Crazy Christian Lady on Homosexuality

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What do you care? I thought you were a moral nihilist.

[quote="Ancalagon]By saying "still be", you're assuming that it is one now, which is debatable.

Most Christians who are against homosexuality are actually against homosexual acts, rather than the orientation itself. Assuming that homosexuality is wrong the question reduces to: if you had a genetic predisposition to stealing, does that mean stealing's okay? After all, you can control your actions, even if you can't control your impulse.

I'd generally consider anyone who's against the orientation to be ignorant or stupid.[/quote]

I said "still be" mainly because mainline Christian sects do consider it a sin. This is not my own personal opinion. I strongly suspect that the straight/gay continuum is genetic to a great degree and have noted that it isn't necessarily an all or nothing orientation. All people are deserving of unconditional love because they are human beings. Period. If we begin to judge them based on what we perceive as a sin, we forget that all sin carried the exact same price, and therefore is equal in its cost and in its wrongness. How many of us are willing to be judged as harshly as we judge those we know who are gay/lesbian/bisexual/transsexual?

IMHO, the only time that we should judge should be for discernment for the safety of our families. I would not be likely to allow a known pedophile to sleep over in my kid's room. That's just common sense. There's a difference between that and the sort of judgement that's been seen in some of these posts.

Judith

A moral nihilist can still have a concern about good theology, can't he? I was not arguing outside of the Christian logic, but only within it, as noted by the statement "Now, we can argue that Christianity is wrong". Christianity presupposes morality, so, to say "considering homosexuality to be immoral is much more established" can be a correct statement no matter who says it so long as they aren't an epistemic nihilist or a metaphysical nihilist or something of that sort, as I never invoked morality by saying "established" only correct hermeneutic.

This article made the fury rise in me. [sarcasm]How large of her to consider gays human![/sarcasm] This is one of the reasons I really dislike Christianity. It causes so much hate, sadness, and pain. There is no good reason for such harm to occur. So many gays die from hate crimes and suicide because of bigotry.

yes

your comments have made a fury rise in me.

Christiany has been the greatest force for good in history. All the wonderful things in Western society( rule of law, indiviudual rigths, respect for the human person, tolerance, forgivness) arouse out of Christiany)

source
Dinesh D'souza Whats so great about Christiany

and most hate crimes are faked, and the sucide rate for homesexuals is extremely high in places such as holland that have completely accepted the practise.

your confusing the dispensalist types that got their divinty degree from a mail order school with the geniune church

you forget the defination of bigotry is zealousy holding to a opinon you do not agree with.

So who is this guy and whay should anyone believe him? Did he die on a cross or something?

are you refering to me, D'nesh D'souza, or Jesus Christ

I think Christians have forgotten who it is that they worship.

Jesus was the Son of God. Therefore everything that He said can be considered the Word of God. Notably, He never said anything about homosexuality, either positive or negative. We do know that He befriended Mary Magdalene, a prostitute, and rebuked his apostles for criticizing her.

Paul was not the Son of God. He never met Jesus, never heard Him speak, never even saw Him. He was an anti-Christian bigot who reportedly had a change-of-heart, and became a pro-Christian bigot. Those who take Paul's word over the Word of God are worshiping a false prophet.

the idea of mary mageldene being a prostitute comes from a mideaval pope. Nothing in the gospels mention the prostitute being mary magedelen.

I had highlighted the name D'nesh D'souza to make it obvious as to whom I referred.

he is a big tiem conservative activist and writer recently published a book detailling the achievenments of Christianity and it contributions to western civilation challenging Christiopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins and their ilk.

But that depends on how you define those offences, too.

Murder back then simply meant the killing of another member of the Hebrew nation (it's blindingly obvious from other parts of the Old Testament that killing people from the surrounding 'filthy heathen' nations was perfectly OK if God told you to.) And adultery meant a married woman sleeping with another man, or a man sleeping with a married woman. The marital status of the man meant nothing, as has been the case for adultery laws throughout most human cultures in history, because adultery was a property crime - a man ruining another man's property, i.e. 'his' woman, by possibly impregnating her and therefore casting doubt on the paternity of the kids he'd be raising. The same applied to sex before marriage - for a female only - it was making a girl worth less to her dad, who legally owned her and would get good money for her on her marriage if she were a virgin.

