The Difference Between Right-Wing and Left-Wing

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Are Left or Right?
I'm Right-Wing 15%  15%  [ 14 ]
I'm Right-Wing 15%  15%  [ 14 ]
I'm Left-Wing 21%  21%  [ 20 ]
I'm Left-Wing 21%  21%  [ 20 ]
I don't honestly care 11%  11%  [ 10 ]
I don't honestly care 11%  11%  [ 10 ]
I have no idea... 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
I have no idea... 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 94

RobertN
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30 Oct 2005, 2:51 pm

I don't really want to get into an arguement with anybody, but I do get very fed up when right-wingers use the "Russia Stereotype" to discredit the idea of socialism. Russia is an extreme that went badly wrong!! There are many democracies in Western Europe that use a watered-down version of socialism, like Norway (which Eamonn kindly pointed out! :) ) and this works very well.



Sean
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30 Oct 2005, 11:38 pm

Conservatives heavily favor self determination over being dependent on a welfare state. You are not guaranteed a living above the poverty line, but you have an opportunity to earn a very nice living if you work for it. Many liberals are quick to criticize the inequality of such a system, but the poverty line in a modern industrial country looks like a desireable way to live to a person in a quasi-socialist third world country. To take it a step further, in the '50s and '60s, the Soviet Union used to use the segregation of blacks as the best evidence of inequality here (I'm not going to dispute this). What they didn't point out is that the blacks in America had about the same standard of living and as much personal liberty or political say as an average Soviet factory worker. Conservatives could give up personal responsibility and self determination in favor of a wefare state, but a government big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough and powerful enough to take it all away.



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30 Oct 2005, 11:43 pm

Nevermind, I'm more right than left wing. I still have no idea which party to pick, I'm so borderline it's hilarious. I've always gone by the definition of conservative and liberal, do they mean something different in political lingo? Because by definiton, I'm liberal.


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hecate
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31 Oct 2005, 12:16 am

Assassin wrote:
RobertN wrote:
Not everyone should have the same level of wealth either. Better some poor than all poor. I like having the opportunity to strive for wealth and success. Socialism is "let's all be poor together!" No thanks.


Better all a bit poor than some struggling to survive


*looks out of window to check for pigs flying past*

lowfreq50 wrote that quote- not RobertN.



RobertN
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31 Oct 2005, 9:53 am

Well spotted, Hecate, my dear!! !! ! :wink:

I certainly did not write that right-wing crap!! !! !! :lol:



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02 Nov 2005, 2:58 am

I can careless about right or left wing policies of any kind of political party system for they go to far one way or the other way for their own good.

What is truly needed is middle of the road approach it would be better for all. It would have to have a little of both right and left wings in a moderate way of doing things.

Capitalism is so ingrained into our society and world it would be hard to give it up, for this is the way the world works. The economies of the world are depended on capitalism.

That is why we need a little bit of both to succeed. We need to responsible both to the needs of the people and the economies. For they create the jobs for the people help us pay for the taxes for the needed services for us all.

That is why we need a middle road approach to do it. That I think is what need to be debated. Not if You are Right or Left Wingers.


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hylander
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02 Nov 2005, 11:48 am

8O

Is left-wing necessarily liberal or right-wing necessarily conservative?
In a beginning polisci class, I remember the following "x-y chart":
libertarian
liberal conservative
populist

Liberal: large state/social responsibility/high corporate regulation, low restriction in moral policy.
Libertarian: small state/individual responsibility/low corporate regulation, low restriction in moral policy.
Conservative: small state/individual responsibility/low corporate regulation, highly restrictive moral policy.
Populist: large state/social responsibility/corporate restrictive policy, highly restrictive moral policy.

Left and Right have a communist<->capitalist slant/connotation which means FTMP, liberals and populists are most left wing and libertarians and conservatives are more right wing. This is based on "corporate regulation". Either side may use democracy or dictatorship modes of government and there have been shifts in all modes within each "wing" over time. Communism technically is a point where the state is abolished and the survivors are one big happy tribe (but with anti-property ownership and corporate abolishment still in place) but it should be more "socialism"<->capitalism difference as most stereotypically communist countries were really going through stages of socialism but under more of a dictatorship of sorts but both socialism and communism restrict private corporate freedoms.

One game that teaches some politics is nationstates.net. After playing a while you notice a theme that there are three kinds of freedoms: civil, economic and political. Civil includes your basic bill of rights. Economic includes policies giving people freedom to conduct market or even a bazaar or capitalism, Political includes voting ie: monarchy/despotic or republic/democracy. The CIA and other intelligence agencies conduct a lot of research into the relative liberties and statistics on countries in very similar manner, they also rate levels of corruption and major factions etc etc. ie: The CIA Worldbook. It's useful to note that most modern countries are nearly Anarchy or relatively free in all areas compared to third world countries which in Africa have a high degree of both violence and communism. Scandinavia is a different kind of socialist country and relies heavily on very peculiar factors to survive. The US is hardly a paragon of capitalism as there are restrictions on the laissez-faire kinds of market systems. We have yard sales but it's hard to get a blanket and go to a sidewalk downtown and sell stuff without a business license. Licensing is "restriction" and so we have a very limited level of economic freedom and limited levels of democracy as well. ie: we have a representative democracy.

