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Thagomizer
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02 Dec 2005, 2:47 pm

Mary Magdeline was certainly close to Jesus, but I don't think she was his lover. It's not because I find this idea blasphemous, heretical, or anything like that, but it just seems to be wishful thinking on behalf of all of those conspiracy theorist nuts who like to think evil of Catholicism.

The main reason I don't think Jesus would have married? For one, he was not a 'rabbi', but a rogue preacher for his time. In the jewish world, it was not only nerdy for a guy not to be married, but disastrous. Jesus not being married kind of ties in with his philosophy of self-abnegation (there are hints about this in the gospels, but I can't give you a specific quote at the moment). His belief was that salvation and unity with God came not through the formal sacraments like marraige, but from within and, more importantly, his own role in Christianity. This has a lot to do with why priests do not marry. In fact, I think he's more admirable for not marrying if this is the case. He respected women, but still didn't need one to be self-actualized.

Though I must say that they need to change this rule sometime soon, or start ordaining women, or they will find themselves at a drastic loss in their ranks.


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kevv729
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04 Dec 2005, 4:08 am

Mary Magdalene to Me was not lover or wife.

Jesus might have been a bachelor but he was a man and would have been respected for being a man even by the Jewish married men. We have to remember Jesus had a higher calling. That was to His Father and God. That is what was more important for us all to be redeemed by Jesus for all of mankind in the end. For He did the Will of His Father and God. For in the end that was more important than being married.


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06 Dec 2005, 11:31 pm

Sophist wrote:
Yes, I have heard Mary Magdalene was too high up in the ranks of society to have likely been stoned. And that it never mentioned her directly in the passage about the prostitute. But the Catholics have always feared Mary Magdalene. She was likely Jesus' lover if not more likely his wife. Jewish men would have not respected the words and ideas of a bachelor.

Therefore, priests should be allow to marry. :)


Snort. :roll: This is another one of those conspiracy type theories that I find laughable. Ascribing to Da vinci Code type theories is rediculous, as they are not historically or culturally supportable.


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sephardic-male
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09 Dec 2005, 3:30 pm

kevv729 wrote:
sephardic-male wrote:
kevv729 wrote:
The

Sadducees

and

Pharisee(s)

Are the ones thought themselves (perfect before God) though they where just self-righteous (in God eyes). this could go for all You questions I truly think.


the Sadducess where the wealthy caless that kiss the rear ends of the romans and attack dissident Jews while the Pharisees represent the common people and preserve the laws of Judaism
Pharisees may of lived by the Law and did all of the Law. But the despised the common person as well did Sadducees and Scribes also did.

Pharisees could not look beyond the Law to give it meaning to the common people and truly how to live life for God for Israel as a nation it was along ago. Just read Luke 18:9-14, that is a good illustration how the Pharisees saw the common people.


the NT section of christian bibles is biased against Judaism here is some of the teachings of the Pharisees

Be deliberate in Judgement (Mishnah, Avot 1:1): Judges must take care that even if they have judged similar cases two or three times before, they must take care in deliberating before issuing a ruling. ("Justice, Justice, shall you pursue" Deut. 16:20)

The world stands on three things on the Torah, on the service [of G-d], and upon acts of loving-kindness. (Mishnah, Avot 1:2)

How to be a servant of G-d Antigonus...used to say "Be not as servants who serve the master [ie G-d] for the sake of receiving [even a token] reward, but rather, be like servants who serve the master not for the sake of receiving reward; and [nonetheless] the fear [or awe] of Heaven should be upon you." (Mishnah, Avot 1:3) What does this mean? It does not mean that we will not be rewarded ever (Zaddok and and Boethus mistakenly thought this, and started two new sects, rejecting the Oral Law. Zaddok founded the Sadducees, and Boethus founded Boethusim). I means that we should do G-d's will because it is G-d's will, and not for the sake of reward.

Treatment of the poor Yose ben Yochanan...say: "Let your house be open wide [ie for guests, hopitality, anyone in need]; treat the poor as members of your household..." (Mishnah, Avot 1:5)

Judge everyone favorably This was said by Yehoshua ben Perachyah in Mishnah, Avot 1:6. It means that we should not jump to conclusions, but think the best of a person about whom we do not know all the facts. If something looks as if a person is doing something bad, we must assume that there is something we do not yet know, and find out the facts.