Similarly, you have to look at the cultural context to see what the ban on homosexuality was actually all about. Most references to 'homosexuality' in the Bible, more likely than not, don't refer to what we today would call a gay relationship. Complicated, but more here:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

What I find slightly annoying is when I hear Christians say, in justification of their sexual rules, 'God intended for sex to be an act of love within marriage between one man and one woman...' when our very idea of marriage as a relationship based on love, rather than a financial transaction between a man and a girl's father, only came into existence very recently. Have rules if you want to, but please don't give them modern justification when they actually originate in a very primitive culture indeed, and had a totally different meaning to the one you give them.

Anyway...my main response to that article was...how very sad. For the son, yes, but also for the mother. Because, there must be a real agony of a struggle going on in her heart and mind. When you deeply believe in a God who will forever reject your own flesh and blood, your child (or regard the child as having rejected him, it's the same thing) for being the person he is...you either have to come down on one side or the other, reject God or reject your son...or you have to compartmentalize yourself to a degree I can't even imagine. Unless he changes his persuasion, and he's highly unlikely to - those schemes for 'curing' homosexuality have a success rate of virtually nil, even if he wanted to change - she's going to live the rest of her life trying to deal with that.

First thought on reading this article is that God is just, because the mother will die just like everyone else, her beliefs with her. So reading down through various takes on this, I came across

To all those who ragged on her for being a despicable bigot, and in the same breath condemned her for her religion -- try taking the plank out of your own eye first, before offering to help someone with the speck in their eye. Be careful not to be a bigot yourself.

Second thought: Hardly a speck, is it? Having removed the plank, it is obvious that hating unrepentant bigots for being bigots is very different from hating someone based on gender, race, religion, nationality, or sexual orientation. Just minds hate bigotry, and by extension hold accountable those that spread it to others. Were a leader to come to power that would round up and execute all the bigots, regardless of flavor, my support would end with my life. There is no room in a global civilization for schism along biological lines.

No, they have not forgotten ... most worship their religions, rather than their God.

I unfortunately have to agree, much to the dismay of straight Christians here. I was raised a strict Catholic, and let me tell you, they HATE gays, I know what I'm talking about, I'm still dealing with how much crap I took from being gay in a Christian setting. After I came out, my mother didn't speak to me for over two years and forbade me to ever enter in a church again, because, as she said, the rules are the rules, "Though shalt not lie with another man", so I was basically dead to her for a long time, and my father hasn't spoken to me in years, he's an Italian Catholic, and can't even look at me in the eye. This astonishing lack of tolerance and active hatred towards their only son is absolutely fueled by their religion. Even our priest told me there was no room for me anymore in church, for fear I might lead other boys astray (!). I still remember his exact words: "Michel, you're a very good looking boy, and you might lead other boys into temptation". Do you know how horrible that makes a sensitive and impressionable sixteen year old feel, completely rejected by all who previously seemed to love you and that you trusted? Lonely, depressed, confused, full of shame and guilt for something that's completely out of my control, something that I was born with and can't change? Might as well hate me and throw me out because my eyes are brown. What, are they afraid they'll catch gay by being near me?

So yeah, don't talk to me about how wonderful Christianity is and how loving Christians are.

"We spread love as long as you are one of us and follow our rigid rules" seems to be the motto for Christians. Of course, of course if you're straight and even better if you're family oriented, Christianity will embrace you and you'll be led to believe how wonderful and loving it is, how it is a necessity in your life, how it helps mankind, how it will absolutely fill all the voids in your empty life and make you happy and how it will ultimately save your soul and direct you to Heaven.

What a big bag of bul$&*#t.

I've grown since then. Now, even when someone says to me "I accept you even though you're gay", I'm like "F#&k you, either you like me completely, or take a hike". There's absolutely no room for subtle or hidden bigotry in my life. Sorry if this offends Christians, I'm sure you're nice law abiding people, but this is my experience and I relate to the article in many ways.