# The nature of god

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What god(s) do you think most probable to exist?
 Personal, separate from the universe, singular 20% [ 5 ] Impersonal, separate from the universe, singular 12% [ 3 ] Personal, same as the universe, singular 8% [ 2 ] Impersonal, same as the universe, singular 4% [ 1 ] Personal, separate from the universe, multiple 4% [ 1 ] Impersonal, separate from the universe, multiple 4% [ 1 ] Gods are impossible 20% [ 5 ] I don't know what category you fall in, AG, but you are god 4% [ 1 ] Uncertain 16% [ 4 ] Other 8% [ 2 ]

Sand
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13 Sep 2008, 12:40 pm

All it means, speaking linguistically is that zero equals one zero. It may also mean zero equals an infinity of zeros but what the hell, an infinity of zeros is no bigger than one zero.

Awesomelyglorious
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13 Sep 2008, 12:41 pm

Phagocyte wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
No, actually you get 1.

That's not correct. You cannot divide by zero, that's a rule. I've literally just started taking calculus and when the professor covered functions he specifically mentioned that 0/0 =/= 1. If the numerator is the same as the denominator, it is always one except for when it's zero.

I am joking as can be seen by this comment: "... and now everybody will wonder who taught me math."

greenblue
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13 Sep 2008, 12:50 pm

Well, what slowmutant said, "removing God from.... left with God", how that could mathematically be implied?

1 - Infinite = -Infinite ?

I admit I am terrible at math

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Phagocyte
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13 Sep 2008, 1:04 pm

Sand wrote:
All it means, speaking linguistically is that zero equals one zero. It may also mean zero equals an infinity of zeros but what the hell, an infinity of zeros is no bigger than one zero.

But the answer could be infinity because that's the possible value; zero would go into zero infinity times.

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chever
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13 Sep 2008, 1:08 pm

Sand wrote:
But the zero rule only applies when you're dividing something by zero. Does it apply if you're dividing nothing by zero?

Yes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27H%C3%B4pital%27s_rule

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greenblue
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13 Sep 2008, 1:09 pm

I wonder, does infinity actually exist, or is it just a concept?

If infinity exist, God must exist, would be an argument some might say, but does God = infinity? would be Infinity the nature of God rather than a personal god?

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chever
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13 Sep 2008, 1:14 pm

greenblue wrote:
I wonder, does infinity actually exist, or is it just a concept?

It's not a number. Here's why:

1 + inf = inf
1 + inf - inf = inf - inf
1 = 0

So infinity ruins arithmetic and really isn't a number. It is used with limits a lot though.

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slowmutant
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13 Sep 2008, 8:00 pm

Infinity is a concept, and it does exist.

Sand
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13 Sep 2008, 8:18 pm

Well, that settles that! Now, about God....

twoshots
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13 Sep 2008, 9:18 pm

chever wrote:
greenblue wrote:
I wonder, does infinity actually exist, or is it just a concept?

It's not a number. Here's why:

1 + inf = inf
1 + inf - inf = inf - inf
1 = 0

So infinity ruins arithmetic and really isn't a number. It is used with limits a lot though.

There are many other versions of mathematical infinity which do not treat it as a potential infinity. Various transfinite numbers (alephs, beths, omegas) deal with infinite sets, and I believe the hyperreal numbers contain an infinity. The transfinite cardinals in particular I find a good expression of my intuition of an infinite "number".

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chever
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13 Sep 2008, 9:51 pm

twoshots wrote:
There are many other versions of mathematical infinity which do not treat it as a potential infinity. Various transfinite numbers (alephs, beths, omegas) deal with infinite sets, and I believe the hyperreal numbers contain an infinity. The transfinite cardinals in particular I find a good expression of my intuition of an infinite "number".

Hm, interesting. I looked into your post and found aleph null and aleph one, for example, some things I was already familiar with, but didn't know the names for (cardinality of countably and uncountably infinite sets, respectively). But, again, I wouldn't consider them to be numbers per se, but concepts. I can't use these alephs in the way that I would use any number. Since my mathematical interests are mostly very 'down to Earth' minus the thing I have for abstract algebra, I really can't speak for all those other infinities at the moment.

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twoshots
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13 Sep 2008, 10:05 pm

chever wrote:
twoshots wrote:
There are many other versions of mathematical infinity which do not treat it as a potential infinity. Various transfinite numbers (alephs, beths, omegas) deal with infinite sets, and I believe the hyperreal numbers contain an infinity. The transfinite cardinals in particular I find a good expression of my intuition of an infinite "number".

Hm, interesting. I looked into your post and found aleph null and aleph one, for example, some things I was already familiar with, but didn't know the names for (cardinality of countably and uncountably infinite sets, respectively).

To be precise, all alephs greater than aleph null are cardinalities of uncountably infinite sets. The only countable infinity, I'm pretty sure, is aleph null. The only really familiar uncountable infinity that I can think of is the cardinality of the continuum; is that what you were thinking of?
Quote:
But, again, I wouldn't consider aleph null to be a number per se, but a concept.

I think that's kind of hair splitting. Intuitively, numbers deal with cardinalities and ordinalities. I think the aleph numbers are actually more satisfactory than the complex numbers, even if the ability to perform operations with them is very limited.

(Although, simply in terms of definitions, I prefer the Beth numbers, which are just transfinite cardinals defined recursively in terms of power sets)

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