Hillel says: "Be among the disciples of Aaron, loving peace and pursuing peace, loving people and bringing them closer to the Torah" (Mishnah, Avot 1:12) Hillel may have still been alive when Jesus was born, since he lived in the time of Herod "the Great"

Note: The above quotes from Mishnah, Avot all come from The Pirkei Avos/Ethics of Fathers Treasury: the Sages' Guide to Living. Art Scroll, 1996

Of splinters and beams Rabbi Yochanan, quoting a saying from the judges (the same judges the book of Judges talks about), said (after the destruction of the Second Temple) "If [a judge] would say to [a defendant], 'Remover the splinter from between your teeth (ie refrain from a minor infraction),' [the defendent] would retort to [the judge], 'Remove the beam from before your eyes [ie refrain from a major transgression]'" (Talmud, Bava Batra 15b3, Art Scroll translation)

http://www.geocities.com/alyzab/Jewish/Pharisee.html



psych
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10 Dec 2005, 11:45 am

....an ANARCHIST!

Quote:
Christian Anarchists take seriously Jesus' words to his followers that "kings and governors have domination over men; let there be none like that among you." Similarly, Paul's dictum that there "is no authority except God" is taken to its obvious conclusion with the denial of state authority within society. Thus, for a true Christian, the state is usurping God's authority and it is up to each individual to govern themselves and discover that (to use the title of Tolstoy's famous book) The Kingdom of God is within you.

Similarly, the voluntary poverty of Jesus, his comments on the corrupting effects of wealth and the Biblical claim that the world was created for humanity to be enjoyed in common have all been taken as the basis of a socialistic critique of private property and capitalism. Indeed, the early Christian church (which could be considered as a liberation movement of slaves, although one that was later co-opted into a state religion) was based upon communistic sharing of material goods, a theme which has continually appeared within radical Christian movements (indeed, the Bible would have been used to express radical libertarian aspirations of the oppressed, which, in later times, would have taken the form of anarchist or Marxist terminology)


http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secA3.html#seca37



Laz
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10 Dec 2005, 3:03 pm

....A super mario brother



TheViking
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19 Dec 2005, 7:15 pm

i dont think jesus exicited


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kevv729
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30 Dec 2005, 7:46 pm

sephardic-male and to any others:

The Pharisees did follow the Law of God that was set down by God through Moses. They did it well.

But they did look down on the common people the people they themselves were supose to serve on behalf of them for God. (read Luke 18:9-14; John 7:47-49)

Pharisees burden the common people and make themselves more important than the common man or woman. (read Matthew 23:2-7)

They themselves just looked down on the common people just like Sadducees and Scribes did also too.

Also Pharisees, Sadducees, and Scribes tried to intimidate Jesus and His Followers. (read the Gospels)

I would have responded earlier but I have had some computer problems to solve.


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eamonn
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30 Dec 2005, 7:53 pm

......a Jew!



Namiko
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30 Dec 2005, 8:07 pm

eamonn wrote:
......a Jew!


Umm, thank you for pointing out the obvious. I think everyone who believes he existed can agree with that. Now, can we get somewhere with the Mary Magdelene thing?

Regardless of what the da Vinci code may have said, Leonardo da Vinci was only painting his interpretation of the scene... he wasn't there when the Last Supper took place. I mean, why would everyone be sitting on one side of the table? I would think they'd all be sitting around the table, rather than in one straight line, staring at the wall...

There is also a part in one of Paul's letters where he is talking about how he thinks that it would be neat of no one had to marry, so that they could devote their love and attention to the Church. Perhaps this is what Jesus did, much like the apostle Paul.

A bit off-topic: Kevv, I think the Pharisees followed the Law a bit too well. If you read the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus seems to be aiming the story at criticising those who are legalistically religious, like the older son, rather than only criticising those who turn from Christianity for a short time like the younger son. Just some food for thought...


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TheViking
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30 Dec 2005, 8:34 pm

....nothing


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eamonn
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30 Dec 2005, 8:39 pm

.....a nice bedtime story!



kevv729
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30 Dec 2005, 8:57 pm

Namiko wrote:
A bit off-topic: Kevv, I think the Pharisees followed the Law a bit too well. If you read the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus seems to be aiming the story at criticising those who are legalistically religious, like the older son, rather than only criticising those who turn from Christianity for a short time like the younger son. Just some food for thought...
That is what I been saying I think.

What truly matters to God is the Heart of a man or woman of a Person.

That is what Jesus is pointing out in the parable and when He criticizes them also too.


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TheViking
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30 Dec 2005, 9:11 pm

.....a tall tale


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I won't be force fed prophecies
From a book of untruths for the weakest mind
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I know why your prayers will never be answered


kevv729
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30 Dec 2005, 9:27 pm

eamonn wrote:
......a Jew!
So eamonn what do You mean by this I just have to ask.


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eamonn
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30 Dec 2005, 10:16 pm

A person of Jewish origin. Like, duh.