Liberating Jesus from Christianity

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starchild
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26 May 2008, 12:30 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lZ-94pKGA2w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUtxsIRRaT0

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Last edited by starchild on 28 May 2008, 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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27 May 2008, 10:47 am

What would Christianity be without its founder, Jesus Christ?

If Jesus were liberated from Christianity [sic], where would He go?

Odin
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27 May 2008, 2:30 pm

I respect Jesus as a great moral teacher the same way I respect Socrates, Buddha, and Lao-Tzi. They were all people, not gods or demi-gods, but they were very wise people.

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monty
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27 May 2008, 2:33 pm

slowmutant wrote:

What would Christianity be without its founder, Jesus Christ?

Christianity has gotten along for all these years with little or no connection to the teachings of Jesus.

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27 May 2008, 3:37 pm

Uh, no. Christianity is predicated on the teachings of Jesus.

CHRIST- ianity.

It's in the name.

ouinon
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27 May 2008, 3:45 pm

"Liberate Jesus from Christianity" makes about as much sense as saying "Liberate Frodo from The Lord of the Rings" It's a narrative. Jesus is the main character in the story.

Or ... ... ... is it like saying liberate Sherlock Holmes and some other impressive characters from the ghastly film "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"?

It is true that the character Jesus was taken directly from earlier stories , gnostic mysteries, and eastern spritual teachings. So perhaps it is a useful angle. I remember thinking this when I found out about the Heavenly Twin etc of gnostic teachings, on which the Jesus character is based.

Okay. It works. Just I don't think that's what the guy in the film is talking about. I get the impression that he thinks Jesus actually existed in flesh and blood in Galilee betwen 00 and 33AD.

:study:

skafather84
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27 May 2008, 3:45 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Uh, no. Christianity is predicated on the teachings of Jesus.

CHRIST- ianity.

It's in the name.

compelling argument.

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27 May 2008, 3:51 pm

Quote:

Okay. It works. Just I don't think that's what the guy in the film is talking about. I get the impression that he thinks Jesus actually existed in flesh and blood in Galilee betwen 00 and 33AD.

A whole lot of people believed Jesus existed in the flesh between 0 and 33AD. It's not the nuttiest thing I've ever heard. I don't understand why anyone would want to deny His existence.

Ragtime
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27 May 2008, 3:53 pm

Odin wrote:

I respect Jesus as a great moral teacher the same way I respect Socrates, Buddha, and Lao-Tzi. They were all people, not gods or demi-gods, but they were very wise people.

Matthew 16:14-17:

Quote:

And they said, "Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets." He saith unto them, "But whom say ye that I am?" And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

So, see, He said He was not just another "great moral teacher", as you put it,
or just another prophet like John the Baptist, Elijah, or Jeremiah.
No, he was God in the flesh.

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Last edited by Ragtime on 27 May 2008, 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

skafather84
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27 May 2008, 3:57 pm

Ragtime wrote:

Odin wrote:

I respect Jesus as a great moral teacher the same way I respect Socrates, Buddha, and Lao-Tzi. They were all people, not gods or demi-gods, but they were very wise people.

Matthew 16:14-17:

Quote:

So, see, He said He was not just a "great moral teacher", as you put it,
or just a prophet like John the Baptist, Elijah, or Jeremiah.
No, he was God in the flesh.

because the bible is the absolute source for facts.

Ragtime
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27 May 2008, 3:57 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Odin wrote:

I respect Jesus as a great moral teacher the same way I respect Socrates, Buddha, and Lao-Tzi. They were all people, not gods or demi-gods, but they were very wise people.

Matthew 16:14-17:

Quote:

So, see, He said He was not just a "great moral teacher", as you put it,
or just a prophet like John the Baptist, Elijah, or Jeremiah.
No, he was God in the flesh.

because the bible is the absolute source for facts.

Among books written for mankind, yes, there is none with greater or more important facts.
It's why the printing press was invented,
and it's been the world's #1 bestseller since it was first published to the present age.

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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.

Last edited by Ragtime on 27 May 2008, 4:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

slowmutant
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27 May 2008, 4:00 pm

Facts? Maybe. Truth? Definitely.

skafather84
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27 May 2008, 4:04 pm

Ragtime wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Odin wrote:

I respect Jesus as a great moral teacher the same way I respect Socrates, Buddha, and Lao-Tzi. They were all people, not gods or demi-gods, but they were very wise people.

Matthew 16:14-17:

Quote:

So, see, He said He was not just a "great moral teacher", as you put it,
or just a prophet like John the Baptist, Elijah, or Jeremiah.
No, he was God in the flesh.

because the bible is the absolute source for facts.

i blame the gideons for the sales records.

and if it were unadulterated, maybe it'd be a little more legitimate as a source of information on the christian history but there's been massive amounts of editing done to the book just from the aramaic translation to greek and latin rather less the translations from there.

and let's not forget "gnostic" gospels that were burned because it was a sect of christianity that wasn't popular with constantine's crowd.

ouinon
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27 May 2008, 4:09 pm

slowmutant wrote:

ouinon wrote:

Okay. It works. Just I don't think that's what the guy in the film is talking about. I get the impression that he thinks Jesus actually existed in flesh and blood in Galilee betwen 00 and 33AD.

A whole lot of people believed Jesus existed in the flesh between 0 and 33AD.

That's your argument ? That a whole lot of people believe(d) it?

Quote:

It's not the nuttiest thing I've ever heard. I don't understand why anyone would want to deny His existence.

You can't imagine why people might want to deny that Jesus ever existed? Those who knew it was a story , and would have thought it the opposite of useful for people on the spiritual path to think that Jesus was a historical figure.

The people who lived in the first century would probably have found it even odder/funnier that so many people would end up believing that what was a narrative spiritual teaching tool, a character in a story for reaching greater understanding and enlightenment , had really existed.

It is a belief which has condemned Christian leaders to some of the most tortuous intellectual acrobatics in order to explain all the discrepancies which do not matter if it is a story.

:study:

Last edited by ouinon on 27 May 2008, 4:14 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Ragtime
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27 May 2008, 4:09 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

Odin wrote:

I respect Jesus as a great moral teacher the same way I respect Socrates, Buddha, and Lao-Tzi. They were all people, not gods or demi-gods, but they were very wise people.

Matthew 16:14-17:

Quote:

So, see, He said He was not just a "great moral teacher", as you put it,
or just a prophet like John the Baptist, Elijah, or Jeremiah.
No, he was God in the flesh.

because the bible is the absolute source for facts.

Well, that's a seperate discussion, but all you're trying to do (at best) is to cast doubt, and say that we Christians
might not have what God wants us to be reading -- even though the Bible's 66 books are fully consistent throughout.
Do you know any other 66 books in human history by many authors that all perfectly agree?

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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.

Last edited by Ragtime on 27 May 2008, 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ragtime
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27 May 2008, 4:13 pm

ouinon wrote:

It is a belief which has condemned ... leaders to some of the most tortuous intellectual acrobatics in order to explain all the discrepancies which do not matter if it is a story.

Sorry... You started me thinking of evolution again.

I forgot that evo is "SCIENTIFIC FACT!!11!!One1!1!", despite the complete lack of evidence for it.

But back to the subject of this thread...

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Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.

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