipment highlights the urgent need for a strong international arms trade treaty, and the continuing violence demands that all regional and global leaders act to protect human rights.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/no_arms_for_zim ... _tf_sign=1

So far it's got 101,768 signatures; add yours and show solidarity for the people falling victim to the madness.




Another one from Avaaz is: (Underlined parts are where it's been amended since the election)

Petition to Robert Mugabe, Thabo Mbeki, SADC, and world leaders:

We sign to support the democratic and human rights of the people of Zimbabwe. Election results must be released immediately, verified independently, and--if approved as legitimate--accepted by all parties. If a run-off is required The run-off should be monitored by international observers and be kept free of violence, fraud, and intimidation. World leaders, including South African President Thabo Mbeki, should do all they can to ensure a just result.

http://www.avaaz.org/en/democracy_for_zimbabwe/


So far this one has 158,461 signatures.



From the Avaaz.org website:

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Last Wednesday, a plane hired by Avaaz flew this massive banner over the United Nations headquarters as South African President Thabo Mbeki chaired a meeting of the Security Council. The flight, part of an effort to deliver the 150,000-signature global petition for democracy in Zimbabwe, was covered by press around the world:

AFP | BBC | CNN | SABC | SW Radio Africa | iAfrica | LA Times | Earth Times | And much more!

The next day, South Africa shifted its position. Thanks to all who took part!


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