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anarkhos
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15 Dec 2005, 10:37 pm

RobertN wrote:
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The same reason X number of people can afford a $40,000 car.


I certainly can't afford a $40,000 car!! ! :roll:


Neither can I, but the question is if you understand why the price is $40,000.



anarkhos
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15 Dec 2005, 10:45 pm

Mithrandir wrote:
"And that's Medicare! Medicare regulations have screwed everything up from top to bottom!"

Medicare is Canadian, Medicaid is US. This forum isn't to go after people for small mistakes though. (ie just to clarify)


http://www.medicare.gov/

Boy is your face red. Perhaps you should do some research as I have.

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We both agree on one thing, health. If society has a healthy population and a healthy environment to live then people will reap the rewards.


A healthy population and clean environment are ends in themselves. The question is how best to attain them. Socialized medicine like what Tommy is demanding will accomplish the opposite.

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Why will corporations attempt to help the environment if they get more profits by using oil?
Why will corporations help those in poverty if they get more profits from helping the rich?


Why are these even questions?

You know who is the #1 polluter in this country? The government. That shouldn't surprise anyone.

What lands are polluted the most and mismanaged the worst? Public lands. That shouldn't surprise anyone either.

Who steals from the poor and gives to the rich? The Federal Reserve System. To understand why I suggest reading the VERY non-technical book, "The Mystery of Banking" which can be downloaded online:
Click here for PDF



Mithrandir
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16 Dec 2005, 1:15 am

The reason why I asked those questions is because it is in a companies self interest to not worry about the poor and get proffit as much as they can.

It is one thing to make a scapegoat out of government and try to change the system.
It is a completely different thing to suggest a system that can better both sides.

I am glad you showed me http://www.medicare.gov/
because here is another one http://www.health.state.ny.us/health_care/medicaid/
So that means both medicaid and medicare are US systems interesting.
The Canadian system only has medicare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(Canada)
I like this one too: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/index_e.html

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Boy is your face red. Perhaps you should do some research as I have.

not really but I like the look of your face :wink:

You keep saying "do some research like I have"
Can you show us what reasearch that is, please?

What did government do to you to distrust the American system?


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anarkhos
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16 Dec 2005, 1:40 am

Mithrandir wrote:
What did government do to you to distrust the American system?


Trust has nothing to do with it.

If you want further explanation I have given plenty of citations already.



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16 Dec 2005, 11:27 am

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Neither can I, but the question is if you understand why the price is $40,000.


In our country, under the NHS, it is free. I don't see where you are coming up with $40,000. :?



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16 Dec 2005, 1:18 pm

robertN, What percentage of your gross income do you pay in taxes? Do you have a sales tax? What does your proptery taxes run?


Just wondering, because Ive come to the conclusion that nothing is ever free......



anarkhos
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16 Dec 2005, 9:10 pm

RobertN wrote:
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Neither can I, but the question is if you understand why the price is $40,000.


In our country, under the NHS, it is free. I don't see where you are coming up with $40,000. :?


1) Mithrandir came up with the $40,000 figure. Silly me to assume you're reading this thread.

2) NHS isn't free. Nothing scarce is free. Our resources are limited.

3) The reason I harp on the $40,000 figure is nobody else on this thread seems to have any idea how prices come into being in the first place!

I find it hard to maintain this conversation because of this dearth of economic understanding. Not to sound condescending, but it seems to you people that the only thing poor people lack is money. This simply ISN'T TRUE! You can't perform heart transplants with money any more than you can drink it. You can't heal people with other commodities either. Redistributing existing wealth isn't going to increase the number of heart transplants which can be performed each year; it will do the exact opposite!



ed
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17 Dec 2005, 9:37 am

Money isn't everything, for sure, but a LACK of money is. Redistributing wealth is good, especially in these days, when wealthy people are getting much richer, at the expense of everybody else. Without redistribution, there will be revolution, and the wealthy won't just give up a little, they'll lose everything, possibly including their lives.

It is also the CHRISTIAN thing to do. Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself." He also said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."



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17 Dec 2005, 10:29 am

who said anything about religion? :wink:



ed
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17 Dec 2005, 10:51 am

I put that in there to suggest that redistribution of wealth is also a moral imperative, at least for that vast majority of America's wealthiest citizens who "profess and call themselves Christians."



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17 Dec 2005, 1:21 pm

but it is doubtful that they would want to give up anything in an effort to "redistribute" the wealth....



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17 Dec 2005, 2:22 pm

Ladysmokeater wrote:
robertN, What percentage of your gross income do you pay in taxes? Do you have a sales tax? What does your proptery taxes run?


Just wondering, because Ive come to the conclusion that nothing is ever free......


I don't pay anything because I am living on state benefits. Under our system, those who can afford it pay through taxes.

£0 - £2,000 pay 0%
£2,000 - £32,000 pay 22%
£32,000 and above pay 40%


These are the UK rates of Income Tax. An additional 50% tax rate for those earning over £100,000 is a proposed measure by the Liberal Democrats (of which I am an active member) to tax the wealthy a bit extra.



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17 Dec 2005, 2:28 pm

Ladysmokeater wrote:
but it is doubtful that they would want to give up anything in an effort to "redistribute" the wealth....


Then they aren't Christians then, are they! :roll:



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17 Dec 2005, 3:25 pm

RobertN wrote:
Ladysmokeater wrote:
robertN, What percentage of your gross income do you pay in taxes? Do you have a sales tax? What does your proptery taxes run?


Just wondering, because Ive come to the conclusion that nothing is ever free......


I don't pay anything because I am living on state benefits. Under our system, those who can afford it pay through taxes.

£0 - £2,000 pay 0%
£2,000 - £32,000 pay 22%
£32,000 and above pay 40%


These are the UK rates of Income Tax. An additional 50% tax rate for those earning over £100,000 is a proposed measure by the Liberal Democrats (of which I am an active member) to tax the wealthy a bit extra.


Ok maybe Im an idiot.... but what is that in US dollars? Does this include local taxes as well? Do yall have a sales tax?



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17 Dec 2005, 3:27 pm

RobertN wrote:
Ladysmokeater wrote:
but it is doubtful that they would want to give up anything in an effort to "redistribute" the wealth....


Then they aren't Christians then, are they! :roll:


LOL! most of those "christians" are the ones that want to rule by the book not by anyother way... lol :wink:

but seriously, religion doesnt account for the redist. of wealth.... At least I havent seen anything in the bible that was like that....



anarkhos
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17 Dec 2005, 4:35 pm

ed wrote:
Money isn't everything, for sure, but a LACK of money is.


My point was not that money is everything or nothing. My point is money itself doesn't create wealth, rather the saving and investing of money creates a capital structure which does.

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Redistributing wealth is good, especially in these days, when wealthy people are getting much richer, at the expense of everybody else.


By what logic are weathly people becoming richer at the expense of everyone else?

I might happen to agree with you, but I seriously doubt you understand how this is happening.

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Without redistribution, there will be revolution, and the wealthy won't just give up a little, they'll lose everything, possibly including their lives.


I hear this BS a lot, and yet the historical record says otherwise.

Most revolutions occur when people are liberated enough to see how poorly their king runs things. They occur out of specific grievances like taxes or institutional unemployment, caused by mismanagement from central planners.

Revolutions are not caused by an "Eat the Rich" mentality.

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It is also the CHRISTIAN thing to do. Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself." He also said "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."


Actually a correct translation is camel hair rope, but I digress...

I seriously doubt many would consider theft on a grand scale the Christian thing to do.