Everything else I'm reading here seems highly spun and I try to be apolitical although lately, I'm a bit to the left a bit except on the issue of abortion. I'm very left on social programs and issues of sex but more right on porn censorship and perhaps abortion and free exercise of religion in public/municipal settings as long as there are no state mandated religiousness. I don't mind taking the word God out of money or pledge but I do mind a student getting detention if they chose to pray in class or before a test or onstage as an individual (not group led per se) at say some loose "on stage" assembly or bring a bible/religious text to school.



NeantHumain
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02 Nov 2005, 1:38 pm

In my opinion, there's really not much difference between the left and the right wings of the bird. I really don't go for either of them; I prefer the breast. We were talking about chicken, right?



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02 Nov 2005, 3:58 pm

The thing is, in most of the western world left wing politics is a forgotten philosophy. Right wing capitalism has eclipsed policies that should be 'for the good of the state'.

Now some of you seem to be from elsewhere but certainly in the UK we have slowly lost all left wing ideals as the traditional socialists, 'old' labour, have become 'new labour'. This excuse for a political party is destroying people's lives as, far from trying to develop a healthy state with a system of care and mutual access, it just establishes a near dictatorship of capitalist logic.

The logic of new labour, as I see it, goes something like this:
Capitalism means that everyone has a right to be different. This extends everywhere and means people cannot judge themselves in relation to anyone else, and understand values such as what is right, wrong, and true. People just think there is some omnipresent bank of values to conform to. These are the corrupt standards of new labour and we feel them everywhere; we have a constant obsession with material wealth, lifestyle, other complete crap like that. We are measured by just that which allows us to be a capitalist citizen; our career. That is all that matters anymore, because it is what allows us to keep the economy going, by way of our expenditure on these meaningless gadgets and lifestyles!
All people know is the 'values' of the government-- but they don't understand them in their own terms, so cannot see how they themselves have a value, a worthwile existence, in society. Do expressions like 'Why have I got this job?' mean anything to you? I myslef fail to see what is the ultimate point in me doing my A levels when the qualifications which are ultimately most highly valued are tose which can earn you the most money.
]

ULTIMATELY I just want to yell, 'not everyone can be rich, and a society of workaholics is a society of monsters.
That pretty much sums up my frustration with the present political situation.
To the extent that I would turn to facism, or try it, as something which can make us think about the state.

FACISM FOREVER



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02 Nov 2005, 4:25 pm

worsedale wrote:
To the extent that I would turn to facism, or try it, as something which can make us think about the state.

FACISM FOREVER


8O


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RobertN
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02 Nov 2005, 4:42 pm

I don't quite understand the meaning or intent of your last 3 lines, worsedale, but I agree with the rest of it. New Labour is a moral shambles and I think Tony Blair should stand trial for treason. I also sympathise with your issues of the materialistic society that is obsessed with career-status and meaningless qualifications!! :twisted:



worsedale
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02 Nov 2005, 4:58 pm

To clarify, I tend to make some extreme points when I'm angry. I sincerely hope I'm not a facist and I am probably inherently left wing. But New Labour :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:



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02 Nov 2005, 7:23 pm

worsedale wrote:
To clarify, I tend to make some extreme points when I'm angry. I sincerely hope I'm not a facist and I am probably inherently left wing. But New Labour :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


Wouldn't you know whether or not you are facist or left-wing? :? They are not the same at all. Facism is a on the right-wing extreme.



hylander
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02 Nov 2005, 8:35 pm

Uhm, FaScism is neither left nor extreme right or whatever you are calling it. Look up the definition. Here's one:

"A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. "

If anything, stringent economic controls and dictatorship is more like old left wing. Antisemitism also seems to have shifted sides and racial equality is not an issue for many considered far right given a lot of black politicians who are right wing or libertarians.

To be fair, it's really neither and that type of comment is just straw and paint if not a pot with it's own stains. Most political pundits try to associate everything with Hitler and white supremacy as a ploy which is like trying to associate all communism with "Mother Russia" as someone else here noted.



Assassin
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08 Nov 2005, 9:04 am

hecate wrote:
Assassin wrote:
RobertN wrote:
Not everyone should have the same level of wealth either. Better some poor than all poor. I like having the opportunity to strive for wealth and success. Socialism is "let's all be poor together!" No thanks.


Better all a bit poor than some struggling to survive


*looks out of window to check for pigs flying past*

lowfreq50 wrote that quote- not RobertN.


oops sorry robert...


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